I am an atheist thread 4

[Ronald_E]

A, I don’t know how to use quotes and I mixed up everything in the above message. Sorry.

 

[_A]

No worries. Enjoy your run.

 

[Ronald_E]

No worries. Enjoy your run.

I think this simple one will work. We’ll see. I am back from my run along the canal roads through the orchards. It came to mind during my run that years ago I wanted to start the “I Hate People Club”. I thought of this at the time because of something Siddartha said that went something like this, “We have to know our hate before we can love.” Since that time many years ago I have tried to be an expert on my own hate.
Then when I began to look at the old testament I began to realize that these stories were there TO TELL US WHAT NOT TO DO.
I began to realize that I did not hate Christianity but I did hate Christians who had never explored their own unresolved hatred.
Another thing idea from the recesses of my mind was the existential statement that anyone who is self-aware will live in a constant state of anxiety because she or he will see the fragility of being human and the danger of living with other humans who do not have that sensitivity to life.

 

[Ronald_E]

One other thing A, I am sorry for attacking you with my unresolved hatred that existed long before you came into being.

 

[_A]

I think this simple one will work. We’ll see. I am back from my run along the canal roads through the orchards. It came to mind during my run that years ago I wanted to start the “I Hate People Club”. I thought of this at the time because of something Siddartha said that went something like this, “We have to know our hate before we can love.” Since that time many years ago I have tried to be an expert on my own hate.
Then when I began to look at the old testament I began to realize that these stories were there TO TELL US WHAT NOT TO DO.

Might as well toss it then. I would have known just fine, even without reading it, that it was wrong to commit genocide. I know that it is wrong to hold the child responsible for the crimes of the father. I know that killing all of humanity in a fit of juvenile rage can not be redressed by pretty rainbows.
The old testament does show us what not to do. Since it is so wrong, why treat it like an authority of some kind. It is no more than old stories. Same for the New Testament.

One other thing A, I am sorry for attacking you with my unresolved hatred that existed long before you came into being.

I am not too worried about attacks on here - as a brilliant philosopher once said, “Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don’t matter and those who matter wont mind”.

 

[Ronald_E]

A, My Mother-in-Law just sent me a new book entitled Three Cups of Tea. It is a true story about a mountain climber from Montana who failed in his K2 attempt in '93. After his failure he got to know some people in a remote village and their humanity inspired him so much that he returned to help build schools which was there best defense against terrorist recruiters. The education was especially helpful to the girls in the development of their identity as being of value in this life. I just started reading it and I have a new hero. I am nothing compared to this human being.
You have the motto that the universe is a better bible. Think about this and tell me what you think.
I have come to the awareness that women bring love into this world and they have the ability to love unselfishly. Men influence them to go into hiding and as a consequence they never really are able to know who they truly are. If we as men learn to love from their perspective we can begin to create a better world.

 

[_A]

A, My Mother-in-Law just sent me a new book entitled Three Cups of Tea. It is a true story about a mountain climber from Montana who failed in his K2 attempt in '93. After his failure he got to know some people in a remote village and their humanity inspired him so much that he returned to help build schools which was there best defense against terrorist recruiters. The education was especially helpful to the girls in the development of their identity as being of value in this life. I just started reading it and I have a new hero. I am nothing compared to this human being.
You have the motto that the universe is a better bible. Think about this and tell me what you think.

Well, I mainly have that as my signature as an open question to those who think that the bible is somehow more correct than the universe around them.
If your god made the universe, then why accept the words in a man-made book which contradict the observed universe?
I think that giving is one of the big secrets to solving problems.
I call ‘love’ acting in someone elses interests (briefly). This seems to align well with the failed mountaineer and his next step.

I have come to the awareness that women bring love into this world and they have the ability to love unselfishly.

This sounds like pure nonsense. You are using ‘love’ as if it is something easily defined and agreed upon - it almost never is. You suggest that they have the ability to ‘love’ unselfishly, but by my definition, there is no other way to love. Men can be selfish, so can women. Women can be unselfishly loving, so can men.

Men influence them to go into hiding

?? What? I am a man and I do not. You are a little too liberal with generalizations here.

and as a consequence they never really are able to know who they truly are.

You have checked with all men, have you?

If we as men learn to love from their perspective we can begin to create a better world.

Another error - there is not a group called ‘men’ that is organized and in concert. It is just a bunch of people you are talking about. I also know some women who would be offended by being discriminated against sexually, which is what you are doing here.

