I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes

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I have read the entirety of this thread and all I can say is that “Reformed” has led a merry chase. All the the posters that have responded to his silliness are comended for the valiant defense and undisputed victory in this thread. The Catholic reverence and love for the whole entirety of Scipture has shone forth as a brilliant light in your posts, thank you!

The unwillingness of “Reformed” :eek: to acknowledge the answers of his questions, even within his limited arena, shows that he is really** not** interested in the answers you have so generously given.
 
Reformed said:
I agree in my paraphrase… that the deck is stacked against you when we use the Pauline letters as being authorative over Roman Catholic doctrine. That is why the Protestant Reformers broke from the Catholic Church.
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Again, for over 26 pages, we have presented Paul’s own words to reveal their harmony with Catholic teaching. You have yet to both support your own position with Paul’s words AND refute ours with Paul’s words!
Which leads the objective reader to conclude your position is a paper tiger.
 
cfrancis said:
Very un-Christian of you. I asked a question first, and you refuse to answer it.
Here is your chance to redeem yourself, as I trust in your Christian spirit to reciprocate by answering my question after I answer yours:
Yes, any time we choose our will over God’s, it is a sin. Not evey sin cuts us off from God (1 Jn 5:16-17), but we can sin and be cut off from God.

There. Now, your turn to exercise Christian charity.
You asked:
I simply want a clarification:
You are asking, once we’ve been grafted to the main root (Jesus Christ), how can we be cut off?
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Please explain your understanding of grafted in. We need to talk about the writings of John on another thread. I listened to a Catholic Station last Thursday in Oregon 88.3 FM which Catholic Fourm airs their program too. A Catholic Priest with tons of seminary degrees taught on the CC. He said that there are Catholics who have not been converted attending classes, yet they have been baptized. So, when is a Catholic ingrafted into Christ… at his Catholic baptism or his conversion? We both have loaded questions, right?
 
cfrancis said:
Again, for over 26 pages, we have presented Paul’s own words to reveal their harmony with Catholic teaching. You have yet to both support your own position with Paul’s words AND refute ours with Paul’s words!
Which leads the objective reader to conclude your position is a paper tiger.
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Let’s do this. I’ll take a break and let the other Bible Christians take over for awhile.
 
Reformed said:
Please explain your understanding of grafted in. We need to talk about the writings of John on another thread. I listened to a Catholic Station last Thursday in Oregon 88.3 FM which Catholic Fourm airs their program too. A Catholic Priest with tons of seminary degrees taught on the CC. He said that there are Catholics who have not been converted attending classes, yet they have been baptized. So, when is a Catholic ingrafted into Christ… at his Catholic baptism or his conversion? We both have loaded questions, right?
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I’m not speaking of John - please stay within your guidelines.

Now, answer my question as I have answered yours:
When you ask:
Therefore, how can your disobedience once united to Christ condemn you since God has already credited the perfect righteousness of Christ to our account upon our conversion and permanent adoption?
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Are you asking once we’ve been grafted to the main root (Jesus Christ), how can we be cut off?
 
cfrancis said:
Your lack of charity shines through.
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Sure my friend, I am a sinner in process just like you. If you want a detailed explanation in what I believe is the gospel of God’s grace which glorifies God and rescues sinners from their condemnation…please visit the website on my signature.
 
You are correct that St Paul often used the word ‘gospel’-Catholics believe that the gospel is the Divine revelation of the life, the teachings of, death and resurrection of Jesus.

St. Paul had a most difficult task in preaching this gospel to pagans-hence why he needed to elaborate, admonish and correct those churches who went a bit astray.

Jesus did ask us to love God with all our mind, body and soul, with all our strength and to love our neighbors as ourselves.
He also said that whatever we do to others we do to Him.

No, I do not do this 24/7 I am a great sinner-but it is in my humility to recognize this and to constantly beg Jesus for His mercy as I struggle to perfect my devotion to Him.

God is love-what purpose does this thread have anymore?
 
Reformed said:
Sure my friend, I am a sinner in process just like you. If you want a detailed explanation in what I believe is the gospel of God’s grace which glorifies God and rescues sinners from their condemnation…please visit the website on my signature.
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No, I want you to answer my question as I answered yours - it’s called charity:

Are you asking once we’ve been grafted to the main root (Jesus Christ), how can we be cut off?
 
cfrancis said:
Good on you, Pixie, for going back and pointing out your replies - I haven’t the strength!!!
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Felt kind of weird doing a search for my own posts. :o Usually I’m looking for something brilliant that someone else said! I suppose in this case I was, too, because I was looking for my posts that quote St Paul’s epistles, I’m sure he’s much smarter than I, he just doesn’t have a CAF account. 😉

Now that’s something to ponder…what would St Paul say if he DID post on CAF? :hmmm:
 
Pixie_Dust said:
Felt kind of weird doing a search for my own posts. :o Usually I’m looking for something brilliant that someone else said! I suppose in this case I was, too, because I was looking for my posts that quote St Paul’s epistles, I’m sure he’s much smarter than I, he just doesn’t have a CAF account. 😉

Now that’s something to ponder…what would St Paul say if he DID post on CAF? :hmmm:
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You sell yourself short, Pixie, You’ve done a brilliant job presenting Catholic teaching in Paul’s writings 👍
 
cfrancis said:
You sell yourself short, Pixie, You’ve done a brilliant job presenting Catholic teaching in Paul’s writings 👍
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Aw, shucks. 😊 Comes with the convert territory, I think. When you’re a die-hard anti-Catholic and suddenly you are smacked in the face with the Truth of Catholicism, and realize the Catholicism you were so dead-set against wasn’t even close to the real thing, it’s quite humbling.

