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vsedriver
Guest
I think it would be wise to inform the wives or girl friends of these men. Maybe they won’t think it is so funny then.
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bitterhope
Guest
Yes I agree. It happens a lot in life that people react too strongly on emotion without thinking things through. No one thinks this is a funny situation or thinks it is a good thing. Everyone can see how stupid it is. Too often people burn bridges that cannot be rebuilt.
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DoxieMama
Guest
I’m sorry, I haven’t read all the replies to your first post, so I have no idea if what I’m about to say has been said already. But, I would maybe mention this to the priest, who can talk to the Men’s group that this behavior will not be tolerated.
Also, men randomly coming up to you and asking if you enjoyed those texts. That’s creepy and I feel a type of sexual harassment.
Also, men randomly coming up to you and asking if you enjoyed those texts. That’s creepy and I feel a type of sexual harassment.
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MamaJewel
Guest
Ophelia,
I am so sorry that this happened. But in my humble opinion, what happened is an indicator that things are amiss in many ways. First, I think that there are some very deep seated issues that your husband is dealing with. Second, I think that there are potential issues in the men who joined in.
I can respect and appreciate why you were so frustrated though. And if you do speak with the priest, he should very well gather the Men’s club together and explain what will and will not be tolerated by the Church and the spiritual reasons for it. As the shepherd of his flock, he has every right to instruct and counsel since it would be a spiritual work of mercy to do so.
As I sit here, I can only wonder what Jesus or Joseph would have done if such texts had been sent to Momma Mary. I don’t think we would argue that it was all in drunken fun that these men did this. We’d expect accountability.
I say this because on way too many occasions during my entire life, I tolerated sexual harassment or worse and wrote it off, one way or another. With counseling and group support, I have learned that unacceptable actions can be, and often are an indication that there is something more serious currently happening or waiting to happen in the future.It truly is that saying, “Past behaviors are a good predictor of future behaviors”.
In my honest opinion, I wonder if you are the first woman this has happened to from this group of rascals. If yes, then thanks be to God. You can connect with your priest and ask him to nip these behaviors in the bud so no other woman receives the same treatment in the future. If this kind of thing has been done to other wives or women, well, then the priest has more to deal with.
But either way, you don’t deserve to be treated the way you were. These men know better, and if they don’t, the priest needs to wisen them up asap.
I am so sorry that this happened. But in my humble opinion, what happened is an indicator that things are amiss in many ways. First, I think that there are some very deep seated issues that your husband is dealing with. Second, I think that there are potential issues in the men who joined in.
I can respect and appreciate why you were so frustrated though. And if you do speak with the priest, he should very well gather the Men’s club together and explain what will and will not be tolerated by the Church and the spiritual reasons for it. As the shepherd of his flock, he has every right to instruct and counsel since it would be a spiritual work of mercy to do so.
As I sit here, I can only wonder what Jesus or Joseph would have done if such texts had been sent to Momma Mary. I don’t think we would argue that it was all in drunken fun that these men did this. We’d expect accountability.
I say this because on way too many occasions during my entire life, I tolerated sexual harassment or worse and wrote it off, one way or another. With counseling and group support, I have learned that unacceptable actions can be, and often are an indication that there is something more serious currently happening or waiting to happen in the future.It truly is that saying, “Past behaviors are a good predictor of future behaviors”.
In my honest opinion, I wonder if you are the first woman this has happened to from this group of rascals. If yes, then thanks be to God. You can connect with your priest and ask him to nip these behaviors in the bud so no other woman receives the same treatment in the future. If this kind of thing has been done to other wives or women, well, then the priest has more to deal with.
But either way, you don’t deserve to be treated the way you were. These men know better, and if they don’t, the priest needs to wisen them up asap.
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Ophelia23
Guest
Friends,
I am so sorry to have caused any division or friction here on CAF. I appreciate so many people coming to my defense, but I also humbly ask we keep perspective. My husband is not a bad man–I really don’t think there was anything malicious. They thought they were being funny, I didn’t find it funny, and I was hurt that rather than supporting me and my offense he belittled me further and supported his group. I know this is indicative of much deeper problems… we work through them daily.
It hurts me to think I’ve painted my husband in a negative light. It was in weakness that I posted in the first place.
We all have burdens and crosses we are to carry. I married a sick man, and it is rooted so much more deeply than I ever realized. There is so very much more than I am willing to say regarding what happened these past few nights. There is no free pass, and he understands that. I was embarrassed by the men coming up to me the next day. I was hurt by his defending them rather than consoling me. I came here–albeit perhaps rashly–because I do not have somebody to talk to about these things. I keep it from my family because I do not want to poison that well. It is so important to me that my parents have a good relationship with him. I don’t discuss it with my friends, because I don’t want them to see my husband in a poor light. And usually, I don’t discuss it here because he gets really torn apart.
