I am considering the Orthodox Church

[Gumbercules]

I have to be honest, these new revelations of abuse have me shaken up. That they go as far as to implicate the pope himself in it.

And the modernism and accommodation or heretics and unbelievers.

Could I have made the wrong choice in becoming Catholic?

I am thinking about checking out Orthodoxy. I have not considered doing this in the 2 years that I have been a Catholic. But now, it seems to me that they arent suffering from the corruption that we are.

Thoughts?

 

[CMatt25]

I have to be honest, these new revelations of abuse have me shaken up. That they go as far as to implicate the pope himself in it.

And the modernism and accommodation or heretics and unbelievers.

Could I have made the wrong choice in becoming Catholic?

I am thinking about checking out Orthodoxy. I have not considered doing this in the 2 years that I have been a Catholic. But now, it seems to me that they arent suffering from the corruption that we are.

Thoughts?

When we open our hearts to God’s Spirit, He will tell us where He wants us to be. Peace and God bless on your journey.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

If you’re considering Orthodoxy, make sure it’s for all the right reasons: papal authority, filioque, theology, liturgy, history, etc. The Catholic Church has corruption in it. That’s just a fact of life. I am appauled at the pope’s role in this and I’m disgusted at the constant defense people have of the molesters, especially here in CAF. There’s always a defense, an excuse, it’s the knee-jerk apologetics mode.

If one were to explore Orthodoxy, it would be because the individual seriously has doubts about papal infallibility, supremacy, and they see the Roman Church as having initiated the Great Schism. If one were to explore Othodoxy, he’d have to see Roman Catholicism as full of innovation, teachings that diverge from the deposit of faith in the early church, and men like Honorius would be a slam-dunk evidence that the papacy is open to error and heresy. A person considering Orthodoxy would view things like transubstantiation, the marian apparitions, purgatory, indulgences, etc. as innovations. A person considering Orthodoxy might also do so because he considers the Catholic Church two steps away from Protestantism in her liturgy, happy-clappy and lessened in the dignity and beauty of litrugy she had pre-Vatican II.

I agree with you that the corruption in the Church is obscene and unconscionable. You should be outraged. And if anyone in here tries to smooth it over with the lame excuse, “yeah, well it happens in every church,” you should roll your eyes. But I’m saying you should make sure that your reason for leaving isn’t JUST this scandal, but more theological meat and depth.

 

[josie_L]

I have to be honest, these new revelations of abuse have me shaken up. That they go as far as to implicate the pope himself in it.

And the modernism and accommodation or heretics and unbelievers.

Could I have made the wrong choice in becoming Catholic?

I am thinking about checking out Orthodoxy. I have not considered doing this in the 2 years that I have been a Catholic. But now, it seems to me that they arent suffering from the corruption that we are.

Thoughts?

Yes, I can understand how this can shake you up, but these scandals try to implicate the pope because it would force him out of office, i.e., those with a liberal/secularist agenda do not like our traditional and orthodox Pope. Nevertheless, these implications are spurious, here are examples of such lies:

Lie no. #1. Before he became Pope Benedict XVI, Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, in 2001, issued a “confidential order to every bishop” and “ordered the cover-up” of sex abuse.

As canon lawyer Ed Peters wrote years ago, the Vatican published Ratzinger’s document in its official journal when it was first issued. Catholic press reported on the document in early 2002. The Vatican also posted the document on its web site.

In other words, nothing was ever “confidential.” Not … even … close. As far as Jillette’s wild charges of a “cover-up,” keep reading.

Lie no. #2. “[Cardinal Ratzinger’s 2001 document ordered] that sex abuse investigations were to be kept secret for up to 10 years after the victim reached adulthood, upon penalty of ex-communication. You heard right.”

Jillette’s claim is wild, to say the least. The document simply gave new authority to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF) in handling accusations against priests, including those allegations involving child sex abuse.

Again, this document was already discussed years ago. Ed Peters’ 2005 post (scroll down to April 27) is very helpful on this topic (bold mine):

*n extending jurisdiction over these cases to 10 years past the alleged victim’s 18th birthday, CDF actually increased the amount of time that Church officials (whether diocesan or Roman) had to prosecute these offenses. Before CDF’s letter, canonical prosecutions were complicated by unduly short statutes of limitations—the very same problem, by the way, that state prosecutions encountered in many pedophilia cases. CDF was hardly obstructing justice; it was trying to make justice more available.

