I am considering the Orthodox Church

[SSTeacher]

lemonbeam;6437520:

The fact is is this happens in the Orthodox Church, and by converting to Orthodoxy, scandals are going to happen as well, except you don’t hear much about them in the media because they are hushed up.

If you say so.

SSTeacher;6438311:

If you say so.

It’s not if I say so, it’s according to the statistics and to the following article:

sfweekly.com/2002-05-22/news/un-orthodox-behavior/

• Three S.F. women are working to expose cases within the Orthodox Church.

*The lack of response is typical in the Orthodox Church, says Dr. Lucas. “There’s a pattern of keeping things quiet, avoiding a scandal,” he says. “In the interest of keeping it hush-hush, they’ll send the priest away without informing other people.”
*

---

So you see, there have been cover ups in the Orthodox Church too.

Apologies. If Dr. Lucas says so.

Correctively,
Mick

 

[crazzeto]

I have to be honest, these new revelations of abuse have me shaken up. That they go as far as to implicate the pope himself in it.

And the modernism and accommodation or heretics and unbelievers.

Could I have made the wrong choice in becoming Catholic?

I am thinking about checking out Orthodoxy. I have not considered doing this in the 2 years that I have been a Catholic. But now, it seems to me that they arent suffering from the corruption that we are.

Thoughts?

I’m thinking that you shouldn’t leave the Church just because of the personal sins of some in the Church. In fact, I think you should bare in mind the sins of the first Pontiff, denying Christ thrice. The Roman Sea is the only Sea which has never taught error.

As far as “modernism” and “accommodation of heritics and unbelievers”, I’m really not sure what you’re referring to. The Church is fighting modernism, with the true authority granted the Magisterium, something which the Orthodox really can’t do as they lack governance. I would suggest you pray on this matter, and not make any snap judgments.

 

[Mickey]

Assuming that at some time in the future the Original Poster experiences a Divine Liturgy then the principle lex orandi, lex credendi will probably come into play. In other words, nobody should be surprised to discover that the Church which claims to embody the fullness of Truth worships in a way that is reverent and beautiful and aesthetically pleasing. The rule of prayer is the rule of faith.

 

[Mickey]

I think you should bare in mind the sins of the first Pontiff, denying Christ thrice.

St Peter was a Roman pontiff!?!

The Roman Sea is the only Sea…

FYI—It is spelled “See”.

 

[lax16]

Okay, thanks for that info!

My next question is:

If someone is not Greek, Russian, etc. how would they choose an Orthodox Church?

Isn’t that why there’s Catholicism, you know, the “universal” Church?

 

[Mickey]

My next question is:

If someone is not Greek, Russian, etc. how would they choose an Orthodox Church?

Isn’t that why there’s Catholicism, you know, the “universal” Church?

The Holy Orthodox Church is unted by Her common faith. I have communed at the Russian, OCA, Greek, and Antiochian Orthodox Churches–and I am Italian/German originally born and raised Latin Catholic.

 

[Nine_Two]

Okay, thanks for that info!

My next question is:

If someone is not Greek, Russian, etc. how would they choose an Orthodox Church?

Isn’t that why there’s Catholicism, you know, the “universal” Church?

Membership in Orthodox Churches is not based on Ethnicity. The terms don’t even mean anything. “Greek Orthodox” refers to about half a dozen Churches (in North America it is usually used to refer to the EP’s Archdiocese of North America), Russian Orthodox refers to fewer, but can still mean several different Churches, in North America there is no standard one to which it refers.
However the titles are historical, or refer to where the See from which they are ruled is located. To say “Greek Orthodox” is really no different than saying “Latin Catholic”, a Catholic in the Latin tradition vs. an Orthodox in the Greek tradition.

 

[Nine_Two]

Apologies. If Dr. Lucas says so.

Correctively,
Mick

I’m curious what that poster thinks should be done when such scandals are unearthed? Loudly shout about it and then let the priest continue working? The Scandals in the Catholic Church have largely been because the priests haven’t been sent away. Quietly defrocking the priests seems like the most Christian way to do it.

 

[lemonbeam]

What statistics?
You have linked to an article from eight years ago. Any follow-ups?

I am not saying that the Holy Orthodox Church does not have sinners, but I think your “statistics” and “evidence” for widespread sexual abuse in the Holy Orthodox Church is very weak indeed.

