I am an atheist thread 4

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The Church is not teaching error. Some members of the church are teaching error. Some members seek the truth. Some members have itching ears for teachers that are of their own liking.

The Church and even the defective teachers within the Church are not the only teachers. Unfortunately, our society with its decadence and immorality also operates as a teacher.

Even if the Church had no defective teachers and all was being presented ideally, there would still be problems and there would still be those that remained ignorant. This is not a perfect world, and people have lots of problems.
 
You know the argument about God with an Atheist shouldn’t last longer than 5 seconds, “you believe in God? yes, I don’t, o ok.” But when you add the human to it, you add a whole set of emotions. And people become bias to their points of views.

If you don’t believe in God thats fine but if your going to ask why God does what he does and try to rationalize it, your wasting your time. For admitting to the possibility of an All knowing being all powerful and Omnipresent and then condemning its actions; it wouldn’t even be like a 4 yr old saying he knows better than his parents. Simply no comparison.
 
I think its Phooney’s signature that says Atheism means the disbelief of a deity.

But it seems the argument in this thread shifts to other things like going against the church which just leads you to belief, that they also are against the church. I think that most atheist wouldn’t call themselves Atheist if it wasn’t for attention. These are the same people that would tell a little kid there is no Santa. Ive heard a load of excuses since I joined this thread, about why they wanna argue with Catholics, some of them say they do it for fun to have a good laugh others do it because they say they want to learn, (learn how to annoy people that choose to live their life in peace with their beliefs). I think Atheist that come to argue their point are not true Atheists because true Atheists don’t come to these sites. People who come to this site to argue about the existence of a higher power are Agnostic; because only an agnostic would come here and argue with his reasons and hope to get disproved. An Atheist, has his mind made up already.

But hey I usually write a post like this after every time a new Atheist thread is made.
 
Pax said:
The Church is not teaching error. Some members of the church are teaching error. Some members seek the truth. Some members have itching ears for teachers that are of their own liking.
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I wasn’t so much talking about them teaching error. That is why I left all of my examples incorrect - the correct answer doesn’t matter to me (for this question). If the majority of Catholics believe, for instance, that Jesus was six feet tall, it doesn’t matter that the church has been teaching that he is 5’11", or 6’1’’. The result of the church’s teachings is demonstrated in what the parishoners have learned. If they see this result and continue to teach in the same manner, then it is clear that they are satisfied with having the majority believe that he was six feet even.
This is not all that important, Pax. If I can’t find a way to describe this to you, we can let it pass…perhaps I will find the words later. I feel like I am repeating myself and still not getting the message across.
 
You have repeated yourself…and that’s okay because my answers have been a little off center. As a result we are perhaps talking past one another. I’ll try answering differently.

I personally don’t find the problem to be in the material or even in the presentation. I sometimes see poor teachers and would agree that something needs to be done about this. The problem is, however, much bigger. Sociological trends demonstrate that the more material wealth a society has the less spiritual they become. They become more enamored with money and possessions than whatever comes next on their list of priorities.

The world and what’s in it compete against the Church as a person’s teacher. Television and other forms of media dominate the time of the average person. Most people devote little time to spiritual matters. If we surveyed Americans and asked them to list the amount of time that they spend on all of their activities we would find that television is at the top of the list and that reading the bible and learning their respective faith tradition is near the bottom. This is the current climate that gives competition to the development of spirituality in the individual. You cannot know something that you devote little or no time to. Those that are ignorant or misinformed are too busy and uninterested to be bothered by what the Church is offering them. They prefer the world and its fading attractions.

The bible explains it this way, “Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few.”

Having said all of that, I would also say that there exists a movement of energized Catholics that are faithful to the teachings of the Magesterium. This website and its forums are but one example of what I am talking about. There is light in the darkness, and hopefully more of us will awake from our slumber.
 
Pax said:
The world and what’s in it compete against the Church as a person’s teacher.
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Interesting that you say this, because they are both (according to your doctrine) creations of your god. The thing is that I think the universe is a much better work to study than one or another of the bibles, or one or another of the churches.
That is what I mean by my signature ‘The universe is a better bible’.
Pax said:
The bible explains it this way, “Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few.”
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Does this suggest that your god arranged the world so that most people would not make it into heaven? It sure sounds like it.
Pax said:
Having said all of that, I would also say that there exists a movement of energized Catholics that are faithful to the teachings of the Magesterium. This website and its forums are but one example of what I am talking about. There is light in the darkness, and hopefully more of us will awake from our slumber.
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I find that Catholics are a little more informed about what they believe (if internet forums are any indication) than the other major faiths which I have investigated, but the fact remains that there are many who misunderstand. (the hell that was taught to me is commonly believed in, as an example, while many say the church has the position that it is only ‘separation from god’)
 
everyone knows the Universe is governed by laws but I believe God defies them. God created the laws. Only my opinion.👍
 
Jonathan82 said:
everyone knows the Universe is governed by laws but I believe God defies them. God created the laws. Only my opinion.👍
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If you believe that a god defies these laws, what makes you believe that? Have you seen any evidence of this (by this I mean the kind available to any honest inquiry) or is it just that so many other people believe it that has you convinced?
 
_A said:
If you believe that a god defies these laws, what makes you believe that? Have you seen any evidence of this (by this I mean the kind available to any honest inquiry) or is it just that so many other people believe it that has you convinced?
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No but I would like to ask any Catholic out there that knows better than me. Does it say anywhere if he created everything even the Universe? and I’m not sure either does it say he makes the impossible possible? if so in theory he created the laws.

I’m just saying based on Catholic belief, it would seem he does. Maybe he is, above and beyond the laws. But its an idea.
 