[K]eep in mind that most ecclesiastical crimes are not crimes under civil law, and that the Church obviously legislates for the majority of cases she encounters. For most canonical offenses, then, secrecy in criminal matters (1983 CIC 1455, 1717) accomplishes several goods: 1) protecting the integrity of the investigation; 2) shielding victims from untimely or unwanted exposure; 3) protecting accused, especially the wrongly accused, from devastating publicity; and so on. Need I say that numerous civil authorities conduct secret investigations for exactly the same kinds of reasons? More importantly, though, nothing whatsoever in CDF’s letter prevents or discourages victims (or their parents) from going to the police, private attorneys, or even the press with their stories. CDF, it seems, has a lot to learn about how to obstruct justice.

Again, a little bit of research by Jillette would have uncovered the truth about Ratzinger’s 2001 document."

themediareport.com/sep200…eller-lies.htm*

As to the problems we are now experiencing that has more to do with the liberal theology that set itself up within the Church during the 60’s (secular ideals influencing the culture and society at large), thus allowing candidates of the priesthood who were unorthodox in faith and morals to enter the Church. It is sad that such people became priests but yet there is still hope if we as a Church fight the Judases from ever doing this again, i.e., we need to be vigilant and work now more than ever to fight the liberals/secularists within and without the Church who wish to destroy the credibility of the CC (we are the only institution able to stand in their way of fulfilling their secularist agenda).

 

[Ahimsa]

I have to be honest, these new revelations of abuse have me shaken up. That they go as far as to implicate the pope himself in it.

And the modernism and accommodation or heretics and unbelievers.

Could I have made the wrong choice in becoming Catholic?

I am thinking about checking out Orthodoxy. I have not considered doing this in the 2 years that I have been a Catholic. But now, it seems to me that they arent suffering from the corruption that we are.

Thoughts?

Ask yourself if you are assuming that Orthodoxy is totally free of sinful humans.

 

[josie_L]

If you’re considering Orthodoxy, make sure it’s for all the right reasons: papal authority, filioque, theology, liturgy, history, etc. The Catholic Church has corruption in it. That’s just a fact of life. I am appauled at the pope’s role in this and I’m disgusted at the constant defense people have of the molesters, especially here in CAF. There’s always a defense, an excuse, it’s the knee-jerk apologetics mode.

If one were to explore Orthodoxy, it would be because the individual seriously has doubts about papal infallibility, supremacy, and they see the Roman Church as having initiated the Great Schism. If one were to explore Othodoxy, he’d have to see Roman Catholicism as full of innovation, teachings that diverge from the deposit of faith in the early church, and men like Honorius would be a slam-dunk evidence that the papacy is open to error and heresy. A person considering Orthodoxy would view things like transubstantiation, the marian apparitions, purgatory, indulgences, etc. as innovations. A person considering Orthodoxy might also do so because he considers the Catholic Church two steps away from Protestantism in her liturgy, happy-clappy and lessened in the dignity and beauty of litrugy she had pre-Vatican II.

I agree with you that the corruption in the Church is obscene and unconscionable. You should be outraged. And if anyone in here tries to smooth it over with the lame excuse, “yeah, well it happens in every church,” you should roll your eyes. But I’m saying you should make sure that your reason for leaving isn’t JUST this scandal, but more theological meat and depth.

Scott, do not assume that the Pope is implicated in this scandal, i.e, in the past they (those who accused him) tried to implicate him in other scandals and were proven wrong (please look at the above post). I agree with the rest however (I just don’t appreciate those who use these scandals to further their own agendas).

God bless.

Josie

 

[jam070406]

The scandals don’t negate or invalidate the Teachings. It DOES show that the Church is under attack. Don’t let the storm cause you to lose hope or Faith. And don’t let it drive you to commit schism. This is exactly what the devil wants. He wants to rob people of this great gift any way he can.

 

[DorianGregorian]

The scandals don’t negate or invalidate the Teachings. It DOES show that the Church is under attack. Don’t let the storm cause you to lose hope or Faith. And don’t let it drive you to commit schism. This is exactly what the devil wants. He wants to rob people of this great gift any way he can.

Who is attacking the Church? The (small percentage) of Priests and secrecy of the hierarchy seems to be attacking itself quite nicely.

 

[jam070406]

Who is attacking the Church? The (small percentage) of Priests and secrecy of the hierarchy seems to be attacking itself quite nicely.

Refer to Josie’s answer in post #4.

 

[Julian0404]

I have to be honest, these new revelations of abuse have me shaken up. That they go as far as to implicate the pope himself in it.