My intentions are never to tear him down or to line him up to be torn down. I so love each of you for having my back–for praying for me, for defending me, for supporting me–and I humbly ask that you please offer prayers for my husband’s healing.
With gentle love in Christ,
Ophelia.
I am so sorry to have caused any division or friction here on CAF. I appreciate so many people coming to my defense, but I also humbly ask we keep perspective. My husband is not a bad man–I really don’t think there was anything malicious. They thought they were being funny, I didn’t find it funny, and I was hurt that rather than supporting me and my offense he belittled me further and supported his group. I know this is indicative of much deeper problems… we work through them daily.
It hurts me to think I’ve painted my husband in a negative light. It was in weakness that I posted in the first place.
We all have burdens and crosses we are to carry. I married a sick man, and it is rooted so much more deeply than I ever realized. There is so very much more than I am willing to say regarding what happened these past few nights. There is no free pass, and he understands that. I was embarrassed by the men coming up to me the next day. I was hurt by his defending them rather than consoling me. I came here–albeit perhaps rashly–because I do not have somebody to talk to about these things. I keep it from my family because I do not want to poison that well. It is so important to me that my parents have a good relationship with him. I don’t discuss it with my friends, because I don’t want them to see my husband in a poor light. And usually, I don’t discuss it here because he gets really torn apart.
My intentions are never to tear him down or to line him up to be torn down. I so love each of you for having my back–for praying for me, for defending me, for supporting me–and I humbly ask that you please offer prayers for my husband’s healing.
With gentle love in Christ,
Ophelia.
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kptrs
Guest
Prayers offered
For what it is worth, I do just want to say your husband is a lucky man to be married to a wife who gives him so much unconditional love. May I say that you are exceptional in your patience and understanding of his illness.
Just please don’t feel bad about needing your feelings validated, and remember to take care of yourself physically and emotionally. I commend you for not talking about this to people in “real life” lest they develop a negative image of your husband. You are also right that things escalate pretty quickly here on CAF. You just get so many different opinions and emotions running together, and it can easily get out of control.
I’d like to make the offer for you to private message me if you need to talk. If nothing else, I’ll just be there to listen.
Once again, I really commend you for being the person you are. You are a role model for wives everywhere. :hug3:
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Xantippe
Guest
Yes.Prayers offered
For what it is worth, I do just want to say your husband is a lucky man to be married to a wife who gives him so much unconditional love. May I say that you are exceptional in your patience and understanding of his illness.
Just please don’t feel bad about needing your feelings validated, and remember to take care of yourself physically and emotionally. I commend you for not talking about this to people in “real life” lest they develop a negative image of your husband.
But feel free to talk to your priest or a therapist.
While you’re taking care of your husband and your kids, somebody needs to be taking care of you.
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kptrs
Guest
Yes. Talk to an objective third party, as they call them.
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hydin
Guest
I was not clear on what I meant about looking for a reason for his actions. I wasn’t thinking of some wild, perverted reason for him doing this. I was thinking more about what from the marriage caused his passive aggressive action of suggesting the other men do this then actually letting them do it. Again, not that it justifies his behavior but men normally do not act this way if things are just the way they want it at home. He was feeling something that caused him to want to lash out at her… knowing it would hurt her but in a way he could deny or belittle the seriousness of his actions. Unfortunately I speak on that topic as one who both experienced it and practiced it all too often. If PA was a sport both of our numbers would have been retired. Not proud of that but it is the truth. I am not that guy anymore… but I remember well how the game was played. Passive aggressive behavior is usually a response to hurt, justified or not - it makes sense to him, at the time. I encourage all to check out Alturtle.com totally free site (except if you want him to read the articles to you… do that once to get his voice…) full of wisdom presented softly so you are drawn in but not defensive. Everyone makes sense all the time. No one ever agrees with you (completely), sometimes they tell you. This is the most valuable sentence a man can learn, “what are you needing from me now?” (do you need me to just listen? to support your thoughts? or FIX IT… we guys love to fix things. Usually we jump right in… and end up in trouble (as we should).
