I am the mistress to a married Catholic man, did I doom him to Hell forever?

[The_Old_Maid]

A serious question. I need to the know the truth.

A few months ago I began going for late night cocktails with a married man, and a new father, in fact.

He insists that the adultery never extends beyond kissing, caressing, viewing each other nude, basically everything but sex. He seems content with these amorous exchanges, and promises me that because he is only married through the state and not the church yet, it is really not yet adultery.

In every other sense of his life he is a Catholic man.

My question to you all relates to the validity of his statements, as I am deeply in love with him. Is it not yet adultery? Would the church care about state sanctioned marriage or can he leave his wife and child? Is there anywhere that states “everything except sex” is okay?

What is the Catholic perspective on this?

Dear Original Poster,

I’m not sure why the admission that at least one party is a professed Catholic is an issue. Maybe in a belief that the Church would be more lenient than the world? In the secular world, this situation appears on television sitcoms on a regular basis (example: Benson, “Kraus falls in love”), or on Cheaters almost daily.

Or perhaps a different example, however cringe-worthy. Once upon a time, there was a married man named Rayford. He had a not-affair with his not-girlfriend Hattie that involved not-sex plus not-leaving-his-wife. Guess who got not-Raptured. (Yes, it’s Left Behind, the book that is everywhere.) After Rayford gets Saved and ends the not-affair (which BTW it was real enough to need to be ended, and he knew it), they continue to hold on to each other through blame and pain.

The authors and some fans speak as if Hattie was the instigator: that if Rayford ever “defiled” his marriage, it would be because of her. (Echoes of your did I doom him to Hell? original question.)

Other fans, plus critics of the series, speak as if Rayford was the instigator: that sexual intercourse was not the only form of adultery available to Rayford; he chose one of the other forms and then tried to justify himself with, Oh, well, at least I didn’t sleep with her. (Echoes of his He insists that the adultery never extends beyond kissing, caressing, viewing each other nude, basically everything but sex.)

Both characters are unreliable narrators. Rayford is into control, and has been doing this for 12 years that we know of (his son is 12 and that’s what he was doing when Wife was ready to pop). Hattie is into being controlled, so much so that she is passed from one manipulative man to another, and another (Ray, Buck, Antichrist, back to Ray). Even after she dies, Rayford gets her ashes and speaks at their disposal.

Moral of the story: don’t be a Hattie! That’s just a good way to get stung by demon locusts and have your not-boyfriend hide you in a basement so the righteous don’t have to listen to your cries of agony. Because he cares!

Seriously, though …

I mention this because if you were struck by the hypothetical bus tomorrow, there’s a good chance this fellow will find a replacement for you within days. Slick salesmen like that are good at finding fresh markets.

Also, you have NO CHANCE with this man, and possibly with any other, until you figure out what’s broken in your discernment (both spiritual and secular) that you got into this sort of relationship. You’ll never be more than entertainment to him, a consolation prize at best. You definitely should cut off all contact with him. But see a therapist too, or you’ll just end up with another one like him.

Prayers and best wishes.

EDIT: I would hope that your repentance would convict his conscience so that he repents too and doesn’t replace you with a fresh partner/victim. “With God all things are possible,” but admittedly the odds aren’t good.

 

[schaubj57]

Don’t be childish, The OP is sneaking around with a married man and kissing him. The man is trying to pull the line that it isn’t adultery because they aren’t engaging in vaginal penetration. This isn’t the same as giving your Aunt Lucy a peck on the cheak and you know it.

I quoted what they said. How is that being childish?

Here’s once again what they said: "Firstly - Yes, it’s adultery. Jesus himself said adultery is committed as soon as one “looks lustfully” on another. So kissing, caressing, etc all counts and is adultery. The Catholic Church teaches this definitively."

@Allegra…LOL, boy there are either a lot of trolls on this site or a lot of stupid Catholics!
Maybe they want attention.

Sorry to have upset someone who thinks they are so much better then the rest of us.

 

[OdetteOdille]

To sum things up: He’s a creep and YOU deserve better.

