I am considering the Orthodox Church

[dzheremi]

You may, if you wish, add my name to the list of people whose original (non-Catholic) churches were also corrupted by sexual abusers. I grew up Presbyterian, and it was only a few years after finally leaving that church for good that I learned that the greeter who had been there every Sunday since I could remember, handing out bulletins and always helping at church functions, was actually a serial sexual predator who had, during those same decades, been molesting young boys who he had in his care over the summer, ostensibly to do landscaping work on his property. He was eventually convicted of multiple counts of child molestation and kidnapping (because he had several underage boys in his house who had apparently been there for months at the time of his arrest, in some sort of bizarre brainwashing situation). I know all this because my step-mother at the time served on the jury that convicted him. My brother had even worked for him one summer. Thanks be to God nothing happened to him (and I was too young to go out there).

Anyway, just wanted to echo that such terrible tragedies can and do happen in any church. Orthodoxy has a great deal of appeal for me, too, but that is due to relative purity of its doctrine and liturgy, not its people. We’re all human. Popes, bishops, laypeople…all sinners, each and every one of us.

 

[Milliardo]

Study Orthodoxy. Attend Divine Liturgy. Pray, reflect, and let the Holy Spirit guide you. If, after all these things, you are still convinced that Orthodoxy has the Truth, then by all means do so. It takes time for one to become a catechumen, and from that time to entering the Orthodox Church even more time. You will have a lot of time to think things.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

The nearest Orthodox church to me is a little over an hour’s drive north in Fresno. The only other church is a Coptic Orthodox parish here in town. It is 100% Middle Easterners so my wife, kids, and I would be a tad uncomfortable! lol…It’s pretty much Catholic, Anglican, or bust in my town…

 

[Mickey]

And don’t let it drive you to commit schism.

Careful who you call schismatic. The Orthodox have another view about that.

 

[Mickey]

Don’t ever let scandals lead you to another religion.

Another religion!?! You’re kidding right?

 

[Mickey]

I’m in total agreement with gurneyhalleck1.

I respectfully suggest that you stay loyal to the Catholic Church and set your sights on weathering out the storm. Work on trying to forgive in your heart all the molesters, together with those who now seek to defend them by diverting attention away from the main point with suggestions of anti–Catholic agendas and exaggeration by the media. Consider the hurt inflicted upon those Catholic children who have suffered at the hands of the perpetrators – and consider, too, the pain of the parents of these children, the siblings and all the other family relatives and friends. Pray for them all. Pray, too, for the ungodly men who committed these acts that they will repent and that the LORD will grant them peace and forgiveness for their sins and not allow them to leave this life without true faith and sincere conversion. Pray, also, for your spiritual leaders that they will by God’s grace find the strength to resist the temptation to bear false witness. There is work for you to do inside Catholicism. If you don’t do it, it won’t get done. Go be an encourager to your fellow–Catholics in their time of need. Forget about Orthodoxy Christianity for the time being.

After your work is done you may still feel inclined to check into Holy Orthodoxy but if you do decide on that course please be aware that you will very soon discover that the Orthodox Church is not without problems. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

May you quickly find peace of mind and the burden of uncertainty be lifted from you.

In Christ,
Mick

This is a good post. When the sexual abuse scandals hit the U.S. a number of years ago, I was scandalized (I was Latin Catholic at this time). I had to learn how to process the terrible events that transpired. Don’t get me wrong, I wanted to see justice done, but I did not run from the Church. I kept saying to myself “Love the sinner, hate the sin”.

It was not the reason I eventually converted to the Holy Orthodox Church.

 

[josie_L]

I think your advice is good. I think going to another form of Christianity because I am fleeing from another form is wrong, and for me to go to Orthodoxy just because I am fleeing Catholicism would be an insult to the Orthodox Church.

When I came to Catholicism from Evangelical Protestantism, it was because I thought the teachings of the Catholic Church were true, not because I was sick and disgusted with Evangelical Protestantism.

And I suppose my interest in checking out an Orthodox Church stems more from my disgust with the abuse scandal that has implicated the highest echelons of the Church, and what I feel is the encroaching liberalism both liturgically and doctrinally that I feel is in the Church.

Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict have (and continue to do in the case of the latter pope) done much to reverse the effects of liberalism in the Church, in fact, our current pope is doing a lot to stem liturgical abuses and bring back “sacredness” to the liturgy. God bless.

Edit: The doctrines of the Church can never change no matter the cultural/secular influence on Catholic laity and/or clergy.

 

[Mickey]

Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict have (and continue to do in the case of the latter pope) done much to reverse the effects of liberalism in the Church, in fact, our current pope is doing a lot to stem liturgical abuses and bring back “sacredness” to the liturgy. God bless.

It would be wonderful if Pope Benedict could crack down on the thousands of reiki new age nuns–the same ones who publicly endorsed Obamacare. Let us hope that the Vatican investigation that began in July 2009 can put these radical feminist new agers out of business.

Edit: And let us also hope that we never again hear of the likes of Roman Catholic clown Masses or Halloween Masses.

 

[jam070406]

Careful who you call schismatic. The Orthodox have another view about that.

I didn’t call anyone schismatic.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

And the priorities at a local level are odd also. Our monsignor gave us a long lecture about how we shouldn’t give our little children snacks or water in the church, “this isn’t a picnic!” he bellowed. But he’s ok with communion in the hand, people holding hands during the Our Father, nobody bowing during the incarnation language in the Creed, people wearing Levis and sexually-provocative t-shirts, people walking in and out and to and fro, babies screaming and wailing, and yet he gets mad at folks like my wife and I who give them a small quiet snack to help get them through to lunch and stay quiet and respectful. Sheesh…My mom has Parkinson’s and has to drink water constantly due to the dry mouth and other effects of her meds. But that thought never crossed his mind. We’ve been getting a lot of ‘lectures’ as of late. I could tell you some stories…ay yay yay…

It would be wonderful if Pope Benedict could crack down on the thousands of reiki new age nuns–the same ones who publicly endorsed Obamacare. Let us hope that the Vatican investigation that began in July 2009 can put these radical feminist new agers out of business.

Edit: And let us also hope that we never again hear of the likes of Roman Catholic clown Masses or Halloween Masses.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

When my wife and I attended a “Mass” at Morro Bay, along the coast, on a vacation about five years ago, the priest had posters out around the entrance for Deepok Choprah meditation and self-realization seminars, Zen meditation, and other bizarre stuff. He also dispensed with the Creed and they had their own bizarre version that was sung to the tune of black spiritual Civil War style Baptist tunes. He had people walk all over the room to shake hands during the peace, his sermon was nonsensical, and when kids came up during communion for a blessing, I kid you not, he took them under his robe and rubbed himself against them and shook and shimmied himself around. The kids came out of his robe giggling and laughing. It was the most bizarre and diabolical “mass” I have ever attended. I wrote a letter to the Bishop of Monterey about it but of course never received a reply. There isn’t the crackdown people claim there is. Look at Obama at Georetown and Notre Dame. No reform there. Look at the Obamacare nuns. That stuff all chaps my hide almost as much as the aiding and abetting illegal immigrants breaking the laws of the land. That stuff gets me hot. There is PPPPPLENTY of area for needed reform! I agree wtih your sentiments on that!

It would be wonderful if Pope Benedict could crack down on the thousands of reiki new age nuns–the same ones who publicly endorsed Obamacare. Let us hope that the Vatican investigation that began in July 2009 can put these radical feminist new agers out of business.

Edit: And let us also hope that we never again hear of the likes of Roman Catholic clown Masses or Halloween Masses.

 

[Mickey]

And the priorities at a local level are odd also. Our monsignor gave us a long lecture about how we shouldn’t give our little children snacks or water in the church, “this isn’t a picnic!” he bellowed. But he’s ok with communion in the hand, people holding hands during the Our Father, nobody bowing during the incarnation language in the Creed, people wearing Levis and sexually-provocative t-shirts, people walking in and out and to and fro, babies screaming and wailing, and yet he gets mad at folks like my wife and I who give them a small quiet snack to help get them through to lunch and stay quiet and respectful. Sheesh…My mom has Parkinson’s and has to drink water constantly due to the dry mouth and other effects of her meds. But that thought never crossed his mind. We’ve been getting a lot of ‘lectures’ as of late. I could tell you some stories…ay yay yay…

Wow! That’s a bummer, Scott! Our priest allows all the toddlers (including mine) to have a snack and a drink during the Liturgy (which is sometimes two hours long) as they use their coloring books. It keeps them very quiet and content and it does not interfere with the Communion fast (because the fast does not yet apply to them).

