I am reading that the Pope has given instruction to break the seal of confession?

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Cevan6052

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I have seen these articles:


www.google.com

Pope Francis Calls on Abusive Priests to Turn Themselves In (Published 2018)

Priests who abuse children should surrender “to human justice, and prepare for divine justice,” the pontiff said in his annual address to the Roman curia.
www.google.com www.google.com

and others that report basically the same thing, regarding abuse within the church. I was hoping for clarification by those who may know more than me. If true, how does this fit into Catholic teachings? Is the law of a given land to be adhered to if it requires priests to break the seal of confession?

Perhaps because of the wording, turn yourself in, it does not break the seal? But even then, and even though the act is most heinous, does that not go against official teachings on confession?

Thank you.
 
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Can you please not link an article that requires a subscription to read it?
Cevan6052 said:
If true, how does this fit into Catholic teachings? Is the law of a given land to be adhered to if it requires priests to break the seal of confession?
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Catholics are not to obey unjust laws. Those priests must uphold the Seal of Confession, no matter if jail or death is threatened. I also don’t see how your second article shows Pope Francis calling on priests to violate the Seal.
 
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Cevan6052 said:
I have seen these articles:
New Laws Require Priests to Break the ‘Seal of Confession’ - WSJ

Pope Francis Calls on Abusive Priests to Turn Themselves In - The New York Times

and others that report basically the same thing, regarding abuse within the church. I was hoping for clarification by those who may know more than me. If true, how does this fit into Catholic teachings? Is the law of a given land to be adhered to if it requires priests to break the seal of confession?

Thank you.
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Priests are required to keep the seal no matter what the law of the land is.

A law like this in the US would be immediately struck down by the courts as it should be.
 
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What’s new from the Pope is this Motu Proprio, Vos Estis Lux Mundi, issued just two days ago:
http://w2.vatican.va/content/france...otu-proprio-20190507_vos-estis-lux-mundi.html

Here’s the CNA report summarizing it:

www.catholicnewsagency.com

Catholic Church issues norms for reports of sexual abuse of minors, seminarians, and religious

New Vatican norms for the Church’s handling of sex abuse, issued Thursday, place seminarians and religious coerced into sexual activity through the misuse of authority in the same criminal category as abuse of minors and vulnerable adults.
www.catholicnewsagency.com www.catholicnewsagency.com
 
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The bit about “Human justice.” Does that not mean civil authorities?
 
i’m not going to waste irreplaceable life energy on reading the articles. They are for-profit and benefit from hyperbole, distortions, misinformation and lies. It would appear that the Holy Father is appealing to consciences - that any priests who committed crimes have the decency to turn themselves in.
 
He’s said No Such thing. The Seal of Confession is Inviolable. Priests cannot break it.
Cevan6052 said:
Perhaps because of the wording, turn yourself in, it does not break the seal? But even then, and even though the act is most heinous, does that not go against official teachings on confession?
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A Priest can turn themselves in for crimes that they have committed. That doesn’t break the Seal of Confession.
 
Firstly, I apologize for any offense. I am actually just now returning to the Church and this is all pure confusion on my part, not any attempt to talk poorly about anyone, especially not the Pope.

And what I may have not considered, is that it may not only apply to confessions. By my understanding, that is entirely private and one can not be instructed to repeat what is said there.

However, confession is not the only way that these things may be discovered. If they were discovered outside of confession, the seal would not apply and reporting to authorities would not break it.

Is that a better understanding?
 
To be honest I may have completely misunderstood this from the very beginning.
 
I’m not offended! I’m just being direct.

A penitent can reveal whatever he or she wants outside of the Seal. Should that be done, the priest can speak about it. I’m not sure though that even if a priest said “I confessed to Fr. ____ that I molested children” that the priest could then confirm that to the police. If, however, the penitent priest told the other priest that outside of confession, he’d definitely be able to speak about it.
 
The WSJ article you linked to (as far as I can tell without a subscription) isn’t the Pope saying to break the seal but rather about the Church pushing back against civil laws requiring the seal to be broken. You have it backwards.
 
According to the provisions of the Motu proprio, someone reporting abuse cannot be subjected to “prejudice, retaliation or discrimination” because of what they report. The problem of victims who in the past have been told to keep silent is also addressed: these universal norms provide that “an obligation to keep silent may not be imposed on any person with regard to the contents of his or her report”. Obviously, the seal of confession remains absolute and inviolable and is in no way affected by this legislation.