 

[Pier]

*sigh

Ronald E -

Speaking as a female of the species, I’m not offended in the least by what you have said…

And to Mr. A…

So, you’re an expert on women? Are your statements based on your observations in your expansive corner of your particular universe?

What exactly are your credentials on speaking up for women? Are you claiming to be an expert by way of mind reading?

You’re not a woman, so now there are two things you’re not an expert on - God, Who you don’t believe in, and women, the gender of which you are not…

And now a question for you:

Do you think it would be possible for you to refrain from continuing to rudely reply to someone, who has been more than kind in his replies to your universally hyperbolic nonsense?

Thank you for your consideration.

 

[_A]

*sigh

Ronald E -

Speaking as a female of the species, I’m not offended in the least by what you have said…

And to Mr. A…

So, you’re an expert on women?

Nope. I am not going to lump them all together, though. One thing that I do know quite well is that they are as varied as any other random group of humans.

Are your statements based on your observations in your expansive corner of your particular universe?

Mostly, and by learning much about women. Having friends who are women, being raised by a woman, loving several women and raising some others.

What exactly are your credentials on speaking up for women? Are you claiming to be an expert by way of mind reading?

No, I am suggesting that lumping them all together will definitely offend some of them. Women are people, that they have in common with all other people. Ronald E was lumping them all together as this ideal of women which he has. Some women might fit that ideal, but it is wrong to suggest that all do.

You’re not a woman, so now there are two things you’re not an expert on - God, Who you don’t believe in, and women, the gender of which you are not…

On the subject of gods, you know even less. You claim to have knowledge, but what you have instead is belief. Let’s test some of it to see if it is a real god or not, shall we?
Or are you so afraid of discovering that your god is a sham that you will avoid proper tests?

And now a question for you:

Do you think it would be possible for you to refrain from continuing to rudely reply to someone, who has been more than kind in his replies to your universally hyperbolic nonsense?

Thank you for your consideration.

I think I will continue as I have, being me. If Ronald E does not care to have his ideas examined, he likely will stop bringing them. Many have.

And now a question for you.
Since the bible says that women should be silent, and learn from their husbands, do you really think it is proper of you to be here, talking to, and perhaps learning from someone else?

 

[Armor_of_God]

Armor of God.

May I ask you a question off the general topic of this thread. I know you are a intelligent person. If you do not want to answer, simply ignore it.

What is your opinion on E.V.P’s.

les.

Hi Les,

I am an ordinary Joe with a penchant for learning.
I confess, I had never heard of that acronym before and had to Google it. I have heard of the concept though - I think it was discussed a few times on that late night Art Bell radio show.
Right now, I don’t really have a strong opinion on it, except that I wonder why it fascinates some people. Is EVP something that interests you?

 

[Armor_of_God]

I think I will continue as I have, being me. If Ronald E does not care to have his ideas examined, he likely will stop bringing them. Many have.

Hi A,

Have you heard about the flies and the honey?

 

[_A]

Hi A,

Have you heard about the flies and the honey?

I have, Armor of God, but he tickled a place where I really twitch. Let me explain.
When someone from Newfoundland sayd “Newfoundlanders are the hardest-working people”, (as a low-temperature example) it has the implication that those from anywhere else are a little bit less ‘hard-working’. Now, we see this everywhere, Canadians thinking they are better than Americans, Catholics thinking they are better than Jews - this kind of pride is a kind of racism (or nationalism, or denominationism - I don’t know the word really ) that goes unnoticed often.
Saying "women bring love into this world and they have the ability to love unselfishly. " is either pure nonsense, like poetry…meaningless words, or it is implying men cannot. I think it is bull.
I also think it is showing a poor view of men. I think men are terrific, and I am sorry for anyone who has not had the pleasure of meeting such loving and caring men as I have known. It must be a lonely life to not know men who bring love into this world.
It would be a sad life if you never knew a man who had the ability to love unselfishly.

 

[NaturalEnquirer]

Hi A,

Have you heard about the flies and the honey?

I have! xkcd.com/357/



I can’t help but notice the third panel explicit qualifier of “fruit flies”, instead of the original “flies”. Maybe that’s why they go for the vinegar. Or maybe the cartoonist is making stuff up. I’m far too disinterested to actually google it or anything.

Peace!