With all due respect, he is not alone in this. She is just as much in the wrong. Hopefully in addition to caring about his soul OP will start to care about her own.

 

[Listener]

I can tell where this is going. This guy is going to have two women who each had a baby. After he is overwhelmed with all of the responsibility, he’ll probably just get himself a third woman.

Run, don’t walk, to the nearest exit!

 

[Allegra]

I quoted what they said. How is that being childish?

Here’s once again what they said: "Firstly - Yes, it’s adultery. Jesus himself said adultery is committed as soon as one “looks lustfully” on another. So kissing, caressing, etc all counts and is adultery. The Catholic Church teaches this definitively."

The word you are ignoring is “lustfully”. Kissing lustfully is adultery.

 

[EasterJoy]

The word you are ignoring is “lustfully”. Kissing lustfully is adultery.

The important thing in their cases is to not get into splitting hairs. This violates the Golden Rule. No one believes in the concept of adultery or sexual sin would say “it isn’t anything serious if my husband does this” or “my mother should have no problem with some woman doing this with my dad.” Only the people doing it split hairs over whether it crosses the line between venial and mortal. The innocent victims aren’t fooled by all that. They simply ask, “how could you?”

 

[Allegra]

The important thing in their cases is to not get into splitting hairs. This violates the Golden Rule. No one believes in the concept of adultery or sexual sin would say “it isn’t anything serious if my husband does this” or “my mother should have no problem with some woman doing this with my dad.” Only the people doing it split hairs over whether it crosses the line between venial and mortal. The innocent victims aren’t fooled by all that. They simply ask, “how could you?”

And those that do it never seem to remember that there are often innocent children who are victims of this as well.

 

[EasterJoy]

And those that do it never seem to remember that there are often innocent children who are victims of this as well.

In AA, they call it “stinkin’ thinkin’,” but addicts aren’t the only ones who do it. It has been the “yeah but” thinking behind sin since Adam and Eve. Often they don’t mean to harm anybody, but that intention doesn’t prevent the harm.

We should not let the OP think we think she or the man she got involved with are different than we are. In every way but this, they may be better we are. What we are saying is that our BS meter always works better on other people’s self-deception than it does on our own. It is bitter to swallow the truth that we’ve fed ourself a platter of lies, but it is the only way to swear off the buffet. No one who has been where she is will tell her anything other than “run!” Yes, it is an offense against the marriage, no, you are not going to find repentance for him by staying in the relationship, and yes, the entire relationship has to go. No ifs, ands, or buts.

 

[Eliza10]

Oh, yeah, because if this were you, you’d be sure to post under your customary name!

If she’s a troll, I’ll tell you what, she’s succeeding in sounding like some real cases I have heard from, both male and female. I mean really nailing it.

He insists that the adultery never extends beyond kissing, caressing, viewing each other nude, basically everything but sex. He seems content with these amorous exchanges, and promises me that because he is only married through the state and not the church yet, it is really not yet adultery.

That is the kind of self-delusion that you can hardly make up. In any case, you don’t have to. It is out there, in some otherwise intelligent people. (Ask Monica Lewinsky…)

EasterJoy, this would *not *be me! Please. But thank God for that.

You say it sounds real, but perhaps you have been blessed not to have any pathological liars in your life. They are not uncommon. And the stuff they come up with sounds very real and convincing!

One thing about those who make up stories - its for attention - they know how to compose their stories for the *most *attention. Their stories should “tickle” in order to engage. And for this, wordiness is not necessary. In fact, too much detail and they know they risk getting tripped up!

This scenario says “imaginary” to me. Just one “Tell” (but, I am not going to “giveaway” *all I see here): Why would any woman playing hanky-panky with a married man "and a new father, in fact" just a little shocking aside!] come here to CAF to poll about ethics of it? Maybe to sit back and see how many pages of comments he can garner * this time??

Really, he (does not sound like a “she” to me) sounds to me exactly like the same old guy who has hovered around the family Forum for years, opening new CAF accounts under a plethora of names to post another weird dilemma. He just keeps coming back.

Just saying’.

