I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes

[cfrancis]

I love John 15 too. Remember, I believe in an invisible and visible church too. Do you at least agree that the law of God is everyhing God commands us to do, or not to do? Do we sin and break the law of God when we do not fullfill the law of Christ, or do not love the Lord our God ALL the time? In your understanding of sin, are you cut off from Christ when you sin?

I love Jn 15 as well, but I was actually staying within your guidelines for this thread: Paul.
So, once again (and I hope you can supply a straight answer) are you asking, once we’ve been grafted to the main root (Jesus Christ), how can we be cut off?

 

[Reformed]

I love Jn 15 as well, but I was actually staying within your guidelines for this thread: Paul.
So, once again (and I hope you can supply a straight answer) are you asking, once we’ve been grafted to the main root (Jesus Christ), how can we be cut off?

This is fun. First answer me if it’s a sin when we do not obey the command of loving the Lord our God with all of our heart, soul, strenght, and mind… and to love our neighbors as ourselves…ALL THE TIME. As I see it, all regenerate Christians sin each and everyday… falling short of the glory of God. I believe God requires perfect obedience to remain united to Christ each and everyday. Who is going to rescue us from this body of death?

 

[po18guy]

Thanks for sharing but I think the basis of this thread does not include the debate for final authority. Please consider the OP. The only relevant conversion on this thread is the one of the Chief of all sinners (Saul to Paul).

So, is your church “of Paul”? Is your theology that “of Paul”? What about the rest of scripture? We must not disregard it. Even Paul condemned this thinking:

1 Corinthians 3:21-23 “So then, no more boasting about men! All things are yours, whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas[a] or the world or life or death or the present or the future—all are yours, and you are of Christ, and Christ is of God.”

1 Corinthians 1:11-13 “My brothers, some from Chloe’s household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. What I mean is this: One of you says, ‘I follow Paul’; another, ‘I follow Apollos’; another, ‘I follow Cephas’; still another, ‘I follow Christ.’ Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized into the name of Paul?”

We are in the year dedicated to Saint Paul. We believe every word he said and wrote. I can’t understand why you would think as you do. Please: Would you be so kind as to encapsulate your opinion of the Catholic Church? It is apparent that you misunderstand her. Then, we may make some progress.

 

[po18guy]

Who is going to rescue us from this body of death?

Who, indeed? It is the presbyters of the Church who, through the authority of Christ, rescue us. Christ did give them authority over sin, correct? Not the ability to read minds, but authority over confessed sin. I have heard the words of absolution, just as Christ taught in the bible. Have you?

 

[Reformed]

So, is your church “of Paul”? Is your theology that “of Paul”? What about the rest of scripture? We must not disregard it. Even Paul condemned this thinking:

1 Corinthians 3:21-23 “So then, no more boasting about men! All things are yours, whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas[a] or the world or life or death or the present or the future—all are yours, and you are of Christ, and Christ is of God.”

1 Corinthians 1:11-13 “My brothers, some from Chloe’s household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. What I mean is this: One of you says, ‘I follow Paul’; another, ‘I follow Apollos’; another, ‘I follow Cephas’; still another, ‘I follow Christ.’ Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized into the name of Paul?”

We are in the year dedicated to Saint Paul. We believe every word he said and wrote. I can’t understand why you would think as you do. Please: Would you be so kind as to encapsulate your opinion of the Catholic Church? It is apparent that you misunderstand her. Then, we may make some progress.

That’s a vaild point. This is just a thread to help us grow in Christ. You have the apparent Free Will to participate according to the OP, or you have the freedom to start a new thread. Do you feel this thread is stacked against the Roman Catholic Faith?

 

[Reformed]

Who, indeed? It is the presbyters of the Church who, through the authority of Christ, rescue us. Christ did give them authority over sin, correct? Not the ability to read minds, but authority over confessed sin. I have heard the words of absolution, just as Christ taught in the bible. Have you?

Well, you gave me the Catholic Anwer. Now let’s see how the Apostle Paul answers that exact same question.

The Law and Sin
7 What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me all kinds of covetousness. For apart from the law, sin lies dead. 9 I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died. 10 The very commandment that promised life proved to be death to me. 11 For sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. 12 So the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.

13 Did that which is good, then, bring death to me? By no means! It was sin, producing death in me through what is good, in order that sin might be shown to be sin, and through the commandment might become sinful beyond measure. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin. 15 For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. 16 Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law, that it is good. 17 So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.

21 So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. 22 For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, 23 but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin. - rom 7

Now do you see the purpose of this thread?

 

[po18guy]

I love John 15 too. Do we sin and break the law of God when we do not fullfill the law of Christ, or do not love the Lord our God ALL the time? In your understanding of sin, are you cut off from Christ when you sin?

Separated, yes. But, Christ forgives through the successors of His Apostles. That is why we have a Sacrament called “Reconciliation”. Catholics have it because Christ taught it.

 

[Reformed]

Separated, yes. But, Christ forgives through the successors of His Apostles. That is why we have a Sacrament called “Reconciliation”. Catholics have it because Christ taught it.

You can give me all of the official Roman Catholic teachings. But can your support your Roman Catholic Faith with the writings of the Apostle Paul? Did you know Paul wrote over half of the New Testament? Do you know all that Paul wrote in the Holy Scriptures? Please stick around!

 

[cfrancis]

This is fun. **First answer me **if it’s a sin when we do not obey the command of loving the Lord our God with all of our heart, soul, strenght, and mind… and to love our neighbors as ourselves…ALL THE TIME. As I see it, all regenerate Christians sin each and everyday… falling short of the glory of God. I believe God requires perfect obedience to remain united to Christ each and everyday. Who is going to rescue us from this body of death?