 

[Mickey]

When my wife and I attended a “Mass” at Morro Bay, along the coast, on a vacation about five years ago, the priest had posters out around the entrance for Deepok Choprah meditation and self-realization seminars, Zen meditation, and other bizarre stuff. He also dispensed with the Creed and they had their own bizarre version that was sung to the tune of black spiritual Civil War style Baptist tunes. He had people walk all over the room to shake hands during the peace, his sermon was nonsensical, and when kids came up during communion for a blessing, I kid you not, he took them under his robe and rubbed himself against them and shook and shimmied himself around. The kids came out of his robe giggling and laughing. It was the most bizarre and diabolical “mass” I have ever attended. I wrote a letter to the Bishop of Monterey about it but of course never received a reply. There isn’t the crackdown people claim there is. Look at Obama at Georetown and Notre Dame. No reform there. Look at the Obamacare nuns. That stuff all chaps my hide almost as much as the aiding and abetting illegal immigrants breaking the laws of the land. That stuff gets me hot. There is PPPPPLENTY of area for needed reform! I agree wtih your sentiments on that!

Yes. It used to turn my stomach. I even wrote letters to the Vatican when I was Eastern Catholic. One time, while fuming about the Deepok Choprah nuns, I wrote a letter to Fr Pacwa regarding one of the abominable new age “Catholic” retreat centers. To his credit, he responded about one year later. He said that there is nothing that can be done about it–and to tell people not to attend.

I could never understand why the bishops would not intervene?

But I had already converted to Orthodoxy by then.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

If I had a dollar for every “hey, priests are only human” and “nothing we can do” that I’ve received in emails or verbally in the Church, I’d be Trump! “You’re fired!” LOL

Yeah, it’s frustrating. The snack thing really bugged me. I wrote the monsignor an email last night; you watch, he won’t reply. He never does. The assistant priests won’t either. Our monsignor told my chiropractor, when he was going through a crisis of faith, to stop reading the catechism; he said it’s the most boring and pointless book in the world, only good for putting someone to sleep. He said he uses it to get to bed at night…nice lol

Yes. It used to turn my stomach. I even wrote letters to the Vatican when I was Eastern Catholic. One time, while fuming about the Deepok Choprah nuns, I wrote a letter to Fr Pacwa regarding one of the abominable new age “Catholic” retreat centers. To his credit, he responded about one year later. He said that there is nothing that can be done about it–and to tell people not to attend.

I could never understand why the bishops would not intervene?

But I had already converted to Orthodoxy by then.

 

[lemonbeam]

The number of Catholic clergy who abused minors is no higher than clergy of other denominations, and no higher than the general adult male population estimation.

Sexual Abuse in Social Context: Clergy and Other Professionals is a scholarly work that shows sexual abuse is not particularly prevalent within the Catholic hierarchy and that abuse is significantly higher among public school teachers than among ministers and priests.

A Perspective on Clergy Sexual Abuse By Thomas Plante, Ph.D., ABPP, Department of Psychology, Santa Clara University says:

However, although good data is hard to acquire, it appears that this 2 to 5% figure is consistent with male clergy from other religious traditions and is lower than the general adult male population that is best estimated to be closer to 8%. Therefore, the odds that any random Catholic priest would sexually abuse a minor are not likely to be significantly higher than other males in or out of the clergy. Of course we expect better behavior from priests than from the average man on the street. While even one priest who abuses children is a major problem, we need to keep this issue in perspective and remember that the vast majority of priests do not abuse children.

psychwww.com/psyrelig/plante.html

 

[SSTeacher]

The number of Catholic clergy who abused minors is no higher than clergy of other denominations, and no higher than the general adult male population estimation.

But don’t you expect your priests to aspire to holiness and consistently rise above the average?