The number of Catholic clergy who abused minors is no higher than clergy of other denominations, and no higher than the general adult male population estimation.

Sexual Abuse in Social Context: Clergy and Other Professionals is a scholarly work that shows sexual abuse is not particularly prevalent within the Catholic hierarchy and that abuse is significantly higher among public school teachers than among ministers and priests.

A Perspective on Clergy Sexual Abuse By Thomas Plante, Ph.D., ABPP, Department of Psychology, Santa Clara University says:

However, although good data is hard to acquire, it appears that this 2 to 5% figure is consistent with male clergy from other religious traditions and is lower than the general adult male population that is best estimated to be closer to 8%. Therefore, the odds that any random Catholic priest would sexually abuse a minor are not likely to be significantly higher than other males in or out of the clergy. Of course we expect better behavior from priests than from the average man on the street. While even one priest who abuses children is a major problem, we need to keep this issue in perspective and remember that the vast majority of priests do not abuse children.

psychwww.com/psyrelig/plante.html

To the linked article I gave you from 8 years ago, I think the same people are continuing to run Pokrov, a resource for survivers of abuse in Orthodox Churches.

Search for ‘sex abuse cases Orthodox Church’ into google. The cases are numerous. Some of the more recent ones I could find:

jacksonville.com/news/metro/2009-01-28/story/greek_church_settles_sex_abuse_case

rickross.com/reference/clergy/clergy887.html

hocna.info/

pokrov.org/displays.asp?ds=Convicted

ucanews.com/2010/03/05/orthodox-priest-arrested-for-sexual-abuse/

dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/religion/stories/102908dnmetsettle.15ddac6aa.html

 

[crazzeto]

St Peter was a Roman pontiff!?!

Sure was

FYI—It is spelled “See”.

Thanks for pointing out my typo.

 

[lax16]

Membership in Orthodox Churches is not based on Ethnicity. The terms don’t even mean anything. “Greek Orthodox” refers to about half a dozen Churches (in North America it is usually used to refer to the EP’s Archdiocese of North America), Russian Orthodox refers to fewer, but can still mean several different Churches, in North America there is no standard one to which it refers.
However the titles are historical, or refer to where the See from which they are ruled is located. To say “Greek Orthodox” is really no different than saying “Latin Catholic”, a Catholic in the Latin tradition vs. an Orthodox in the Greek tradition.

So you are saying that there is nothing really “Greek” about the Greek Orthodox Church or that one would not find many Greeks there?

I did not mean to imply that membership in the Orthodox Churches is based upon ethnicity, but rather, that one would find a high percentage of Greeks or Greek Americans at a Greek Orthodox Church or Russians at a Russian Orthodox Church etc.

Also, why are there many Orthodox Churches, as opposed to one?

Thanks for the answers - I’ve always wondered about the Orthodox Churches.

 

[lemonbeam]

Apologies. If Dr. Lucas says so.

Correctively,
Mick

I’ve provided more links for your fellow follower of Orthodoxy Mickey.

 

[lemonbeam]

I’m curious what that poster thinks should be done when such scandals are unearthed? Loudly shout about it and then let the priest continue working? The Scandals in the Catholic Church have largely been because the priests haven’t been sent away. Quietly defrocking the priests seems like the most Christian way to do it.

So you think that it would be better for the Orthodox Priests that did commit abuse not be reported and to be put on trial?

As I wrote on another article on the Catholic News forum, I believe there have been scandals in the Catholic Church because when they found out about individual sex abuse Priests, some Bishops or other Priests wanted to be compassionate and so they sought therapy for them, trying to ‘‘cure’’ them instead of reporting them, and that’s how the cover up started. They didn’t learn from repeat offenders and then it became public. The recent cases now emerging in Austria and Germany, like those that have shocked the American, Canadian, Irish and Australian churches, all date back 20, 30 and even 50 years. They are not repeatable. There are now child protection systems in place in Churches which have been judged by outside experts to be working well.

I see no reason to think this is not the same route some in the orthodox hierarchy took when they found out about Priests that has been abusing minors, and thats why there have been scandals and cover ups in the Orthodox Church.