In post 377, I asked you this question:

You are asking, once we’ve been grafted to the main root (Jesus Christ), how can we be cut off?

Please, answer it.

 

[cfrancis]

You can give me all of the official Roman Catholic teachings. But can your support your Roman Catholic Faith with the writings of the Apostle Paul? Did you know Paul wrote over half of the New Testament? Do you know all that Paul wrote in the Holy Scriptures? Please stick around!

We’ve done that now for 26 pages of this thread - you have yet to read them.

 

[po18guy]

Well, you gave me the Catholic Anwer. Now let’s see how the Apostle Paul answers that exact same question.

Well, Catholics are “Christian”. You sound “Paulian”. You need to assimilate Paul into the whole fabric of the Gospel. It is not the Gospel of Paul. It is Christ’s Gospel. You have separated him out. Whom do you serve?

And, I might add that your replies have taken on an ominous, “living beneath the bridge” tone. Your posts have morphed from inquiry to challenge, if not condemnation. What you encounter here is not arrogance. It is confidence. The confidence of being closer to Christ than any other Church.

 

[po18guy]

We’ve done that now for 26 pages of this thread - you have yet to read them.

Yep. This thread has begun to smell.

 

[Pixie_Dust]

Well, you gave me the Catholic Anwer. Now let’s see how the Apostle Paul answers that exact same question.

The Law and Sin
7 What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me all kinds of covetousness. For apart from the law, sin lies dead. 9 I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died. 10 The very commandment that promised life proved to be death to me. 11 For sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. 12 So the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.

13 Did that which is good, then, bring death to me? By no means! It was sin, producing death in me through what is good, in order that sin might be shown to be sin, and through the commandment might become sinful beyond measure. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin. 15 For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. 16 Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law, that it is good. 17 So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.

21 So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. 22 For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, 23 but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin. - rom 7

Amen! Catholics totally agree that it is through Jesus Christ that we have deliverance from sin. We have a wonderful way of knowing that we’ve been forgiven, called “Reconciliation.” Paul speaks of it in 2 Corinthians 2:10 - (KJV) “…if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ;”. This is what Jesus gave His Authority to His Apostles to do, forgive or retain sins in His Name and by His Authority - but that’s in the Gospels and you don’t seem to give a rip about what Jesus had to say, for whatever reason.

Now do you see the purpose of this thread?

To show us how little you actually know about the Catholic faith?

 

[po18guy]

You can give me all of the official Roman Catholic teachings. But can your support your Roman Catholic Faith with the writings of the Apostle Paul? Did you know Paul wrote over half of the New Testament? Do you know all that Paul wrote in the Holy Scriptures? Please stick around!

Paul wrote epistles, not Gospels. You think more highly of him than he did. Please answer Paul’s admonishment against undue admiration of him in 1 Corinthians. I will remain no longer until you do.

May the peace of Christ, and the illumination of the Holy Spirit be yours.

 

[Reformed]

In post 377, I asked you this question:

Please, answer it.

Not until you answer my question about the clear command to love the Lord our God with all of our hearts, soul, strenght, and mind and to love our neighbors as ourselves, and to bear each others burdens thus fufilling the law of Christ. When we don’t do all of the above ALL THE TIME, are we in sin? If so, are we cut off from Christ?

 

[Reformed]

Yep. This thread has begun to smell.

I agree in my paraphrase… that the deck is stacked against you when we use the Pauline letters as being authorative over Roman Catholic doctrine. That is why the Protestant Reformers broke from the Catholic Church.

 

[Reformed]

Paul wrote epistles, not Gospels. You think more highly of him than he did. Please answer Paul’s admonishment against undue admiration of him in 1 Corinthians. I will remain no longer until you do.

May the peace of Christ, and the illumination of the Holy Spirit be yours.

Your comment is very common with Roman Catholics, thus the reason for this thread. Paul uses the word 'gospel" more than any other writer in the entire Bible. Check it out:

gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=gospel&src=esv.org

 

[cfrancis]

Not until you answer my question about the clear command to love the Lord our God with all of our hearts, soul, strenght, and mind and to love our neighbors as ourselves, and to bear each others burdens thus fufilling the law of Christ. When we don’t do all of the above ALL THE TIME, are we in sin? If so, are we cut off from Christ?

Very un-Christian of you. I asked a question first, and you refuse to answer it.
Here is your chance to redeem yourself, as I trust in your Christian spirit to reciprocate by answering my question after I answer yours:
Yes, any time we choose our will over God’s, it is a sin. Not evey sin cuts us off from God (1 Jn 5:16-17), but we can sin and be cut off from God.

There. Now, your turn to exercise Christian charity.
You asked:

Therefore, how can your disobedience once united to Christ condemn you since God has already credited the perfect righteousness of Christ to our account upon our conversion and permanent adoption?

I simply want a clarification:
You are asking, once we’ve been grafted to the main root (Jesus Christ), how can we be cut off?

 

[Reformed]

Quote:
Now do you see the purpose of this thread?

To show us how little you actually know about the Catholic faith?

LOL… don’t you think the Pauline Epistles is different than the Roman Catholic Faith? You guys need to pray for me.

 

[Shannon9791]

I agree in my paraphrase… that the deck is stacked against you when we use the Pauline letters as being authorative over Roman Catholic doctrine. That is why the Protestant Reformers broke from the Catholic Church.

I’ve read all the posts in this forum, and I can’t say that I’ve seen you answer any questions although you continually press those you’re debating with to answer your questions. Debate is a give and take. I think you should answer some of the posts negating your arguments before you start demanding others answering your questions.