 

[schaubj57]

The word you are ignoring is “lustfully”. Kissing lustfully is adultery.

I’m not ignoring “lustfully” as that was used with looking. They said that kissing is adultery as per the teaching of the Catholic Church. I had NEVER heard that kissing was adultery (as per what they said the church teaches) and stated as such. This whole attack on me as being a troll or dumb Catholic seems to be done by those who fail to read what was stated by someone else and that I questioned it.

 

[ladystardust]

Dear Eliza10,

Hello there miss. I’d like to clarify as much,as I can over the internet, that I’m not wasting anyones time here, and I truly have the sincerest intentions.

I came to this website because I really did want a Catholic perspective. Every time I questioned him about his religion he seemed so adamant about it being the truth. Full disclosure, I am a cradle Catholic but in no way a bible literalist. HE was. The believes absolutely everything the church tells him in doctrine and dogma, so why would he so easily cheat on his wife?

And yes, he’s a new dad, something I don’t think he wanted to be… I think it’s relevant because if anything he should feel closer to his wife. I’m so confused. Part of me feels used but part of me feels like he doesn’t know what, and never will…

It’s shaped my views on marriage for the worst. I’m to blame. I’m awful…but I need to know why this cognitive dissonance? I thought maybe honestly there would be some insane Catholic loophole. (Not to condone the acts.)

Just confused…and tired…

 

[MamaJewel]

A serious question. I need to the know the truth.

A few months ago I began going for late night cocktails with a married man, and a new father, in fact.

He insists that the adultery never extends beyond kissing, caressing, viewing each other nude, basically everything but sex. He seems content with these amorous exchanges, and promises me that because he is only married through the state and not the church yet, it is really not yet adultery.

In every other sense of his life he is a Catholic man.

My question to you all relates to the validity of his statements, as I am deeply in love with him. Is it not yet adultery? Would the church care about state sanctioned marriage or can he leave his wife and child? Is there anywhere that states “everything except sex” is okay?

What is the Catholic perspective on this?

Hi ladaystardust, welcome to CAf.

I’ve read some of your thread. As far as the husband not committing adultery because he didn’t marry in the catholic church, this is not the case. If he is in a legal marriage, then it’s still pushing the limits toward adultery. Unfortunately, he has an added sin of scandal against the sacrament of marriage if he married without the church’s consent if he is a catholic.

The church does care about legal marriages, but it doesn’t have authority over legal marriages.

 

[Allegra]

I’m not ignoring “lustfully” as that was used with looking. They said that kissing is adultery as per the teaching of the Catholic Church. I had NEVER heard that kissing was adultery (as per what they said the church teaches) and stated as such. This whole attack on me as being a troll or dumb Catholic seems to be done by those who fail to read what was stated by someone else and that I questioned it.

It is you who is failing to read the comment in context, and since you are continuing to argue about it, it seems like you are doing it intentionally.

The OP states that her adulterous boyfriend told her that they weren’t committing adultery because they were only kissing, etc. THe next poster pointed out that Scripture states that even looking at a woman lustfully is adultery. The conclusion, according to Catholic teaching, is that any behavior (including kissing) that is done lustfully is adultery, not just sex.

If you genuinely didn’t get that, well, there it is. If you’re just being a troll, I really hope you don’t actually think because it’s acceptable to give non-sexual kisses to elderly ladies and babies that it follows that kissing isn’t adultery in the OP’s situation.

 

[MamaJewel]

Dear Eliza10,

Hello there miss. I’d like to clarify as much,as I can over the internet, that I’m not wasting anyones time here, and I truly have the sincerest intentions.

I came to this website because I really did want a Catholic perspective. Every time I questioned him about his religion he seemed so adamant about it being the truth. Full disclosure, I am a cradle Catholic but in no way a bible literalist. HE was. The believes absolutely everything the church tells him in doctrine and dogma, so why would he so easily cheat on his wife?

And yes, he’s a new dad, something I don’t think he wanted to be… I think it’s relevant because if anything he should feel closer to his wife. I’m so confused. Part of me feels used but part of me feels like he doesn’t know what, and never will…

It’s shaped my views on marriage for the worst. I’m to blame. I’m awful…but I need to know why this cognitive dissonance? I thought maybe honestly there would be some insane Catholic loophole. (Not to condone the acts.)