 

[guanophore]

Who is attacking the Church? The (small percentage) of Priests and secrecy of the hierarchy seems to be attacking itself quite nicely.

Satan is trying to strike at the shepherds to scatter the flock. It is a very effective method, as this thread demonstrates.

 

[crazzeto]

So you think that it would be better for the Orthodox Priests that did commit abuse not be reported and to be put on trial?

Depends upon how the scandal “comes to light”, no one is suggesting that we should not persue justice in such cases certainly. But Cardinal Ratzinger was quite correct when he wrote that letter regarding the earlier abuses. It would be immoral for the Church to publicize cases, and putting the victem in the spotlight when that might not be what is best for them (and may also be against their wishes). He was also quite correct with regard for the need to maintain the seceracy of the Confessional, so certainly confessors shouldnt’ go to the police when they hear confession (that isn’t to say they shouldn’t recommend offending priests take such action into their own hands).

It’s a difficult matter to handle, one must maintain the dignaty of the victem (as much as possible) while also protecting them and others from an offending priest.

 

[lemonbeam]

Depends upon how the scandal “comes to light”, no one is suggesting that we should not persue justice in such cases certainly. But Cardinal Ratzinger was quite correct when he wrote that letter regarding the earlier abuses. It would be immoral for the Church to publicize cases, and putting the victem in the spotlight when that might not be what is best for them (and may also be against their wishes). He was also quite correct with regard for the need to maintain the seceracy of the Confessional, so certainly confessors shouldnt’ go to the police when they hear confession (that isn’t to say they shouldn’t recommend offending priests take such action into their own hands).

It’s a difficult matter to handle, one must maintain the dignaty of the victem (as much as possible) while also protecting them and others from an offending priest.

I have to agree with you.

 

[SSTeacher]

SSTeacher;6439215:

Apologies. If Dr. Lucas

says so.

Correctively,
Mick
:thumbsup:I’ve provided more links for your fellow follower of Orthodoxy Mickey.

Well done! B+ for effort.

Gratuitously,
Mick

 

[Hesychios]

St Peter was a Roman pontiff!?!

Sure was

At the time of Saint Peter, that would have been insulting to say, and he would have been horrified to hear the term used in his own case.

The college of pontiffs were pagan priests for the city of Rome. The Pontifex Maximus was the chief among them, and among his duties were the selection of young women to serve the goddess Vesta in her temple.

This is most certainly not a title that should be used anachronistically, but instead avoided in referring to bishops for the first three centuries at least.

It might be better to drop the title altogether, it is unbecoming for a Christian priest or bishop. :sad_yes:

 

[onacloudyday]

I have to be honest, these new revelations of abuse have me shaken up. That they go as far as to implicate the pope himself in it.

And the modernism and accommodation or heretics and unbelievers.

Could I have made the wrong choice in becoming Catholic?

I am thinking about checking out Orthodoxy. I have not considered doing this in the 2 years that I have been a Catholic. But now, it seems to me that they arent suffering from the corruption that we are.

Thoughts?

i dont think that someone else sin is a reason to change a church.

i heard on bbc that when the catholic pope was not pope he had 1,000 priests and that one of those priests he let in his diocese to keep safe from charges was a sex abuse priest but that someone says that he knew about the abuse priest but did not allow him to know. i think it to be more chance that he did know since that is big deal but maybe not. maybe hiding from him. as christians should not be to judge others. possible that he did not know. benefit of doubt. God know.

if that is only reason dont change church. only change church for belief.

i never heard of orthodox church having sex abuse, but i did see on the internet that a attorney in texas is looking for people who were abuse by orthodox priests. i dont know why or if there any. hope no.

i dont think corruption in orthodox. there is some dispute between people in ecumenical orthodox church or old calendar orthodox church. im learning now. there is some problem i think.

sinners are everywhere.

you believe now everything catholic teaching? only upset with abuse? yes? stay catholic. no? then check.

 

[Nine_Two]

So you think that it would be better for the Orthodox Priests that did commit abuse not be reported and to be put on trial?

As the Church is not the victim in the case that is not their role. The victim should be given counciling and encouraged to go forward to the proper authorities, and the Church should be cooperative in any investigation, but reporting the crime is not something for the Church to do.

You’ll note the distinction here between actions that should be taken, and actions the Church should take.