Jonathan82 said:
everyone knows the Universe is governed by laws but I believe God defies them. God created the laws. Only my opinion.👍
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This is what you said. Not that ‘Catholics believe’, but that you believe. I asked why **you **believe.
Jonathan82 said:
No but I would like to ask any Catholic out there that knows better than me. Does it say anywhere if he created everything even the Universe? and I’m not sure either does it say he makes the impossible possible? if so in theory he created the laws.

I’m just saying based on Catholic belief, it would seem he does. Maybe he is, above and beyond the laws. But its an idea.
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I was not so much interested in the Catholic doctrine in this case as I was interested in your own reasons for believing as you do. Looking at this, it seems that you only believe it because you think the Catholics might believe it - there must be more to it, to make you yourself believe.
How did you start to believe this? It looks completely invented to me. (meaning there is not a bit of evidence supporting the notion of a creator god)
 
Its just an observation about scripture and the concept of faith. I truly don’t believe it, I made a mistake in saying so because I forgot I was in a thread were the word believe was exactly interpreted by definition lol.

I was in the shower one day (because in the shower is were I get most of my ideas) and I started thinking about laws and how everything needs laws and so the Universe uses laws, then I thought of something I heard from scripture, “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and give to God what is God’s. Now I thought was showing respect to laws in general. This would show he operates withing the laws and he teaches you to respect them, even though here I’m talking about a different law its still the same in general because laws allow you to do things and stop you from doing other. So this would only show he believes in laws, and maybe he also has to operate within laws. and then I remembered “The things which are impossible with men are possible with God” (Luke 18:2227). It’s impossible to make the impossible possible. God would have to make the impossible possible if he were going to make the impossible possible. He’d have to do it before he did it, which is impossible. So I he might have the power to change the laws, according to that.

hey I know I’m basing it on scripture but I mentioned that before this is an idea based on scripture alone so its just an idea.
 
A how about we work together and see if we can find evidence the catholic religion was just invented to keep people under control. I would like to know this myself, but whether it was or not more than likely will not disprove an existence of a God, but its a good start.
 
Jonathan82 said:
A how about we work together and see if we can find evidence the catholic religion was just invented to keep people under control. I would like to know this myself, but whether it was or not more than likely will not disprove an existence of a God, but its a good start.
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I don’t think so, because it (and religions in general) may have evolved as much as they have been created.
I think it is easy to find evidence that the RCC has taken steps to control people (like the latest list of ‘sins’ lol), also we can find plenty of evidence of things in the church which are considered ‘evil’ by church members (like the witch burnings, or pedophile priests). None of this shakes the faith of the faithful one bit.
The trouble is that evidence does not apply to this part of their lives.
 
_A said:
I don’t think so, because it (and religions in general) may have evolved as much as they have been created.
I think it is easy to find evidence that the RCC has taken steps to control people (like the latest list of ‘sins’ lol), also we can find plenty of evidence of things in the church which are considered ‘evil’ by church members (like the witch burnings, or pedophile priests). None of this shakes the faith of the faithful one bit.
The trouble is that evidence does not apply to this part of their lives.
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I would have to say that athiesm is actually what evolved and was created by man. The evidence of God and an intelligent creator is in everything in nature, even before any 'philosophy" came about concerning athiesm.

God reveals himself first through nature, therefore since nature came before any sort of athiestic thought, athiesm therefore was "invented’ by those wanting to say no to God and be self propelled, at least until their deathbed. 🙂
 
justinthemartyr said:
I would have to say that athiesm is actually what evolved and was created by man.
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To quote a sensible interpretation (hope you are having fun in Rome, phooney!) atheism is a lack of belief in a god, nothing more.
justinthemartyr said:
The evidence of God and an intelligent creator is in everything in nature, even before any 'philosophy" came about concerning athiesm.
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There is not one bit of evidence for a god or gods. Certainly none for a specific god.
justinthemartyr said:
God reveals himself first through nature, therefore since nature came before any sort of athiestic thought, athiesm therefore was "invented’ by those wanting to say no to God and be self propelled, at least until their deathbed. 🙂
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You keep preaching about your beliefs, and I guess to some that is admirable.
Got any evidence?
 
I have a question that I would like to ask. Why are so many Catholics so engrossed with statues, crosses, pictures of saints and suchlike?
Also, how is all that not idolatry?
 
These things are simply reminders, and they help bring to mind things that are of God. Pictures or statues of saints can remind us and help us focus on things that they did that can help inspire us to lead better lives by way of God’s grace.

If we were worshipping pictures and statues as if they were God, then we would, indeed, be involved in idolatry. Looking at a picture of a loved one is similar. No one loves the picture although they may find the picture to have great sentimental value. They instead love the person that is in the picture.

When we look upon the Lincoln Memorial we do not worship and adore Abe Lincoln. When sports figures are entered into the hall of fame, they are honored for their achievements, but no one is worshipping them as gods. Likewise, the saints are entered into what we look upon as the heavenly hall of fame and we honor them as our ancestors in Christ Jesus. We aspire to be with them as part of the body of Christ in heaven.

Anyone that worships and adores anything or puts anything ahead of God is involved in idolatry. This is not what Catholics are doing.
 
Pax said:
When we look upon the Lincoln Memorial we do not worship and adore Abe Lincoln. When sports figures are entered into the hall of fame, they are honored for their achievements, but no one is worshiping them as gods.
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If people knelt down and prayed to Abe, prayed novenas to him asking for special favors, said a rosary to him, alleged that statues of him bled, cried, smiled, …then people would say that they are worshiping Abe Lincoln!

ditto the sports figures.

Me, I’d pray to Abe!
 
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