As far as venting, needing that is certainly understandable. You need someone to vent to. Choose who it is carefully and let them know, if it is ok with them,you may vent when you get to your limit with your husband. Make sure they understand they are just hearing your side of the story. Venting or getting marriage advice from strangers or faceless posters leaves one open to hearing advice that questionable at best. Could be a hurt spouse pushing what they wish they could do/had done to their spouse… or worse, a person who just wants to stir the pot in a relationship they have no part in. Could also be some guy who thinks he has learned stuff the hard way but really has no idea what he is talking about… always do what you think is correct for your situation. When getting advice from anyone two classic reminders (I still struggle with…ugh…) 1 you do not have to take it (duh!) and 2 you do not have to tell the person giving the advice you are not gong to take it. (wisdom!!!) It is as simple as responding with “thanks, I hadn’t thought of it that way.” Take what is of value and trash the rest. If something is not working… stop trying it and do something else. Change you, that is the only person you can change. Hopefully they see you changing and it causes them to change as well. That part stinks but is true.
reminder - you are not responsible for his feelings… you can’t make him feel anything. You can’t make him happy or sad just as you can’t make him gain or lose weight. It is his choice. Ask Mary and St. Joseph to pray for you and for your husband. Ask the Holy Spirit to intercede and soften his heart. St. Joesph is the ultimate husband - married perfection and raised God… sure he had special Graces but dang, what a situation for a guy to be in. He married a pregnant woman and couldn’t tell his friends or family the true story. Died before Jesus revealed Himself…
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AKDee
Guest
Personally I’m appalled. This type of behavior is normal for secular people or even maybe teenagers, but for grown men involved in a religious mens group from CHURCH?
They are supposed to encourage each other to walk in the way of Christ, not get drunk and make sexually suggestive remarks to another man’s wife.
Very inappropriate. I wish I had words of advice.
They are supposed to encourage each other to walk in the way of Christ, not get drunk and make sexually suggestive remarks to another man’s wife.
Very inappropriate. I wish I had words of advice.
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Xantippe
Guest
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dmftx
Guest
THANK YOU! What happens between the OP and her husband is between them. I can only imagine all the different emotions that she has and is experiencing. Their relationship is not our business but our business, by virtue of being part of this forum, is the Catholic Church.
I think that the real issue, in relation to that parish and the Catholic Church, in general, seems to have gotten lost. I am not fond of any “boys will be boys” mentality but I have zero tolerance when it involves a parish’s men’s group who were together as part of that group. I don’t think OP should feel any reluctance to report this to the pastor and, as stated in an earlier post, to provide evidence of the texts with pertinent names, etc. blacked out. The pastor can determine how to deal with this but he deserves to know and should know.
Let me put this another way, if a group of my employees or volunteers engaged in something like this while representing our schools or an organization that is part of our schools, you better believe that something would be done.
We are not talking about people who are not paid anyway getting fired, or getting their names put in a bulletin, or whatever…we are talking about righting a wrong that does not necessarily need to be done publicly. If the group is disbanded due to improper conduct then that is what happens and more power to a pastor who would use an example such as this to demonstrate that ALWAYS God’s will should be done.
LaughingBoy1503
Well-known member
Sorry that happened to you. It is not funny and I do not see how anyone other than maybe a very immature teenager would find what those men did to you funny. If you think telling your priest would remedy the situation I would do it if these men got drunk on Church property or while hosting something Church related. I would not go as far as to tell their wives and all that. Other than that, I would just try to forget it and move on. It was not right what happened but do not give it any more power over you. It will only hold you down. Sad to say, but we need to be a little thick skinned in life. It seems others would want you to run around yelling “OUTRAGE, OUTRAGE” to everyone at the parish but this situation would probably go away quicker if you let it die out instead of bring it up more. Sorry that your husband is going through some tough times and as a result you share in those tough times. I think you would know if your husband was drinking too much. If this is a isolated incident of him getting drunk, it does not mean that he is a alcoholic and needs A.A. Though the 12 step program can be helpful to some, it is not that only answer to drinking or even one of the best in my opinion. It is just free, that is why it is so popular. And I have done the 12 step thing. Not my cup of tea. Made me want to drink more. Everyone that has gotten drunk does not have a problem with drinking. Though I hope you husband does understand that getting drunk is a grave matter and if done on purpose, it can be a mortal sin.More than anything, this is just a rant.
Yesterday evening, my husband was volunteering for our Church’s spring festival by helping out with bingo. Other guys from the Men’s Club were helping, too. He said he would be home around 10-10:30. He wasn’t home at that time, but I didn’t worry–I just went to bed on my own. I’ve got small kids. Mornings come very early.
