I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes

[jimmy]

LOL… I read about the apparent immorality of Pope Leo X…the one who called Luther a wild boar. It appears Pope Leo X was a homosexual. Quite ironic, considering that particular vicar was in power during the Protestant Reformation.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Leo_X

I’m sure there is a mix of moral and immoral Popes, Bishops, and other Roman Catholic clergy in the Vatican. I wonder what percentage of the residence in the Vatican are true to their celebate sexual vows?

You better be careful with making accusations that have no foundation in reality. Gossipers will not inherit the kingdom let alone slanderers. Whether Leo X was a sinner is irrelevant. I could point to the problems in your protestant ministers as well but it will do nothing.

According to the Apostle Peter, there is no distinction between laity and clergy in the kingdom of God. If you have been born from above, you are a Saint, set apart for God’s glory and will, and are part of the royal priesthood. Look to Christ and not mere men.

1 Peter 2:9

But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.

Did you say earlier that you were once a Catholic? Because by this statement it is apparent that you know absolutely nothing about Catholic doctrine.

You have abandoned the true Church and now you try to cast stones at Christ’s bride.

also think the United States have left their biblical roots as a society. We are becoming a country of secularism and relativisim… even though many people profess Christ… but not necessarily the Christ revealed in Scripture alone See what happens when we leave sola scriptura for secular Christian humanism. If you leave Scripture as the final authority and revelation from God, anything is possible.

Secular humanism is the result of protestantism. It is the atheism that is ingrained in protestantism’s foundation that resulted in secular humanism. If you want to blame Europe and South America on Catholics you are going to have to take responsibility for the US since you said it was founded by Calvinists. The one country that they have any real presence in they have screwed up.

 

[jimmy]

As a reminder my friend, it is against Forum rules to speak about political canidates. Was Augustine a determinst too? So, why are you able to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and most do not?

What are you talking about political candidates? Read Augustine’s treatise on free will and you will see how much of a determinist he is.

 

[Reformed]

I don’t want to fight with every Roman Catholic here. There is a difference with wrestling with the Scriptures as final authority as compared to wrestling with the Scriptures with the lenses of Sacred Tradition and the Magestrium. You’re wrestling is quite filtered, don’t you agree? I have found most Roman Catholics trying to reconcile Scripture passages with their Roman Catholic lenses (Catholic understanding). I can have the exact same discussion and debate with LDS Christians. What we personal receieve as final authority from God determines how we see things.

 

[Reformed]

What are you talking about political candidates? Read Augustine’s treatise on free will and you will see how much of a determinist he is.

Your post 320 should receive an infraction of 5 points. I said something much more netural and got a 5 point infraction. Let’s see how fair the moderators are with Catholics and Protestants alike.

 

[jimmy]

I don’t want to fight with every Roman Catholic here. There is a difference with wrestling with the Scriptures as final authority as compared to wrestling with the Scriptures with the lenses of Sacred Tradition and the Magestrium. You’re wrestling is quite filtered, don’t you agree? I have found most Roman Catholics trying to reconcile Scirpture passages with their Roman Catholic understanding. I can do the exact same thing with LDS Christians. What receieve as final authority from God determines how we see things.

And your’s is filtered by the traditions of John Calvin. You have followed a lie and you seem to think you are objective. You have accepted the apostacy of Calvin without even thinking.

Yes, we accept tradition because it is the Church which Christ established, not the bible. We read the bible because it is a vehicle of the revelation of Christ but the fact is that it was meant to be read as a part of the community. You have abandoned the community and now you expect others to follow you.

 

[Reformed]

You better be careful with making accusations that have no foundation in reality. Gossipers will not inherit the kingdom let alone slanderers. Whether Leo X was a sinner is irrelevant. I could point to the problems in your protestant ministers as well but it will do nothing.

Did you say earlier that you were once a Catholic? Because by this statement it is apparent that you know absolutely nothing about Catholic doctrine.

You have abandoned the true Church and now you try to cast stones at Christ’s bride.

Secular humanism is the result of protestantism. It is the atheism that is ingrained in protestantism’s foundation that resulted in secular humanism. If you want to blame Europe and South America on Catholics you are going to have to take responsibility for the US since you said it was founded by Calvinists. The one country that they have any real presence in they have screwed up.

You are quite the hostile type. For the record, I was never a Roman Catholic. I always wished that I had been born and raised Roman Catholic, so the Council of Trent would apply to me. My post about Pope Leo X being an apparent homosexual has a source reference that is quite neutral. My comment about Pope Leo’s apparent sin was driven by your claim that the Vatican is the most moral country on this planet.