 

[Armor_of_God]

I have, Armor of God, but he tickled a place where I really twitch. Let me explain.
When someone from Newfoundland sayd “Newfoundlanders are the hardest-working people”, (as a low-temperature example) it has the implication that those from anywhere else are a little bit less ‘hard-working’. Now, we see this everywhere, Canadians thinking they are better than Americans, Catholics thinking they are better than Jews -

…atheists thinking they are better than theists…

Saying "women bring love into this world and they have the ability to love unselfishly. " is either pure nonsense, like poetry…meaningless words, or it is implying men cannot. I think it is bull.
I also think it is showing a poor view of men. I think men are terrific, and I am sorry for anyone who has not had the pleasure of meeting such loving and caring men as I have known. It must be a lonely life to not know men who bring love into this world.
It would be a sad life if you never knew a man who had the ability to love unselfishly.

Now, that was a little sweeter.

But what I was really getting at was that you seem to assume that people mainly stop coming around here because they don’t want their ideas examined or challenged.

I was just saying there are other reasons, and a little honey wouldn’t hurt.

 

[Armor_of_God]

I have! xkcd.com/357/



I can’t help but notice the third panel explicit qualifier of “fruit flies”, instead of the original “flies”. Maybe that’s why they go for the vinegar. Or maybe the cartoonist is making stuff up. I’m far too disinterested to actually google it or anything.

Peace!

In my University biology labs, the medium that we used for our experiments had a bit of a sour smell to it.

But, I must say the very best crops of fruit flies I have ever produced were from the remains of my juicer (for fruit juices) in my kitchen garbage! I could have supplied several university classes with the amount I produced - in a relatively short time.

 

[Ronald_E]

I have, Armor of God, but he tickled a place where I really twitch. Let me explain.
When someone from Newfoundland sayd “Newfoundlanders are the hardest-working people”, (as a low-temperature example) it has the implication that those from anywhere else are a little bit less ‘hard-working’. Now, we see this everywhere, Canadians thinking they are better than Americans, Catholics thinking they are better than Jews - this kind of pride is a kind of racism (or nationalism, or denominationism - I don’t know the word really ) that goes unnoticed often.
Saying "women bring love into this world and they have the ability to love unselfishly. " is either pure nonsense, like poetry…meaningless words, or it is implying men cannot. I think it is bull.
I also think it is showing a poor view of men. I think men are terrific, and I am sorry for anyone who has not had the pleasure of meeting such loving and caring men as I have known. It must be a lonely life to not know men who bring love into this world.
It would be a sad life if you never knew a man who had the ability to love unselfishly.

A, I do have a poor view of men. For one thing I said that women have the ability to love unselfishly. Very few are able to love unselfishly because of a fear based relationship with men. Humans have a limbic brain that is similar to animals. The amygdala in the limbic system is responsible for identifying what is a threat and what is not. It is also competitive and uses aggression to dominate opponents and females. Instinctively, the female is in a submissive role to the male based on needing the male for protection yet not really able to fully trust him. The moment the male becomes angry the amydala in the female becomes charged with fear and then immediately further deterioration can result if this is not addressed directly. Also the sex drive in the male is connected to the amygdala whereas in the female it has not connection there.
A, I have thousands of words written on this and have educated men and women in order that they can understand their dynamics in an intellectual instead of an emotional response. There is not enough space here to provide great detail that would influence you to see that I am not generalizing.
A, this is fun for me. There are hidden things in the bible that very few people will see if they are not open. For instance there was a female donkey who saw an angel that was ready to kill a holy man because he did not obey God. Look at the symbolism.
Another verse in Jeremiah 31:28 …for God has created a new thing in the earth, a woman shall compass a man. In Gottman’s research at the U of WA one of the main characteristics of a successful relationship was the ability of the woman to influence the man more than he influenced her; in particular, teaching him empathy. Empathy is a characteristic of love.
The brain structure and biology of women are made to support life and if they live in a dangerous world their amygdala will charge up and they have to then adjust how they will express their love.

 

[Pier]

And now a question for you.
Since the bible says that women should be silent, and learn from their husbands, do you really think it is proper of you to be here, talking to, and perhaps learning from someone else?

Sorry A,

I have my husband’s permission to be here. And too late I have already learned from others on this thread, thanks be to God…

I will say that I do agree with you that human beings are unique, regardless of gender, etc. etc…

If you don’t mind, may I ask why our faith in our Faith bothers you so much? You do know that faith, like grace, is invisible, although its effects would indeed be tangible in how one lives one’s life. You have written that you have loved various people, you have believed them worthy of affection, care, concern, etc. - so you are aware of what love is. So what is your problem with our faith and our love for God, who is love and is most lovable, if you don’t mind my asking?

