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I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes
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Reformed
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That’s going beyond the thread topic. Paul never taught Mary was without sin. Do you think Enoch and Elijah were born spirituality dead (Eph 1, and Col) and were once united to Adam (Rom 1)? Do you mind if I wait until I am done with work to read your response to Romans 1, 2, and 3. If you are right, then Protestants and Catholics can unite as one.
If you are wrong, I freely choose to follow the Apostle Paul.
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cfrancis
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As I said - yet you seem to ignore - “such is away from the discussion of Paul.”
Any comments on the first three chapters of Romans?
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Reformed
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At the end of this thread with 1,000 post, you will have a way out by stating sola scriptura is not sufficient.From what I’ve seen of your posts recently, it sounds like you had some misconceptions about what the Catholic Church was teaching you. I’m glad you’re here to get those misunderstanding cleared up.
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cfrancis
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Unless you are going to agree that Paul speaks very clearly about works of the Law v. faith in Christ and not good works v. faith in Christ, I don’t think we’ll agree!Do you mind if I wait until I am done with work to read your response to Romans 1, 2, and 3. If you are right, then Protestants and Catholics can unite as one.
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cfrancis
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And at the end of this thread, you’ll still not have produced Paul (or any author of Scripture) stating the Bible is all one needs
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Pixie_Dust
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Thanks for the offer, but that would be off-topic.
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bpbasilphx
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embertx3
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I haven’t read the whole post so far; but are you saying that the Protestant Reformers just took the OP verse of Paul and ran with it? I’m sure you will correct me if I am. Back to the thread and will continue to read.I’m not going to make it that easy for you. With the exception of the Book of Romans, the other Pauline Epistles are quite short. Do you at least agree that the Protestant Reformers broke from the Roman Church since they believed in another gospel grounded in Scripture alone? Does that imply that the Roman Catholic gospel is dependent on Sacred Tradition to support the gospel proclaimed by Rome? Here is the apparent contrasting theme:
The Roman Catholic gospel is dispensed by the Roman Catholic Church through the many Roman Catholic sacraments. This sacramental way of salvation is different than Paul’s gospel.
I think you will find Paul does not support salvation through the Catholic Sacraments. Maybe I’m wrong, but that’s why we are on this thread.
God bless
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ryanoneil
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In light of what Paul’s words mean, that was my only point.
I’ve never heard of Enoch and Eliah being without sin.Are you saying Enoch, Eliah and Mary had not need of Jesus Christ since they were without sin?
They definately needed Jesus. If one believes Christ’s sacrifice was once for all, God can apply that grace when, how, and to whom he wills.
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Reformed
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Church Councils are beyond the writings of Paul. I don’t think the Council of Trent is from God. Do you see what I mean?
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Kscrawler
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If you believe that the Catholic church teaches that you can earn your way to heaven that’s incorrect. The church does not teach that.
If you believe that the Catholic Church teaches that sacraments without faith can get you to heaven the church doesn’t teach that.
If you believe that the Catholic Church and Paul are in disagreement then you’d be wrong and if you show us what you are talking about we’ll be glad to explain it to you.
On the other hand if you believe that you can have faith and still commit mortal sins and be saved, then we do have a disagreement.
If you believe that you can claim faith in Christ and that it’s impossible to lose salvation once you make that clain then we do have a disagreement.
But to this point I have no idea what your point is. Nor do I understand what if anything we are disagreeing about.
If you believe that the Catholic Church teaches that sacraments without faith can get you to heaven the church doesn’t teach that.
If you believe that the Catholic Church and Paul are in disagreement then you’d be wrong and if you show us what you are talking about we’ll be glad to explain it to you.
On the other hand if you believe that you can have faith and still commit mortal sins and be saved, then we do have a disagreement.
If you believe that you can claim faith in Christ and that it’s impossible to lose salvation once you make that clain then we do have a disagreement.
But to this point I have no idea what your point is. Nor do I understand what if anything we are disagreeing about.
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Reformed
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Let’s do this in light of this thread. With all of your presuppositions stated above, do you mind suporting it with the writings of Paul. I think you are just responding with what you have been taught with Scripture and Tradition.
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Kscrawler
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Tell me what you think we are disagreeing about and I’ll be glad to respond. I’m bored discussing a straw man that you keep hidden in the shadows.
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Reformed
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I really like your answers! Do you believe that there is only one people of God instead of two? Some people believe the physical jews can be saved without Jesus Christ. Do you believe in remnant theology?In light of what Paul’s words mean, that was my only point.
I’ve never heard of Enoch and Eliah being without sin.
They definately needed Jesus. If one believes Christ’s sacrifice was once for all, God can apply that grace when, how, and to whom he wills.
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M0nkey
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Brother Reformed,
What does this mean to YOU? In other words, what have you done for the Gospel TODAY?
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elvisman
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That’s because the one thing most Protestants like you cannot seem to grasp is that an acorn doesn’t remain an acorn. It grows into an oak.
Jesus knew this and that’s why he told the Apostles that the Father was going to take what was the Son’s and declare it to them. In the same discourse, he told them that the Holy Spirit would guide them into all truth.
That’s also why he gave them the power to bind and loose.
Tell me - does the Anglican church of today look much like the early church St. Paul spoke of?
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