I am offended by something I read

[Monte_RCMS]

Can you fit this in there?

The Catholic Church assembled the New Testament around AD 400 [thank you St. Jerome, St. Ambrose and St. Augustine] and relies on Sacred Scripture, tradition and the teaching magisterium which has kept it on track for 2000 years. The central aspect of Catholic worship is the Eucharist [also described by Catholics as The Real Presence] as described by Jesus in John 6.

 

[Zatzat]

Jesus handed down his teachings to the Apostles, and these teaching are passed on to their successors who are the Bishops, which would include the Pope

Again, if I were the Protestant, I’d ask you;

’ Then why is a Bible necessary if there are Bishops and Popes to pass on the teachings?’

 

[Zatzat]

God has defined our belief through the Pope…am I wrong in thinking this way!!!

If I were the Protestant and heard this, I’d say;

’ You rely on a middle man to get to God. Our middle man is divine, Jesus. ’

 

[OraLabora]

If I were the Protestant and heard this, I’d say;

’ You rely on a middle man to get to God. Our middle man is divine, Jesus. ’

We don’t “rely” on a middleman to get to God. Like any Christian we can speak to God directly in prayer. We can also ask the saints to intercede for us but it is not a necessity. That’s where the Protestant argument is flawed: it is based on a fallacy.

And Protestants do exactly the same thing. If a Protestant is sick in hospital, he or she won’t hesitate to ask friends and family to pray for him/her. Adding more voices can’t hurt, and does not consist of “relying on a middleman”. Just as Catholics will ask friends to pray for them, so too can we ask the Saints in Heaven to pray for us. Even Anglicans believe that there are saints in heaven. They just stopped recognizing new ones after the Reformation.

This thread reminds me of the time I was in my wife’s Anglican church and the bishop was presiding. He’s sermon was on the Mt. 16 “and on this rock I shall build my Church”. He got my goat by saying “of course Catholics take this to mean literally the Church was built on Peter, but Jesus really meant that the Church was founded on Peter’s faith and not his authority”.

Of course I wanted to jump up and shout “but you omitted ‘and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.’”

But I held my tongue. I’m sure if I’d shouted that out, my wife would have whacked me up the side of my head…

 

[Newbie2]

I wouldn’t bother replying to the statement, but would ask to be taken off their mailing list.

If you get offended by that, think of how much more offended you’d be by the other more outrageous claims that some Protestants make against the Catholic Church.

Replying and discussing doctrinal differences, methinks, is an exercise in futility in this situation.

 

[wisdomseeker]

If I were the Protestant and heard this, I’d say;

’ You rely on a middle man to get to God. Our middle man is divine, Jesus. ’

And i would say to them, then, give us back the Bible, you dont need it.
and i also would say to them, stop preaching to us Catholics, you are acting as middlemen between God and us.

 

[Bluegoat]

If I were the Protestant and heard this, I’d say;

’ You rely on a middle man to get to God. Our middle man is divine, Jesus. ’

This discussion seems rather outside of the scope of the OP to me. Not to mention it really wouldn’t apply to Episcopalians anyway.

 

[KathleenGee]

I think it would be best to simply address the put down and request removal of the newsletter.

Our faith is the working of the Church. The Spirit of the Church is reflected in Pentecost when the tongues of fire of the Holy Spirit not only came upon the Apostles and Mary, but of everyone attending – who represent us all over the world.

The Spirit of the Church is the seat of Peter, the bishops, and their flock – us all drawn from the Oral Tradition of Jesus Christ to the apostles and their successors…and the laity always participating and holding on to the true faith as well…every congregation has its chaff. The condition of having chaff with the wheat will always be here, and in the end, the angels will reap and throw the chaff into the fire.

 

[gamewell45]

I recieved a newsletter from the Episcopal church I used to attend, and as I was reading through it, here is what it said

“Unlike our Roman
Catholic brothers and sisters, who depend on
papal authority for defining belief, we have always
maintained that, ‘We pray what we believe.’”

I thought about emailing them and voicing my concern

what do you all think???

