I am in love with an agnostic

[Catholicanswers.22]

I’m asking for prayer warriors (and advice) here. I have been dating my boyfriend for about a year. I am a devout Catholic. He was technically confirmed Catholic but now claims to be agnostic. I am very much in love with him. He is kind, communicative, understanding, and much more. While I admit it is not ideal & will have many challenges, I truly think he makes me a better person. In fact, the questions he (respectfully) challenges about Catholicism actually have helped me to explain why I believe what I believe. I also try my best to live out the Gospel by example when around him. We have had several serious conversations about marriage. We have agreed that if we have kids, we will raise them Catholic. Although he says he cannot promise to become religious himself, he will always respect & support my beliefs. He thinks religion serves a lot of good & would support our children making it a large part of their life. However, there is one recent challenge that has come up: NFP. He acknowledges that it is effective but does not see a reasonable argument why it is different from condoms. (He does see why the Church is opposed to the pill as it can act as an abortifacient.) I have tried to explain to him that contraception separates the procreative & unitive act. He even agrees that chastity is something to be valued & that he would not mind practicing periods of abstinence. Still, he insists that he would not feel comfortable practicing NFP because he sees nothing wrong with barriers. He says that if we discern that we can’t afford a child or have other serious reason/responsibility to avoid parenthood that he would be more comfortable both abstaining and using contraception. I am feeling very disheartened. Any advice or way I can better explain it to him? He tends to respond well to sound research & scientific studies. Is it impossible for me to be with him if he does not change his stance on this? Lastly, please pray for him.

 

[Neithan]

I’d recommend you take a Theology of the Body course together. That’s the best way to show someone appreciation for Natural Family Planning; but without the faith to put it in context, he might not “get it” as an inspired vision of how we are designed, rather than some choice for utilitarian motives. You could show him statistics of how NFP is highly effective when done right and it reduces divorce rates. That’s not really that impressive to someone who doesn’t grasp the big picture, though.

Is it impossible for me to be with him if he does not change his stance on this?

If anyone here said, “Yes (it’s impossible)” would that change your mind? You’re in love. The heart wants what it wants. You could introduce him to your pastor (or a deacon) and bring all this up with him during an appointment for marriage discernment. I don’t think anyone (who is Catholic and orthodox) can recommend you marry someone who is going to lead you into using artificial contraception, which is a grave evil.

Prayers for you both.

 

[umamibella]

Are you engaged yet?

 

[TK421]

Lastly, please pray for him.

We will pray for him, yes, but don’t forget: pray for you

Peace.

 

[Lucy_1]

I’m married 29 years to a great guy and an agnostic.

I would not marry your boyfriend, full stop.

Since you are devout, you love God above all things. Since he is an agnostic, he doubts the existence of the person you’ve devoted your life to. No matter how wonderful a companion, this will be a gaping hole in your covenant relationship. If you take a hard look, you’re already having these issues with NFP.

CCC 1634 the difficulties of mixed marriages must not be underestimated. They arise from the fact that the separation of Christians has not yet been overcome. The spouses risk experiencing the tragedy of Christian disunity even in the heart of their own home. Disparity of cult can further aggravate these difficulties. Differences about faith and the very notion of marriage, but also different religious mentalities, can become sources of tension in marriage, especially as regards the education of children. The temptation to religious indifference can then arise.

I don’t mean to be harsh, and I know it would be utterly heart breaking, but marriage is hard work when two people are on the same page, let alone if they’re not.

 

[Lara]

Uphill battle here. NFP takes a lot of dedication from both the husband and wife. (It’s even difficult when both are on the same page.) Without total commitment to it, there will be strife. His mindset is one of limitations, what to do if we can’t afford a child. Compare that to the mindset of a Catholic woman who knows God has plans for her far beyond her own. God will always provide. Your boyfriend thinks in terms of avoiding parenthood. One day, perhaps as early as after the first child, his mindset will kick in. A Catholic trusts in the help of those around them. Yes, you may have a child with special needs; the community will help and a younger sibling can be the best advocate for him. Perhaps three younger siblings can all help.