Around 11:30, I got a hugely suggestive text from him. Several texts, actually. Saying things like, when he gets home I’d better run, that he’s ready to go and I need to be ready and waiting, and that he’s going to make me scream and sing. I got the feeling it wasn’t him because he just… it didn’t seem like him. Turns out, another man from men’s club was texting me as my husband. I was not happy about this. When he got home, he was so incredibly drunk. I told him what had happened and how it made me feel, and he laughed. I went from being irritated to being downright angry. He said that the other guy just took his phone and was having fun. I think it’s gross that anybody other than my husband put me in that context. I’m irritated that it got me out of bed for foolery. Well…
Today I went with our kids up to the spring festival so they could play the games. No lie, 5 different men from Men’s Club came up to me at different times this afternoon and said things like, “So, how’d you like those texts??” One actually came up to me and said that he thinks I’m owed an apology. But the fact is, ALL of the men knew what had happened. And what’s even worse, they told me how it happened. My husband OFFERED for them to do it. He gave over his phone declaring “Who wants to text my wife??”
I’m livid. I’m embarrassed. I’m… if I go by the reactions of the men from the club, I’m overreacting. But I don’t appreciate being teh subject of a dirty joke. Poke fun at me all you want, and I can take it AND dish it. But bedroom jokes? Offering for other men to try to make me blush? I feel dirty. Yucky. And while my husband has apologized, after all of the men coming up to me today I feel like I want a whole additional apology on top of it!
I’ve been praying the Rosary a lot more lately, and I happen to be in the middle of a novena for grace. I’m trying to handle the whole situation at church gracefully, but I honestly and genuinely feel disgraced and embarrassed.
I would just tell the priest if you think it would make you feel better and then let it go. It will be forgotten about quicker that way, and you can just move on. Hopefully those men who did this grow up, but there is no way you can help speed a long the process sadly. Take care and God bless.
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The_Old_Maid
Guest
First three reactions:
- A pity that one can’t tell the pastor’s wife, who tells the pastor quietly, who can then take steps regarding a men’s group that supposedly meets to help him feed the sheep and tend the lambs.
- A man expected his wife to entertain his drunken frat-boy buddies wearing her crown (and, it is implied in some translations, nothing else).
- It sounds as if they’re going to get away with it because the target was not-their-wife/not-their-daughter. It’s hard to teach our daughters that they should report it if it happens to them, but if we tell their moms they shouldn’t, why should the daughters report it?
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The_Old_Maid
Guest
Having said the above, it’s very possible that the pranksters will tattle on themselves, by yielding to the temptation to gossip to their wives. Of course “everybody else” did this but he didn’t, because “Honey, I would never do that to you.”
Also having said the above, the Original Poster seems to be staying with both husband and church, and as the one actually on the spot is the one who has to decide how much she is willing to let expire quietly. Perhaps she will become the one holding her head high while the men who made explicit suggestions to a not-wife and a daughter of the Most High are the ones who feel embarrassed.
Also having said the above, the Original Poster seems to be staying with both husband and church, and as the one actually on the spot is the one who has to decide how much she is willing to let expire quietly. Perhaps she will become the one holding her head high while the men who made explicit suggestions to a not-wife and a daughter of the Most High are the ones who feel embarrassed.
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patrickdengland
Guest
Over reacting? No!!! This men’s club especially if it was linked to the church in any way should have better sense. Your husband made a drunken mistake and it was amplified by his cohorts. You are deserving of an apology. The thing is that if this was a meeting that was for a church related organization, I would send an email or write a letter telling their counsel of what transpired if they refuse to apologize. The only problem with that is you will subject yourself to more attention. If your husband does not think he did anything wrong, have a counseling session with your Pastor and let him hear it 3rd party. I am sure your husband loves you and that as any man knows we screw up big time. I am no different and pass no judgment. I regularly put my foot in my mouth. I sometimes wonder if I do not have a death wish. Good Luck and God Bless!!!
A Damaged Man
A Damaged Man
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Allegra
Guest
Why would it be beneficial to tell the pastor’s wife instead of the pastor directly? If the pastor only heard it from his wife, then it would be hearsay. If I were dealing with this situation, I would want to hear from the people involved directly, to make certain I got the facts straight. Besides that, it’s highly unlikely the pastor has a wife anyway as the vast majority of American Catholic priests are celibate.
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SuperLuigi
Guest
Well, that is interesting. But some may ask “why would she go to all this trouble to tell me?”
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SuperLuigi
Guest
FYI folks: I have received complaints from other users seeking advice on the Family Life Forum, which is why
- I’d never come on here for any advice
- I handle situations on here through PM.
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truetofaith
Guest
Priests don’t have wives…so tell the husband to cut the drinking with the boys…and cut the stupid, childish filthy pranks!
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