And the modernism and accommodation or heretics and unbelievers.

Could I have made the wrong choice in becoming Catholic?

I am thinking about checking out Orthodoxy. I have not considered doing this in the 2 years that I have been a Catholic. But now, it seems to me that they arent suffering from the corruption that we are.

Thoughts?

The EO church IS catholic, so why run and hide there? Perhaps you’ve forgotten Jesus words, “…and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it…” meaning HIS Church, the one you wish to run and hide from.
satan began attacking Jesus Church the day HE selected HIS apostles i.e. Judas. satan will never stopped attacking until Jesus comes for the 2nd time.
Remember that GOD will give satan his time on earth, and with each passing day, satans time is growing closer such that with each event in the world, the world will be becoming less Christian, less caring, less giving, more hateful, more selfish, more dangerous, filled with wars and rumors of wars. And being Christian will be a source of hatered and abuse for us, personally.
Prepare yourself and your soul through frequent confession and giving your heat to Jesus through Mary by going to www.queenship.org and ordering IN THE END MY IMMACULATE HEART WILL TRIUMPH.
“Wait for the Lord with courage; be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord” Ps 27.

 

[Matt_707]

Don’t ever let scandals lead you to another religion. Let the Spirit lead you in your journey here on earth. Ever organization has scandals. This is nothing new. People love to slam the pope and the CC when mistakes are made. Those poor priests are human and do make mistakes. Remember what Jesus said even in today’s gospel, “Let him who is free of sin cast the first stone.” Also in Matthew 10, “You will be hated by all because of my name, but those that endure until the end will be victorious.” There is comfort in that verse. My prayers are with you.

 

[SSTeacher]

Gumbercules;6425758:

I have to be honest, these new revelations of abuse have me shaken up. That they go as far as to implicate the pope himself in it.

And the modernism and accommodation or heretics and unbelievers.

Could I have made the wrong choice in becoming Catholic?

I am thinking about checking out Orthodoxy. I have not considered doing this in the 2 years that I have been a Catholic. But now, it seems to me that they aren’t suffering from the corruption that we are.

Thoughts?

If you’re considering Orthodoxy, make sure it’s for all the right reasons: papal authority, filioque, theology, liturgy, history, etc. The Catholic Church has corruption in it. That’s just a fact of life. I am appalled at the pope’s role in this and I’m disgusted at the constant defense people have of the molesters, especially here in CAF. There’s always a defense, an excuse, it’s the knee-jerk apologetics mode.

If one were to explore Orthodoxy, it would be because the individual seriously has doubts about papal infallibility, supremacy, and they see the Roman Church as having initiated the Great Schism. If one were to explore Orthodoxy, he’d have to see Roman Catholicism as full of innovation, teachings that diverge from the deposit of faith in the early church, and men like Honorius would be a slam-dunk evidence that the papacy is open to error and heresy. A person considering Orthodoxy would view things like transubstantiation, the Marian apparitions, purgatory, indulgences, etc. as innovations. A person considering Orthodoxy might also do so because he considers the Catholic Church two steps away from Protestantism in her liturgy, happy-clappy and lessened in the dignity and beauty of liturgy she had pre-Vatican II.

I agree with you that the corruption in the Church is obscene and unconscionable. You should be outraged. And if anyone in here tries to smooth it over with the lame excuse, “yeah, well it happens in every church,” you should roll your eyes. But I’m saying you should make sure that your reason for leaving isn’t JUST this scandal, but more theological meat and depth.

I’m in total agreement with gurneyhalleck1.

I respectfully suggest that you stay loyal to the Catholic Church and set your sights on weathering out the storm. Work on trying to forgive in your heart all the molesters, together with those who now seek to defend them by diverting attention away from the main point with suggestions of anti–Catholic agendas and exaggeration by the media. Consider the hurt inflicted upon those Catholic children who have suffered at the hands of the perpetrators – and consider, too, the pain of the parents of these children, the siblings and all the other family relatives and friends. Pray for them all. Pray, too, for the ungodly men who committed these acts that they will repent and that the LORD will grant them peace and forgiveness for their sins and not allow them to leave this life without true faith and sincere conversion. Pray, also, for your spiritual leaders that they will by God’s grace find the strength to resist the temptation to bear false witness. There is work for you to do inside Catholicism. If you don’t do it, it won’t get done. Go be an encourager to your fellow–Catholics in their time of need. Forget about Orthodoxy Christianity for the time being.