What do you have in your favour? Time. It will take a long time for you to explain all this to him and you will need to be very patient. I would not marry him without a total conversion to his Catholic roots. His job should be to help you get into heaven. As interesting as his thought-provoking questions have been, they are not the same as actually helping you get to heaven.

Personally, I couldn’t handle the training process needed and I have a teacher personality, a strong interest in apologetics (defending the Catholic faith), and an intellectual bent. Still I couldn’t handle the work involved. Are you up for it?

 

[Pattylt]

I think many here are too quick to write this guy off! It sounds like the only roadblock you’ve hit so far is his failure to understand the Catholic position and why she has it with regards to condoms. I think that if he fully understands the catholic reasoning behind the prohibition, he might agree to go along with it. He may not agree with all of the churches reasons but he would understand your objection.

Perhaps do a deep dive into the Catholic view and then explain to him why you agree with it and see what he thinks? If he still refuses to follow your wishes then you have a tough decision. Though it sounds like he’s open to periods of abstinence so why would a condom be needed?

 

[1ke]

While I admit it is not ideal & will have many challenges,

Understatement of the year.

I truly think he makes me a better person.

That’s nice and all, but not a basis for a marriage.

fact, the questions he (respectfully) challenges about Catholicism actually have helped me to explain why I believe what I believe.

That’s nice, but you can challenge yourself to grow in your faith. “Challenges me” isn’t a unique thing that you can’t get elsewhere.

Still, he insists that he would not feel comfortable practicing NFP because he sees nothing wrong with barriers.

This is a deal breaker.

Any advice

Marry a person who shares your values and beliefs.

Is it impossible for me to be with him if he does not change his stance on this?

I don’t see how.

Marriage is hard work, you need someone pulling with you, not against you. I’m sure he’s a nice person, but again “nice person” isn’t the basis on which to marry someone. That’s a baseline criteria, you need much more than that.

 

[Lucy_1]

I think many here are too quick to write this guy off!

I mean, even if he were devout he could have a change of heart. Or he could revert. My experience colors my answer, so I may be too fast on the draw.

 

[Gab123]

Discerning a husband must also entail discerning a good father. Statistics show that most children who have fathers who do not practice the faith end up leaving their faith.
If you lived a century ago in a Catholic family, you would have had to get the blessing of your father to marry someone whom he thought would be good for your life journey. It’s one of the most important decisions you will ever make in life, becoming one with another human being in the sacrament of Matrimony.

If he doesn’t believe, what kind of union will that be? Life is hard enough as it is even with the help of the sacraments. And the honeymoon period will most certainly come to an end within a year. Marrying someone who doesn’t got to confession, does not receive the Eucharist, or even go to Church is taking a n enormous risk. People often pick up crosses in life they never had to pick up in the first place. If I were you I would pray a novena to find the right person.

Here are some brief talks by Archbishop Sheen on Marriage:

MARRIAGE:

FOUR TENSIONS IN LOVE:

MARRIAGE PROBLEMS:

SEX IS A MYSTERY:

BIRTH PREVENTION:

 

[Vico]

… He acknowledges that it is effective but does not see a reasonable argument why it is different from condoms. …

It is a physical barrier so it prevents a natural conjugal union between the spouses. There must be fluid transfer even though pregnancy may not result nor even be possible (such as from sterility).

 

[Tis_Bearself]

First of all, if he was confirmed then he is Catholic. If he’s now struggling with doubt or choosing to abandon his faith, he’s still Catholic.

Second, if he can’t see the difference between refraining from sex and using an artificial plastic barrier, then it sounds like he’s not going to agree with you on the subject of contraception. I’d break up with him. Marriage is hard enough without having to yoke yourself to a Catholic who stubbornly clings to wrong views.

 

[1ke]

If you lived a century ago in a Catholic family, you would have had to get the blessing of your father to marry someone whom he thought would be good for your life journey.

There is no such teaching in the Church and never has been.

Perhaps that was a societal norm or cultural norm, but not Church teaching.

 

[Gab123]

There is no such teaching in the Church and never has been.

Perhaps that was a societal norm or cultural norm, but not Church teaching.