Let it go; its not worth the effort. I’m sure they are not going to modify their position and as such their is nothing to be gained.

 

[choy]

Again, if I were the Protestant, I’d ask you;

’ Then why is a Bible necessary if there are Bishops and Popes to pass on the teachings?’

tell me then, why do we waste our time in school? why not buy books, read them at home, and learn from it? why can’t doctors just read a medical book and become a doctor? how about lawyers? engineers? etc.

 

[BernadetteM]

I would just ignore it and ask that they don’t contact you again. Look where the Episcopal church is today. They don’t hold to any orthodox beliefs, except a few who are trying to hold on to what the Episcopal church taught many years ago.

I am not being uncharitable to other Episcopalians, but if they are being honest they very well know that their church is falling apart and that thousands upon thousands have left and started Continuing Anglican churches who are much more orthodox.

It is really a waste of time to bother.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

 

[jlhargus]

If I read that letter, I’d ask you;

’ If you depend on God for your defining belief. Why then do you need a Pope?’

JL: I would say we do depend on God for defining belief. Here is HOW, God gave and guarantees the Church the pillar and ground of TRUTH, will be led into ALL truth. He also promised Peter SINGULARLY, in the presents of the other apostles, that PETER’S FAITH would NOT FAIL, Peter is to STRENGTHEN and FEED his brethren. Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; 30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you (all the apostles), that he may sift you (all apostles) as wheat: 32 But I have prayed for thee (Peter only), that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

In Jn21:14-17 Jesus asks Peter three times do you love me more than THESE. These are the other apostles. Peter said three times yes. Christ then said FEED my lambs FEED my sheep. Peter is to FEED all Christ’s flock.

I would then ask HOW God defines for you. If they say thru the scriptures, then I would say which of the thousands of interpretations is God’s definition? How would you know?

 

[jlhargus]

Again, if I were the Protestant, I’d ask you;

’ Then why is a Bible necessary if there are Bishops and Popes to pass on the teachings?’

JL: Simple answer, that’s what God intended and set in place. BOTH are necessary otherwise God would not have given BOTH to the Church. The Lord knew what would happen when it is sola scriptura. No authority to define doctrine leaving nothing more than a tower of babel, scattering people of faith into contentious groups, split after endless split. People of faith no longer speaking or understanding the same faith language.

 

[gamewell45]

I am not being uncharitable to other Episcopalians, but if they are being honest they very well know that their church is falling apart and that thousands upon thousands have left and started Continuing Anglican churches who are much more orthodox.

Bernadette, I would not go as far as saying TEC is “falling apart”; rather I’d say its evolving and while it may not meet everyones standards, it will no doubt continue to do well once everything settles down and those who want to leave the church do so. The church leaders are well aware of the fact that it might take years for things to settle down, but they and most parishoners accept that. While it may not be the norm compared to other Episcopal Parishes, not one person has left our Parish over the ordination of women Priests or Homosexual Bishops.

Those who have already gone over to the Anglican or Catholic church, we wish them well.

 

[BernadetteM]

Bernadette, I would not go as far as saying TEC is “falling apart”; rather I’d say its evolving and while it may not meet everyones standards, it will no doubt continue to do well once everything settles down and those who want to leave the church do so. The church leaders are well aware of the fact that it might take years for things to settle down, but they and most parishoners accept that. While it may not be the norm compared to other Episcopal Parishes, not one person has left our Parish over the ordination of women Priests or Homosexual Bishops.

Those who have already gone over to the Anglican or Catholic church, we wish them well.

Actually in another thread I stated that TEC members really don’t care that so many are leaving the Episcopal church. I will say that it is not the church of my youth. My own niece’s father-in-law was the Bishop of a very large Episcopal diocese and he didn’t believe in the Resurrection of Christ. This seems to be just one of the many truths that are no longer believed. I didn’t leave because of woman priests, but because TEC has strayed far from the Gospel.

I also said that it wasn’t TEC who was so hostile towards Anglicans who are accepting the offer of the Holy Father, but it is many groups of Continuing Anglicans who have been so uncharitable and angry towards their fellow brothers and sisters.