Curiously,
Mick

 

[lax16]

I have to be honest, these new revelations of abuse have me shaken up. That they go as far as to implicate the pope himself in it.

And the modernism and accommodation or heretics and unbelievers.

Could I have made the wrong choice in becoming Catholic?

I am thinking about checking out Orthodoxy. I have not considered doing this in the 2 years that I have been a Catholic. But now, it seems to me that they arent suffering from the corruption that we are.

Thoughts?

What is exactly meant by Orthodoxy?

 

[lemonbeam]

But don’t you expect your priests to aspire to holiness and consistently rise above the average?

Curiously,
Mick

Of course! But you could say the same for Orthodox Priests, because according to the statistics I gave above, the rate of Catholic Priests abusing minors is no higher than that of Orthodox Priests abusing minors.

 

[SSTeacher]

SSTeacher;6435313:

But don’t you expect your priests to aspire to holiness and consistently rise above the average?

Curiously,
Mick

Of course! But you could say the same for Orthodox Priests, because according to the statistics I gave above, the rate of Catholic Priests abusing minors is no higher than that of Orthodox Priests abusing minors.

Indeed, one could say whatever one wanted about anybody or anything. And in the face of the great damage has been done to the Church and to the public perception of the priesthood and religious life, it’s understandable that some Catholics might feel prompted to try to minimise this scandal by quoting statistics in order to demonstrate that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. But is that wise? Why not just declare that these abusers betrayed the trust that was placed in them and that they must answer for what they did – you know, like the Holy Father did in his pastoral letter? Some will doubtless criticize him for his wording but I think it’s worth noting that he made no attempt to minimize the sins that these people committed by pointing to the sins of other people. Here’s Section 7:

7. To priests and religious who have abused children:

You betrayed the trust that was placed in you by innocent young people and their parents, and you must answer for it before Almighty God and before properly constituted tribunals. You have forfeited the esteem of the people of Ireland and brought shame and dishonour upon your confreres. Those of you who are priests violated the sanctity of the sacrament of Holy Orders in which Christ makes himself present in us and in our actions. Together with the immense harm done to victims, great damage has been done to the Church and to the public perception of the priesthood and religious life.

I urge you to examine your conscience, take responsibility for the sins you have committed, and humbly express your sorrow. Sincere repentance opens the door to God’s forgiveness and the grace of true amendment. By offering prayers and penances for those you have wronged, you should seek to atone personally for your actions. Christ’s redeeming sacrifice has the power to forgive even the gravest of sins, and to bring forth good from even the most terrible evil. At the same time, God’s justice summons us to give an account of our actions and to conceal nothing. Openly acknowledge your guilt, submit yourselves to the demands of justice, but do not despair of God’s mercy.

I think this is very encouraging (click here for the complete text). I hope the Original Poster is also encouraged by it and will in turn encourage fellow Catholics who are naturally distraught about the whole sad business.

Approvingly,
Mick

 

[lemonbeam]

Indeed, one could say whatever one wanted about anybody or anything. And in the face of the great damage has been done to the Church and to the public perception of the priesthood and religious life, it’s understandable that some Catholics might feel prompted to try to minimise this scandal by quoting statistics in order to demonstrate that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. But is that wise? Why not just declare that these abusers betrayed the trust that was placed in them and that they must answer for what they did – you know, like the Holy Father did in his pastoral letter? Some will doubtless criticize him for his wording but I think it’s worth noting that he made no attempt to minimize the sins that these people committed by pointing to the sins of other people. Here’s Section 7:

I think this is very encouraging (click here for the complete text). I hope the Original Poster is also encouraged by it and will in turn encourage fellow Catholics who are naturally distraught about the whole sad business.

Approvingly,
Mick

I agree with the statement that you made, but the reason the original poster said they where considering the Orthodox Church is because of this sex abuse scandal in the Catholic Church. The fact is is this happens in the Orthodox Church, and by converting to Orthodoxy, scandals are going to happen as well, except you don’t hear much about them in the media because they are hushed up. Statistics are important because they put things in perspective. I don’t think it’s a good reason to want to convert to another Church because of a scandal which is going on in the Church you are considering converting to.

All Priests need out prayers, so they don’t abuse positions of trust.