I am Catholic and I WORSHIP MARY!

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tGette

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That’s right…I said it!

I worship Mary! :eek:

This thread is a game of semantics!

Let us keep in mind in English and in most languages a word has various meanings.

For instance, check out this definition of worship:
“to have intense love and admiration for (a person)”
-or-
" intense love or devotion to a person"

(For example…a man may worship his wife.)

I urge everyone to search their dictionary and see what I mean!

This is why in early translations it would be mentioned that we (as Catholics) worship Mary and Angels and Saints!

Like Mary being the “refuge of sinners”.
Again…in another language…just like “worship” these words take on my various meanings and tend to flow toward the poetic side.

I believe the thread I am now linking was inspiration for the thread you are now reading. (Please check out the link…here it is again! It was from a question on the Ask an Apologist forum.)

Devotion of the past was simply VERY poetic!
 
We VENERATE the saints, we WORSHIP God.

Don’t play games with theological vocabulary.
 
Nickkname said:
We VENERATE the saints, we WORSHIP God.

Don’t play games with theological vocabulary.
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In this game of semantics…I VENERATE God too!

Take that! 😛
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                                                                  Originally Posted by **Tim Kirchoff**                     [forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif](http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=4247861#post4247861)                 
             *But it's fun to confuse people :(*
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Yes…but now my scrupulous side has kicked in and I feel a bit of guilt.

Nickname:
You do make a very valid point. I was just trying to have some fun!
 
In the English language, worship is synonomous with reverence and honor. Roman Catholics split hairs over the meaning of words because they feel guilty saying they worship the saints.
 
VARC said:
In the English language, worship is synonomous with reverence and honor. Roman Catholics split hairs over the meaning of words because they feel guilty saying they worship the saints.
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Not exactly…I was just trying to play around.

Sometimes these forums get a bit too serious! Our Lord came to liberate us…and that was what I was attempting to extend to everyone…liberation!
 
tGette said:
In this game of semantics…I VENERATE God too!

Take that! 😛

Yes…but now my scrupulous side has kicked in and I feel a bit of guilt.

Nickname:
You do make a very valid point. I was just trying to have some fun!
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Ohhh. I’m sorry! 😦
 
VARC said:
In the English language, worship is synonomous with reverence and honor. Roman Catholics split hairs over the meaning of words because they feel guilty saying they worship the saints.
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I find it interesting every time I see comments like this. The reverence given to Mary versus the worship given to God is a universe apart. Even the greatest “pro-Mary” saint, St. Louis de Montfort said 'next to God, Mary is but an atom". The fact that you or anyone else could confuse Catholic veneration with Catholic worship makes me question what exactly you think it is to worship. For if you yourself give to Christ the veneration that Catholics give to Mary, you are seriously short changing the adoration of God. Sorry, but what other conclusion I can draw from the insistence that for a Catholic “worship” and “veneration” are just a split hair of difference?

By the way, the Church didn’t grow up speaking English. The first Christians spoke Aramaic and Greek and later, Latin. Anyone who has studied translational differences in scripture can see that sometimes it is difficult to translate a particular phrase into English and have its full meaning come across. For Catholics, there is the highest level of worship which is given to God alone. In Latin it is “latria”. Catholics reverence for saints is “dulia” and for Mary “hyperdulia”. The fact that the words don’t keep their full meaning when translated into English is not the fault of the Church. But, they are not the same thing. Latria denotes a sacrificial nature, dulia and hyperdulia do not. It reminds me of another word where English just falls short- that perfect sacrificial love that God offers us-- agape (also sacrificial in nature). There is no word in English that encompasses it’s meaning. It’s not a matter of splitting hairs, different words mean different things. Worship is not veneration and veneration is not worship. At least, not for Catholics.
 
Prayer_Warrior said:
I find it interesting every time I see comments like this. The reverence given to Mary versus the worship given to God is a universe apart. Even the greatest “pro-Mary” saint, St. Louis de Montfort said 'next to God, Mary is but an atom". The fact that you or anyone else could confuse Catholic veneration with Catholic worship makes me question what exactly you think it is to worship. For if you yourself give to Christ the veneration that Catholics give to Mary, you are seriously short changing the adoration of God. Sorry, but what other conclusion I can draw from the insistence that for a Catholic “worship” and “veneration” are just a split hair of difference?