 

[_A]

…atheists thinking they are better than theists…

That is exactly it. We are all people, individuals (the smallest, most vulnerable minority is the individual). Lumping women together as some fruity, loving ideal is offensive and dehumanising, in my opinion. It is no better than saying that they are all spiteful and conniving. Each statement ignores individuality.
This is such an undeveloped thought for me, that I don’t articulate it well, but I hope you understand. What I said about men was from the same place that, I think, Ronald E’s originated - a deep respect for the people in my life who have taught me about love.

The thing is that I think women are exactly as capable in all those areas.

As I said, it is an undeveloped thought, and I dislike it more than I understand my dislike of it, if you see what I mean.

Now, that was a little sweeter.

Thanks.

But what I was really getting at was that you seem to assume that people mainly stop coming around here because they don’t want their ideas examined or challenged.

I just figured most stopped by to ask me something because I am an atheist, and left when they got their answers. I do think a few leave because they don’t like their ideas examined or challenged. I nearly have a few times

I was just saying there are other reasons, and a little honey wouldn’t hurt.

I will keep it in mind, thanks, AofG

A, I do have a poor view of men.

I am sorry that your studies and you bible have led you here. I would suggest simply knowing some better men. I know it isn’t really simple, but it is worth persevering.

If you don’t mind, may I ask why our faith in our Faith bothers you so much? You do know that faith, like grace, is invisible, although its effects would indeed be tangible in how one lives one’s life. You have written that you have loved various people, you have believed them worthy of affection, care, concern, etc. - so you are aware of what love is. So what is your problem with our faith and our love for God, who is love and is most lovable, if you don’t mind my asking?

Mainly because so often someone behaves as if their faith was fact. I don’t mind if people believe it, but when they try to pass these foul old prejudices off as fact, I tend to want to speak up. The bible is no more than a book.

 

[Ronald_E]

That is exactly it. We are all people, individuals (the smallest, most vulnerable minority is the individual). Lumping women together as some fruity, loving ideal is offensive and dehumanising, in my opinion. It is no better than saying that they are all spiteful and conniving. Each statement ignores individuality.
This is such an undeveloped thought for me, that I don’t articulate it well, but I hope you understand. What I said about men was from the same place that, I think, Ronald E’s originated - a deep respect for the people in my life who have taught me about love.

The thing is that I think women are exactly as capable in all those areas.

As I said, it is an undeveloped thought, and I dislike it more than I understand my dislike of it, if you see what I mean.Thanks. I just figured most stopped by to ask me something because I am an atheist, and left when they got their answers. I do think a few leave because they don’t like their ideas examined or challenged. I nearly have a few times
I will keep it in mind, thanks, AofG

I am sorry that your studies and you bible have led you here. I would suggest simply knowing some better men. I know it isn’t really simple, but it is worth persevering.

Mainly because so often someone behaves as if their faith was fact. I don’t mind if people believe it, but when they try to pass these foul old prejudices off as fact, I tend to want to speak up. The bible is no more than a book.

A, I have the best male friends that I do not even deserve. You and I need several hours for me to explain this clearly to you. The males friends that I have tend to be introverts as I am sure you are. Introverts are in the minority and basically they are internally driven by their creativity, intelligence and sensitivity. When an introvert male tries to fit in to the general population he finds that he cannot fit in like others. It is difficult to have superficial conversations with others and he normally lives in a highly anxious state thinking there is something wrong with him.

I am now going into another highly complex area that cannot be understood with soundbytes. What I do know for sure is that the introvert male is going to have a lot of rage that will only get expressed when he is certain that he will not get hurt or be focused on.

However, it is not the introverted males generally speaking who create the problems. A look at who runs the world. It is the most aggressive males.

I did not learn what I am telling from the bible; it is from 35 years of education and vocation. Males get too defensive. That is one thing extroverts and introverts have in common.

Just relax and think about it. Lighten up a little. You sound like me 20 years ago.

 

[Pier]

Mainly because so often someone behaves as if their faith was fact.

Our faith is fact. To say that it isn’t, would be like me saying your love for your mother was not a fact, which I’m not saying it is, but you get my point…

I don’t mind if people believe it,

Geez, thanks! God Himself, and the Constitution, happen to back you up on that one.

but when they try to pass these foul old prejudices off as fact, I tend to want to speak up.

What “foul old prejudices”? Do speak up.

The bible is no more than a book.

And that is no more than your opinion, which you are indeed entitled to, and apparently believe to be an unerring truth - but believing it doesn’t necessarily make it so, which is (basically) exactly what you keep telling us (Catholics)…

Which means that one of us is right, and one of us is wrong.

That said, I’d like to thank you for the many lessons in (I think it’s called) fisking…

Not a bad idea!