It is my feeling that many Catholics who want to change the Church would be much happier in the Episcopal church and wonder why they don’t just leave and join TEC. They want to follow TEC in their beliefs, but also want to force them upon the Catholic Church. I chose to leave as I was Anglo Catholic and wanted to be fully Catholic, so I guess I don’t understand Catholics who don’t want to be fully Catholic who stay.

I hold no anger towards TEC, as each individual must decide where it is best for them to grow spiritually. In the other thread I mentioned that at least TEC was up front about what they believe. Regarding the future of the Episcopal/Anglican Communion only time will tell what happens. I am aware of two TEC priests in my area who are leaving and understand there are many more. If your happy that is what counts, as for me I am very content and at peace with my decision.

God Bless

Bernadette

 

[reaganjn]

I would just ignore it and ask that they don’t contact you again. Look where the Episcopal church is today. They don’t hold to any orthodox beliefs, except a few who are trying to hold on to what the Episcopal church taught many years ago.

I am not being uncharitable to other Episcopalians, but if they are being honest they very well know that their church is falling apart and that thousands upon thousands have left and started Continuing Anglican churches who are much more orthodox.

It is really a waste of time to bother.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

you are right…im just going to ask to be removed from their mailing list. i left the episcopal church about 2 years ago because i just wasnt happy with the way the church is going. and i have always had a tug to catholic church. so i am a recent convert along with my young daughters!! my husband is not catholic but very supportive and very loving in my decision.

 

[RoryMcKenzie56]

I recieved a newsletter from the Episcopal church I used to attend, and as I was reading through it, here is what it said

“Unlike our Roman
Catholic brothers and sisters, who depend on
papal authority for defining belief, we have always
maintained that, ‘We pray what we believe.’”

I thought about emailing them and voicing my concern

what do you all think???

I think what was said is reasonable enough from the Anglican point of view. Do we have defined doctrine if we put aside papal authority? Any ecumenical council depends on papal ratification, does it not?

I just don’t see any gross misrepresentation requiring correction, and as such not worth being offended at. For what it may be worth, I would let it go.

Rory

 

[Contarini]

I recieved a newsletter from the Episcopal church I used to attend, and as I was reading through it, here is what it said

“Unlike our Roman
Catholic brothers and sisters, who depend on
papal authority for defining belief, we have always
maintained that, ‘We pray what we believe.’”

I thought about emailing them and voicing my concern

what do you all think???

What’s your concern? Anglicans do rely on the liturgy as a basis of doctrine more than members of the Roman Communion do. The statement is a bit overly simplistic, but hey–it’s a church newsletter!

This is hardly some kind of vicious slur.

And if you abandoned them to become Roman Catholic, they may not feel that you have a whole lot of standing to write and criticize what they put in their newsletter for members of the parish.

Edwin

 

[peary]

I recieved a newsletter from the Episcopal church I used to attend, and as I was reading through it, here is what it said

“Unlike our Roman
Catholic brothers and sisters, who depend on
papal authority for defining belief, we have always
maintained that, ‘We pray what we believe.’”

I thought about emailing them and voicing my concern

what do you all think???

Just shows that ignorance is the norm for this particular Church…and whoever wrote it. It’s sad, actually. But you can’t fix stupid, so I’ve concluded.

 

[Noesis]

The original letter that you received was, quite frankly, accurate in its very brief description of one of the differences between the Catholic and Protestant approaches to Christianity. It is so that Catholics rely upon the institution and hierarchy of Bishops and their authority; and it is so that Protestants do not. I’m therefore a bit confused as to what, precisely, there is in this letter that you seek to address. What, exactly, is offensive to you, Reaganjn?

Protestants who do not place value on the organisation of the Catholic Church, need not be ‘corrected’ at every opportunity. Furthermore, it will become tiresome to consistently argue and debate with people who do not agree with you. Perhaps it is more prudent to address differences when there is a context of questions that has been provided by someone who is curious.

There is a time and a place for everything, and being able to work within such a parameter, will help extensively in achieving what it is that you wish to achieve.