After your work is done you may still feel inclined to check into Holy Orthodoxy but if you do decide on that course please be aware that you will very soon discover that the Orthodox Church is not without problems. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

May you quickly find peace of mind and the burden of uncertainty be lifted from you.

In Christ,
Mick

 

[josie_L]

I have to be honest, these new revelations of abuse have me shaken up. That they go as far as to implicate the pope himself in it.

And the modernism and accommodation or heretics and unbelievers.

Could I have made the wrong choice in becoming Catholic?

I am thinking about checking out Orthodoxy. I have not considered doing this in the 2 years that I have been a Catholic. But now, it seems to me that they arent suffering from the corruption that we are.

Thoughts?

No, you were not wrong in becoming Catholic and I assure you that you are needed more than ever to help bring about good in his Church (Jesus needs us).

p.s. What are your thoughts about the end times?

 

[The_Geographer]

I have to be honest, these new revelations of abuse have me shaken up. That they go as far as to implicate the pope himself in it.

And the modernism and accommodation or heretics and unbelievers.

Could I have made the wrong choice in becoming Catholic?

I am thinking about checking out Orthodoxy. I have not considered doing this in the 2 years that I have been a Catholic. But now, it seems to me that they arent suffering from the corruption that we are.

Thoughts?

I’m one of the victims. I came back home after running around to another church. Do NOT make a decision on which church you go to based on scandals. That is not the way to do it. I understand your anger. I have changed my user name several times because of my initial reactions after coming back home to the Catholic Church. No matter where you go you’ll find humans leading humans. And where ever humans lead you’ll find sin. Sin exsists in all of the other faiths I’ve practiced, INCLUDING SEXUAL ABUSE!!! Abusers threaten their victims and mange to put on the dog to get into anything that exposes them. Schools have a higher rate of abuse than that occurred in the Church.

I talked to enough Orthodox priests to know that you are not making a decision based on belief but rather how you feel based on a scandal. Scandals have always existed from the very beginning of time. Peter denied Christ. Judas betrayed Christ. Look at the Jewish King Herod. Can’t get much worst than that. If you choose to change rites, then do it based on truth, not anything else. But PLEASE voice your feeling of being scandalized. No one should ever try to shut you up about complaining about it because you are experiencing justified anger.

 

[josie_L]

I’m one of the victims. I came back home after running around to another church. Do NOT make a decision on which church you go to based on scandals. That is not the way to do it. I understand your anger. I have changed my user name several times because of my initial reactions after coming back home to the Catholic Church. No matter where you go you’ll find humans leading humans. And where ever humans lead you’ll find sin. Sin exsists in all of the other faiths I’ve practiced, INCLUDING SEXUAL ABUSE!!! Abusers threaten their victims and mange to put on the dog to get into anything that exposes them. Schools have a higher rate of abuse than that occurred in the Church.

I talked to enough Orthodox priests to know that you are not making a decision based on belief but rather how you feel based on a scandal. Scandals have always existed from the very beginning of time. Peter denied Christ. Judas betrayed Christ. Look at the Jewish King Herod. Can’t get much worst than that. If you choose to change rites, then do it based on truth, not anything else. But PLEASE voice your feeling of being scandalized. No one should ever try to shut you up about complaining about it because you are experiencing justified anger.

You are an amazing person, my friend. Thank you for sharing this with us. God bless and may God save us all.

 

[Gumbercules]

I’m in total agreement with gurneyhalleck1.

I respectfully suggest that you stay loyal to the Catholic Church and set your sights on weathering out the storm. Work on trying to forgive in your heart all the molesters, together with those who now seek to defend them by diverting attention away from the main point with suggestions of anti–Catholic agendas and exaggeration by the media. Consider the hurt inflicted upon those Catholic children who have suffered at the hands of the perpetrators – and consider, too, the pain of the parents of these children, the siblings and all the other family relatives and friends. Pray for them all. Pray, too, for the ungodly men who committed these acts that they will repent and that the LORD will grant them peace and forgiveness for their sins and not allow them to leave this life without true faith and sincere conversion. Pray, also, for your spiritual leaders that they will by God’s grace find the strength to resist the temptation to bear false witness. There is work for you to do inside Catholicism. If you don’t do it, it won’t get done. Go be an encourager to your fellow–Catholics in their time of need. Forget about Orthodoxy Christianity for the time being.

After your work is done you may still feel inclined to check into Holy Orthodoxy but if you do decide on that course please be aware that you will very soon discover that the Orthodox Church is not without problems. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

May you quickly find peace of mind and the burden of uncertainty be lifted from you.