 

[jimmy]

You are quite the hostile type. For the record, I was never a Roman Catholic. I always wished that I had been born and raised Roman Catholic, so the Council of Trent would apply to me.

You come here and you make accusations that are false yet you point to me and say I am ‘quite the hostile type’? You try to slander the bishops and pope and then you expect us to react kindly? You sound like the type that likes to try to work people up so that you can point fingers.

You are the typical sola scripturist who really doesn’t know scripture but likes to cut and past scriptures from search engines to support your ideology. You do nothing but pit scripture against itself as Caelestius did.

 

[reteeks21]

The atheism in America which supports abortion and even infanticide in the case of Barack Obama is the result of protestantism. Whether Europe is destitute of all morals is irrelevant because so is the US. The US was big into slavery. Was that a good thing? Maybe you can find some good Christians in America, but the same can be found in Europe and every Catholic country. And to put the cherry on top the country with the greatest moral code is Vatican city, which is its own country.

I guess that means you aren’t counting the priests who represent the Vatican that engaged in some very immoral acts. And blaming us for evil in America is ok. I guess that means it would ok to blame catholics for the beginning of hostilities in the Middle East due to the Crusades, right?

By the way, we don’t. Folks like yourself perpetuate the problems between us with posts like this.

 

[jimmy]

My comment about Pope Leo’s apparent sin was driven by your claim that the Vatican is the most moral country on this planet.

If you want to point at the sins of a 16th century pope(almost 500 years ago) then I can certainly find protestant leaders far more recent than that that are scandalous. How about the fact that the US, the country you claim for calvinism was probably the biggest country in the slave trade? You ignore your own sins but point fingers.

 

[Reformed]

And your’s is filtered by the traditions of John Calvin. You have followed a lie and you seem to think you are objective. You have accepted the apostacy of Calvin without even thinking.

Yes, we accept tradition because it is the Church which Christ established, not the bible. We read the bible because it is a vehicle of the revelation of Christ but the fact is that it was meant to be read as a part of the community. You have abandoned the community and now you expect others to follow you.

Your agressive and apparent un-christ like attitude of communications only leads to this:

http://www.lovesanimals.com/images/animals/monkey/funny_monkey.jpg

I hate to think your 6,748 post was all done in vain due to your aggressive communication style. Here is passage reminder for all. I do apologize to all when I too become too hostile and un-Christ like. Thanks be to God that He sent Christ into the world to save wretched sinners like me and you in-spite of our many sins as Christians.

1 Peter 3:15

but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect,

 

[tGette]

Gentlemen (and/or Ladies)…Please pray for charity!

Let’s keep our discussions as charitably civil as possible!

Thank you!

 

[jimmy]

I guess that means you aren’t counting the priests who represent the Vatican that engaged in some very immoral acts. And blaming us for evil in America is ok. I guess that means it would ok to blame catholics for the beginning of hostilities in the Middle East due to the Crusades, right?

By the way, we don’t. Folks like yourself perpetuate the problems between us with posts like this.

Since when do the priests of the US represent the Vatican? They don’t, they represent themselves and if anything the bishops of the US. The same acts were perpetrated by protestant ministers so get a life and get over your superiority complex.

Actually the middle east was a vast majority muslim at the time of the crusades so your arguement doesn’t make sense.

You are the one that told me to look at the countries around the world and look at the results infering that it was due to Catholicism. And then you claimed that the US was founded by Calvinists. If you want to blaim the Catholic Church for the problems of South America and Europe you must take the responsibility of the problems of the US. But you will probably push the blaim on someone else.

You have made accusations against the morality of the pope and the bishops with no support in reality. It is simply slander yet you continue to try to defend yourself.

 

[Reformed]

Gentlemen (and/or Ladies)…Please pray for charity!

Let’s keep our discussions as charitably civil as possible!

Thank you!

Great exhortation to all who profess Jesus as Lord. Please pray specifically for me too in this area. Apologetics done in the flesh will result in sin.

 

[po18guy]

I really don’t expect many Roman Catholics to freely post on this thread. This is a great opportunity for all of us. If I am wrong, please enlighten me by quoting the Apostle Paul. BTw… don’t expect prayers to the Apostle Paul will change what has been written.

Why the stereotype? Since you are Protestant, we sometimes are wary of trick questions and repeated attacks on the faith. This is the year of Saint Paul in the Catholic Church. Your question seems so simple. Why do you ask in the first place, unless you are asserting that the Cathoic faith is false…???