By the way, the Church didn’t grow up speaking English. The first Christians spoke Aramaic and Greek and later, Latin. Anyone who has studied translational differences in scripture can see that sometimes it is difficult to translate a particular phrase into English and have its full meaning come across. For Catholics, there is the highest level of worship which is given to God alone. In Latin it is “latria”. Catholics reverence for saints is “dulia” and for Mary “hyperdulia”. The fact that the words don’t keep their full meaning when translated into English is not the fault of the Church. But, they are not the same thing. Latria denotes a sacrificial nature, dulia and hyperdulia do not. It reminds me of another word where English just falls short- that perfect sacrificial love that God offers us-- agape (also sacrificial in nature). There is no word in English that encompasses it’s meaning. It’s not a matter of splitting hairs, different words mean different things. Worship is not veneration and veneration is not worship. At least, not for Catholics.
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Now that’s semantics!!! 👍
 
VARC said:
In the English language, worship is synonomous with reverence and honor. Roman Catholics split hairs over the meaning of words because they feel guilty saying they worship the saints.
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This is not exactly true but I can understand why you may say so. I think that catholics hold mary in high regard as the mother of the lord, god. And rightly so. She seemed to be good mother with the ordinary mother cares that any mother would have for their child. Also, she showed genuine sorrow at the death of her son on the cross. She was a good mother, she is someone who can be held up as a role model for other mothers.

And for catholics, Mary is a person for intercession. I am sure that Christ still listens to his earthly mother on some matters. And so, the veneration. But then, even the angel venerated her when he said, Hail Mary, full of grace. Such a statement also speaks of veneration. And catholics who use the rosary daily, repeat this veneration quite often.
 
VARC said:
In the English language, worship is synonomous with reverence and honor. Roman Catholics split hairs over the meaning of words because they feel guilty saying they worship the saints.
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Honour your Father and Mother!

Words have meanings for a reason!

If you wish to define everything as worship. Then we worship Mary as God worshipped Mary and we worship God with the Worship due to God alone!
 
Thing said:
Honour your Father and Mother!

Words have meanings for a reason!

If you wish to define everything as worship. Then we worship Mary as God worshipped Mary and we worship God with the Worship due to God alone!
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Very well said, thank you!!!
 
:mad:
tGette said:
Not exactly…I was just trying to play around.

Sometimes these forums get a bit too serious! Our Lord came to liberate us…and that was what I was attempting to extend to everyone…liberation!
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Did God send us Robin Williams ? 😉
 
I think as English speaking Christians we are very limited in our appreciation of the beauty of language especially as it pertains to scripture and theological writings. The ‘semantics’ we encounter are in large part because of the limits that English has. A previous post here talked about the word agape as compared to the eros which both are understood in English as love, but in the Greek have very, very different meanings in the application. In Pope Benedict’s book Jesus of Nazareth has a section dealing with Pontius Pilate’s offering the people Barabbas. He goes on to explain that Bar-abbas meant ‘son of the father’. Taken with our understanding of Christ as the son of the Father, it gives the entire scene a completely different context. English speaking socities often times forgot about the deeper meanings words carry for cultures around the world. We transpose our own contemporary society to that of the time of Jesus and the disciples. Instead of trying to understand what was occurring during that historical period as it pertained to that region of the world and that section of society. Great thread…really like it!
 
I love the Blessed Mother. She brought me closer to her Son. There is nothing wrong with saying what you said. You can worship her, and worship her Son even greater.😉
 
**That’s right…I said it!

I worship Mary!

This thread is a game of semantics!**

If you worship Mary with the LATREIA that according to Jesus belongs to God alone, then you do so not because of the teaching of the Church BUT IN SPITE OF IT and are a heretic.
 
Semantics…always interesting. I understand the logic behind this thread but I cringed when I read this Thread title! haha Cringed because many Non-Catholics already have the perception that we “worship Mary” and may not even take the time to look at this thread and understand why you said what you said!

I agree with many above posters that because of translations and the English language lacking words that fully describe the meaning of Latin, Hebrew, and Greek words, we do not realize the beauty and clear understanding of many Biblical passages.

tGette, thanks for the language lesson and for the attempt to lighten the mood here at CAF, but I urge you to be careful in your approach!

May God Bless you all!

In Christ,
IamDust
 
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