That was the the norm. In fact to do otherwise was unheard of. In the Bible, arranged marriages was the rule. Even Mary was betrothed to Joseph through decisions of the family. Dowries and asking for a hand in marriage was part of law and order in the past. Not long ago, having a chaperone while going on a date was expected. The notion of casual dating is a 20th century invention, and it was Hollywood movies that taught everyone that divorce and casual sex even on a first date is okay. Now we have the scourge of broken homes, fatherless children and all the societal ills that come with that, including an epidemic of psychological problems in both children and adults, not to mention the demonic perversion of the family today.

 

[1ke]

That was the the norm. In fact to do otherwise was unheard of.

Maybe in some parts of the world, but not in the US.

In the Bible, arranged marriages was the rule.

That was (a.) over 2000 years ago, not 100 years ago as you claimed in your prior post, (b.) the Bible is referencing pre-Christian times, (c.) the Bible does not condone it or require it. Again: cultural not religious.

Even Mary was betrothed to Joseph through decisions of the family.

We know Mary was betrothed to Joseph. We do not know any circumstances. You are putting your own ideas in there.

Dowries and asking for a hand in marriage was part of law and order in the past.

Not in the US.

Not long ago, having a chaperone while going on a date was expected.

Define long ago. Because my parents, grandparents, and great grandparents did not have chaperones.

Again: CULTURAL norm, not CHURCH norm or CHURCH requirement.

The notion of casual dating is a 20th century invention, and it was Hollywood movies that taught everyone that divorce and casual sex even on a first date is okay. Now we have the scourge of broken homes, fatherless children and all the societal ills that come with that, including an epidemic of psychological problems in both children and adults, not to mention the demonic perversion of the family today.

These are opinions, not facts.

Divorce is indeed bad for families. Out of wedlock pregnancy, premarital sex, and other things are indeed sins and contribute to societal problems. However, they are not relevant to the “father’s permission to marry” requirement you asserted nor are they new sins.

 

[PennyinCanada]

A smart thing for a devout Catholic to do is to find out on the first date if the other person is a practicing Catholic or not. The reason is, as you’ve found out, that you fall in love with them and then you feel the need to pressure them to follow Catholic teachings. It’s like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

On the first date, you could have sat down with yourself and thought that he is a great guy, but he’s perfect for someone else. It’s easier on the first date than to continue on for a year and get attached.

I wish for every single young woman reading this that they set the bar high. A man who goes to mass every week, who kneels and prays, who goes up reverently to receive our Lord, who stands in line to go to confession, these are shining stars in this dark world. A man who holds a rosary in his hand in the evening is someone awesome. As well, he needs someone who will help him stay the course through difficulties. Someone who will model holiness to his children. Have a man like this in your mind and heart.

Matthew 7:24

The Wise and Foolish Builders​

24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”

 

[Anrakyr]

He was technically confirmed Catholic but now claims to be agnostic.

Does he believe in love or just the idea of it?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Please stop presenting cultural and societal norms from centuries ago as if they were Catholic teachings.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

A smart thing for a devout Catholic to do is to find out on the first date if the other person is a practicing Catholic or not.

Yes, and if they immediately begin to argue religion with you, that tells you a lot right there. I once had a guy do that very thing. Needless to say, neither one of us wanted a second date.

 

[PennyinCanada]

I wanted to add this as a side note. We had the most incredible event happen at Fatima in 1917 as Our Lady appeared to 70,000 people. She announced before hand the location, date and time so all kinds of people could be present. What did she want? She asked believers to offer their prayers and sufferings for the conversion of sinners and peace in this world.

What a century it was for human suffering. And today, the world is much darker than it was in 1917.

When Catholics start their day offering their joys and sorrows in union with Christ for the salvation of souls, we are impacting the world. The world is different because we are here. There is a battle going on right now for souls. Imagine that little boy in the scriptures who brings Jesus his few loaves and few fish and he watches while 5,000+ people are fed! If we say Yes, that can be our story too. Do you want that to be your story? When we embrace this call, it’s life changing. I wish that you find a life partner who will walk this calling with you. It’s very easy in this world to be pulled off the rails.

God bless you.