In Christ,
Mick

I think your advice is good. I think going to another form of Christianity because I am fleeing from another form is wrong, and for me to go to Orthodoxy just because I am fleeing Catholicism would be an insult to the Orthodox Church.

When I came to Catholicism from Evangelical Protestantism, it was because I thought the teachings of the Catholic Church were true, not because I was sick and disgusted with Evangelical Protestantism.

And I suppose my interest in checking out an Orthodox Church stems more from my disgust with the abuse scandal that has implicated the highest echelons of the Church, and what I feel is the encroaching liberalism both liturgically and doctrinally that I feel is in the Church.

 

[SSTeacher]

SSTeacher;6426194:

I’m in total agreement with gurneyhalleck1.

I respectfully suggest that you stay loyal to the Catholic Church and set your sights on weathering out the storm. Work on trying to forgive in your heart all the molesters, together with those who now seek to defend them by diverting attention away from the main point with suggestions of anti–Catholic agendas and exaggeration by the media. Consider the hurt inflicted upon those Catholic children who have suffered at the hands of the perpetrators – and consider, too, the pain of the parents of these children, the siblings and all the other family relatives and friends. Pray for them all. Pray, too, for the ungodly men who committed these acts that they will repent and that the LORD will grant them peace and forgiveness for their sins and not allow them to leave this life without true faith and sincere conversion. Pray, also, for your spiritual leaders that they will by God’s grace find the strength to resist the temptation to bear false witness. There is work for you to do inside Catholicism. If you don’t do it, it won’t get done. Go be an encourager to your fellow–Catholics in their time of need. Forget about Orthodoxy Christianity for the time being.

After your work is done you may still feel inclined to check into Holy Orthodoxy but if you do decide on that course please be aware that you will very soon discover that the Orthodox Church is not without problems. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

May you quickly find peace of mind and the burden of uncertainty be lifted from you.

In Christ,
Mick

I think your advice is good. I think going to another form of Christianity because I am fleeing from another form is wrong, and for me to go to Orthodoxy just because I am fleeing Catholicism would be an insult to the Orthodox Church.

When I came to Catholicism from Evangelical Protestantism, it was because I thought the teachings of the Catholic Church were true, not because I was sick and disgusted with Evangelical Protestantism.

And I suppose my interest in checking out an Orthodox Church stems more from my disgust with the abuse scandal that has implicated the highest echelons of the Church, and what I feel is the encroaching liberalism both liturgically and doctrinally that I feel is in the Church.

I can appreciate the difficulties you face and I think you’re taking the wisest course. It may be that in due course you will feel drawn to Orthodoxy not because of what you find distasteful in Catholicism but because of what you perceive to be so beautiful in Orthodoxy.

Fraternally,
Mick

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Good Afternoon, Mick,

Is that your parish church in the link? Wow. I’m jealous! That looks like an awesome place, bud! The video on the website of unction for a parishoner about to have heart surgery was amazing! What a blessing!

I can appreciate the difficulties you face and I think you’re taking the wisest course. It may be that in due course you will feel drawn to Orthodoxy not because of what you find distasteful in Catholicism but because of what you perceive to be so beautiful in Orthodoxy.

Fraternally,
Mick

 

[SSTeacher]

Good Afternoon, Mick,

Is that your parish church in the link? Wow. I’m jealous! That looks like an awesome place, bud! The video on the website of unction for a parishoner about to have heart surgery was amazing! What a blessing!

Hey Scottster, :bounce:

Yes, it sure is my parish church. The unction service was for our parish priest’s wife. Nine priests served. I owe you a private message so let me enlarge privately so as not to derail the thread. Be there shortly (I’m playing blowing raspberries with our 7–month old grandson, just now).

Sloppily,
Mick

 

[zerocrossing]

I have to say that in my experience, the Catholic sexual abuse scandals would be one of the more ironic reasons for becoming Orthodox.

I left the Catholic Church at one point to become Orthodox. And I was, in fact, married in the Orthodox church. We were supposed to be married by the pastor of the parish. He was a married priest, had been pastor for 20-some years, had adult children of his own, was a grandfather, etc. But he did not marry us due to revelations that he had been molesting altar boys for many years. The parishioners finally rose up and demanded that he be removed. I don’t know what the final outcome was because I moved from the region. I don’t know if he was cleared or defrocked or moved around or what. But I do know that he’s no longer in that parish.

This is not the reason I returned to the Catholic Church. I’m just saying that joining the Orthodox church is not going to provide a certain escape from these sorts of scandals.