Know also that the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth. The Church, not the bible. The Church is greater than the bible, since the bible is a product of the Church. The Church is Christ’s visible Body on earth. Since a bible is not alive, and can do no good, the Church is greater. Scripture is a part of the Church, but not all. This seems an insurmountable hurdle for non-Catholics, who adhere to sola scriptura.

Christ’s peace.

 

[jimmy]

I must bow out because this thread is good for nothing but to get me angry and to lose all charity.

 

[reteeks21]

Since when do the priests of the US represent the Vatican? They don’t, they represent themselves and if anything the bishops of the US. The same acts were perpetrated by protestant ministers so get a life and get over your superiority complex.

Actually the middle east was a vast majority muslim at the time of the crusades so your arguement doesn’t make sense.

You are the one that told me to look at the countries around the world and look at the results infering that it was due to Catholicism. And then you claimed that the US was founded by Calvinists. If you want to blaim the Catholic Church for the problems of South America and Europe you must take the responsibility of the problems of the US. But you will probably push the blaim on someone else.

You have made accusations against the morality of the pope and the bishops with no support in reality. It is simply slander yet you continue to try to defend yourself.

Uh, the only thing I said was the priest and Vatican part. I will get a life when you learn to read.

If you claim that Protestants have ruined America it lumps us all together. I just figured it was only appropriate to lump all catholics together as well. By the way, I thought priests ultimately represented Christ?

I know America hasn’t been perfect, but you have not one iota of proof that protestantism is responsible for abortion. That is an ignorant statement. If you want protestants to accept responsibility, you do the same. Has the cc ever done anything wrong?

 

[jimmy]

Uh, the only thing I said was the priest and Vatican part. I will get a life when you learn to read.

If you claim that Protestants have ruined America it lumps us all together. I just figured it was only appropriate to lump all catholics together as well. By the way, I thought priests ultimately represented Christ?

I know America hasn’t been perfect, but you have not one iota of proof that protestantism is responsible for abortion. That is an ignorant statement. If you want protestants to accept responsibility, you do the same. Has the cc ever done anything wrong?

I am sorry. I was thinking your post was by reformed and it was a continued post in the line that Catholics have done evil and Calvinists are the greatest. My statements about abortion were in the same line of arguementation. It was simply a rhetorical statement that if Catholics are to blame for the errors or problems of south america or europe then calvinists are to blame for the errors of the US, since reformed claimed that the calvinists founded the US. I don’t deny that Catholics have done wrong. That is something that we recognize but I also expect protestants(including Calvinists) to do the same. Once again I am sorry.

 

[sandusky]

jimmy:

Which is what protestantism has done.

No, the passage continues that they exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.

Catholics have exchanged the glory of God in the form an image, not protestants.

 

[Reformed]

I am sorry. I was thinking your post was by reformed and it was a continued post in the line that Catholics have done evil and Calvinists are the greatest. My statements about abortion were in the same line of arguementation. It was simply a rhetorical statement that if Catholics are to blame for the errors or problems of south america or europe then calvinists are to blame for the errors of the US, since reformed claimed that the calvinists founded the US. I don’t deny that Catholics have done wrong. That is something that we recognize but I also expect protestants(including Calvinists) to do the same. Once again I am sorry.

For the sake of Christ that we both profess, I no longer will be responding to Jimmy.

1 Peter 3:15

but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect,

 

[po18guy]

LOL… I read about the apparent immorality of Pope Leo X…the one who called Luther a wild boar. It appears Pope Leo X was a homosexual. Quite ironic, considering that particular vicar was in power during the Protestant Reformation.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Leo_X

I’m sure there is a mix of moral and immoral Popes, Bishops, and other Roman Catholic clergy in the Vatican. I wonder what percentage of the residence in the Vatican are true to their celebate sexual vows?

According to the Apostle Peter, there is no distinction between laity and clergy in the kingdom of God. If you have been born from above, you are a Saint, set apart for God’s glory and will, and are part of the royal priesthood. Look to Christ and not mere men.

1 Peter 2:9

But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.

Jim Bakker. Oral Roberts. Jimmy Swaggart, Aaron Alamo. Glass houses.

TEST: Find anything the Catholic Church has ever written or taught about the Jews that is in the same universe as Luther’s hate-filled venom.

Your very foundation is an apparent assumption that the Church that Christ founded has fallen, contrary to His own words! However, what you cannot realize, without the illumination of the Holy Spirit, is that your position is error. So, I pray for you.

The demon has divided Christianity. It is good that you are here, and I pray that you are willing to follow Christ wherever He leads you. He leads us all to unity, as He prayed before the Father. The demon leads only to division and strife.

Christ’s peace.