 
Cevan6052 said:
Firstly, I apologize for any offense. I am actually just now returning to the Church and this is all pure confusion on my part, not any attempt to talk poorly about anyone, especially not the Pope.

And what I may have not considered, is that it may not only apply to confessions. By my understanding, that is entirely private and one can not be instructed to repeat what is said there.

However, confession is not the only way that these things may be discovered. If they were discovered outside of confession, the seal would not apply and reporting to authorities would not break it.

Is that a better understanding?
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Thanks for the explanation of your background in this. To help you understand any possible offence you may have, quite unintentionally, caused your post hit on two hot button issues which re-arise regularly. 1. Dispute over whether the church should permit breaking of the seal of the confessional in the case of child abuse, and 2. Is this-or-that announcement from Pope Francis “scandalous”, in some sense.

So, when you suggest Pope Francis has ordered the breaking of the seal, then you’ve touched off both simultaneously! 😃

Continuing to assist you with unravelling this:
  1. As others have said, Pope Francis has not suggested that priests should break the seal. The previous discussions we’ve had on this have often proposed that this will never happen, in any circumstances, but whether it will or won’t, it certainly hasn’t happened yet.
  2. Yes, the church has accepted “Mandatory Reporting” in other circumstances which are outside the seal. This has certainly happened in Australia, and I suspect elsewhere. In other words, if a priest is informed of child abuse in an office or other conversation he is obliged to report it. Such has been accepted by the church without demure. In fact, we had a Bishop convicted of not reporting abuse he allegedly heard of as a junior priest in the 1970’s, under a retrospective law. The conviction was reversed on appeal, however, on grounds of evidence rather than law.
 
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I could not access the articles. But it seems the Pope is telling abusers to turn themselves in. That does not in any way imply breaking the confessional seal.

In fact I doubt that any abuser has confessed his sin in the confessional. That is why I think that all attempts by the civil authorities to compel breaking the seal of confession is useless.
 
I too cannot read the articles, they are behind paywalls. However, on the subject of confession:

In confession, the person making the confession is called the “Penitent” and the priest hearing the confession is called the “Confessor”.
The “Confessor” may not reveal details of the confession, ever. He can’t even reveal that he heard the confession, ever.
The Penitent, however, can reveal anything he likes about the confession to anybody. We have a thread right on this forum where a penitent is on here discussing with the group things he said and stuff that happened in four different confessions. This is perfectly okay.

A Penitent who has committed a serious crime, such as child sexual abuse, may well be advised by his Confessor priest that the Penitent should turn himself in to law enforcement. However, the Confessor cannot require that the Penitent do this in order to get absolution, and cannot assign turning yourself in as a penance, or otherwise monitor if it’s been done. It’s a suggestion only.
The Confessor also can’t turn the Penitent in himself, as he can’t reveal that he heard the confession or talk about what he heard.

The Pope is calling on clergy sexual abusers to turn THEMSELVES in. If these clergy sexual abusers confessed their sins to another priest in confession, then turning THEMSELVES in does not break the seal, any more than the guy posting about his four confessions on this forum in a thread is breaking the seal.

Also, if a priest happens to find out about sexual abuse through some channel other than the confessional - let’s say that a victim comes to Fr. X and reports a credible allegation that Fr. Y abused him, or that Fr. Y admits to Fr. X over their lunchtime sandwiches that Fr. Y molested a teenager, or worst of all that Fr. X walks in and catches Fr. Y in the act of sexually abusing a child - then Fr. X can and should report Fr. Y to law enforcement. There is no sacrament of confession involved here, and no seal, and no issue with breaking the seal.
 
This… for 10
The seal is still very much valid according to this latest document. This document comes after the meeting in February. It has a very swift turnaround. It demonstrates the gravity of the situation that has afflicted the Church.

Please read it, to those who have not and have concerns about how the Church will be moving forward on the direction of the Magisterium
 
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JimG said:
In fact I doubt that any abuser has confessed his sin in the confessional. That is why I think that all attempts by the civil authorities to compel breaking the seal of confession is useless.
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That came out during the Aus Royal Commission. Fr Frank Brennan a high profile spokesman for the Church said that in something like 35 years as a Priest he had never had that sin confessed.
 
First, welcome back to the Church!

the seal of confession applies only to the priest who hears the confession; so it does not apply to the person confessing. and it does not matter if the person confessing is a lay person or a priest; it olny applies to the priest hearing the confesion. So, if a priest abused someone, and then confessed it, he could later report his abuse - to civil authorities or his superior. onlyl his confessor would be bound to silence.
 
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