Still, I had to understand they whys and wherefores of all of it before I would darken the door of a Church. Somehow in all my reading and studying I missed that “don’t seek to understand to believe…believe that you may understand” business (St Augustine paraphrase). I studied myself right into the Catholic Church. 👍
 
I Love Converts And Reverts!!!

I guess Reformed has decided not to exercise charity and answer my question…sigh…
 
Reformed said:
So the law is all God commads us to do.
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No. We are no longer under the Old Testament laws, but we must still uphold the Old Testament principles. This is because, with the death and resurrection of Christ, we are no longer in the system of law but the system of grace, if we approach God with faith in Jesus Christ. This is why Paul can say “the doers of the law will be justified” (Rom. 2:13) and “the law is holy” (Rom. 7:12). Paul is referring to the Law of Christ, not the letter of the law.

Jesus perfected the law in His New Covenant of grace, which is not concerned with the legal stipulations, but with the heart of man. This was God’s original purpose in giving the Jews the law - to move them to love God and their neighbor as themselves. But like Paul so often writes about, the Jews began to boast about their relationship with God in the law because they had the law written on tablets, and the Gentiles did not. In so doing, the Jews began to view God in a legalistic sense, like a debtor who owed them for their works, rather than a Father who owed them nothing, but would love them if they were to be faithful. When we don’t approach God as our loving Father through faith in Jesus Christ, we convert our relationship with God from a covenantal to a contractual one. Thus, our works become based on law (contract), not grace (covenant).

Paul repeatedly indicts the Jews for their boasting in the law (Rom. 2:17,23; Eph. 2:8-9). Paul said that they needed to put faith in Christ, and not in themselves. If we approach God as a debtor, we will be judged under the Old Covenant laws, and we will be condemned, because under the old laws, there was no mercy, and we would have to be perfect in order to be acquitted (James 2:10). But in the New Covenant, if we approach God with faith in Jesus Christ, we are in a system of grace, and God will reward us for being faithful. We have “obtained access to this grace” through Jesus Christ (Rom. 5:1-2).
Therefore, how can your disobedience once united to Christ condemn you since God has already credited the perfect righteousness of Christ to our account upon our conversion and permanent adoption?
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:confused:
 
ryanoneil said:
No. We are no longer under the Old Testament laws, but we must still uphold the Old Testament principles. This is because, with the death and resurrection of Christ, we are no longer in the system of law but the system of grace, if we approach God with faith in Jesus Christ. This is why Paul can say “the doers of the law will be justified” (Rom. 2:13) and “the law is holy” (Rom. 7:12). Paul is referring to the Law of Christ, not the letter of the law.

Jesus perfected the law in His New Covenant of grace, which is not concerned with the legal stipulations, but with the heart of man. This was God’s original purpose in giving the Jews the law - to move them to love God and their neighbor as themselves. But like Paul so often writes about, the Jews began to boast about their relationship with God in the law because they had the law written on tablets, and the Gentiles did not. In so doing, the Jews began to view God in a legalistic sense, like a debtor who owed them for their works, rather than a Father who owed them nothing, but would love them if they were to be faithful. When we don’t approach God as our loving Father through faith in Jesus Christ, we convert our relationship with God from a covenantal to a contractual one. Thus, our works become based on law (contract), not grace (covenant).

Paul repeatedly indicts the Jews for their boasting in the law (Rom. 2:17,23; Eph. 2:8-9). Paul said that they needed to put faith in Christ, and not in themselves. If we approach God as a debtor, we will be judged under the Old Covenant laws, and we will be condemned, because under the old laws, there was no mercy, and we would have to be perfect in order to be acquitted (James 2:10). But in the New Covenant, if we approach God with faith in Jesus Christ, we are in a system of grace, and God will reward us for being faithful. We have “obtained access to this grace” through Jesus Christ (Rom. 5:1-2).

:confused:
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Okay, please share how a converted Roman Catholic can be lost if it’s not for personal sin? I know you do not believe in a forensic justification through imputation.
 
Originally Posted by Reformed
Sure my friend, I am a sinner in process just like you. If you want a detailed explanation in what I believe is the gospel of God’s grace which glorifies God and rescues sinners from their condemnation…please visit the website on my signature.
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cfrancis said:
No, I** want you to answer my question as I answered yours - it’s called charity:**
Are you asking once we’ve been grafted to the main root (Jesus Christ), how can we be cut off?
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Reformed, are you going to answer my question as I answered yours?
 
To “Reformed”

There has been no lack of “Bible Christians” on this thread (and I applaud they’re patience), except possibly yourself.

I see nothing Christ-like in your posts!!!

You are in my prayers.
 
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