Just confused…and tired…

Why let it shape your views on marriage for the worst?

I’m a convert to the Catholic faith whose soon to be ex husband sounds very much like your boyfriend. We had our marriage convalidated when I came into the Church. I was in a long term marriage and I have several children (more than half a dozen). My ex prays the rosary daily, knows scripture, attends Mass, etc, but left me and our kids, one of whom suffers a chronic illness, for the other woman. In fact he brought her back into the church, that was the basis for their relationship.

None of the priests between the two parishes, nor the bishop seemed to really care about what was happening. I know I’ve been alone through all this. Some people want to strangle my ex, others don’t really care and think nothing of what is going on. Me, I’ve had to offer it up and let God’s grace carry me through. But at the end of the day, marriage is marriage and I’m not going to allow my bad experience to change my views of the sacrament.

Reading your posts, I get the vibe that you know this isn’t right. Ya know? Like, this man knows what he is doing, and it isn’t nice stringing his wife along. If she doesn’t do it for him and he doesn’t love her the way a husband should, (like Christ loves his Church) she really should be freed to move on with her life. She might not be a catholic who knows the truth of the Church’s teachings. She could be working her tail end off to be a good wife and mother without a snowball’s chance in Hades of having a chance of a real marriage.

It sounds like he has done a good number on both his wife and on you. I know how much it hurts when you love someone who is manipulating you. But I think you know in your heart the truth of your situation.

Peace,
Jewel

 

[EasterJoy]

Dear Eliza10,

Hello there miss. I’d like to clarify as much,as I can over the internet, that I’m not wasting anyones time here, and I truly have the sincerest intentions.

I came to this website because I really did want a Catholic perspective. Every time I questioned him about his religion he seemed so adamant about it being the truth. Full disclosure, I am a cradle Catholic but in no way a bible literalist. HE was. The believes absolutely everything the church tells him in doctrine and dogma, so why would he so easily cheat on his wife?

And yes, he’s a new dad, something I don’t think he wanted to be… I think it’s relevant because if anything he should feel closer to his wife. I’m so confused. Part of me feels used but part of me feels like he doesn’t know what, and never will…

It’s shaped my views on marriage for the worst. I’m to blame. I’m awful…but I need to know why this cognitive dissonance? I thought maybe honestly there would be some insane Catholic loophole. (Not to condone the acts.)

Just confused…and tired…

You’ve read enough of the Bible to know the story of King David. Lust is a very strong force, and a blinding force.

Let’s make this easier for you.

It does not matter if you are at fault or not at fault. God knows that, we don’t. What matters is that you see that it is wrong now and decide right now to end your cooperation with it now. You also don’t need to know why this fellow is doing what he is doing. You don’t need to understand what it will take to fix him. Because of this relationship, you know that whatever problem he has, you are not the one to fix it.

Scrap this relationship. He has a lot of mileage to put under his feet before you would ever consider having a relationship with him. You will both be far from this situation, and essentially starting all over. That is too far off to even think of. For now, accept that a good outcome is in the opposite direction from him. That is all you need to know. Keep things simple, and go with that. Break things off with him entirely, and start fresh. It will be a weight off your shoulders and a binding band released from around your chest. It will let you breathe and feel peace.

No, if you find a Catholic suitable for a relationship, he’s not going to be someone who finds loopholes to excuse what is objectively bad behavior. You won’t have to sneak around or split hairs about what ought to be OK with the real number one person in his life. You were right to see a red flag there. Listen to your gut, don’t feel guilty for “judging” his dishonesty, and move on. Find yourself friends to be with and other things to do, find something “to do” instead of just asking yourself to “not do” things, and get on with having a sane life based on integrity and relationships you can be at peace with.

 

[EasterJoy]

EasterJoy, this would *not *be me! Please. But thank God for that.

You say it sounds real, but perhaps you have been blessed not to have any pathological liars in your life. They are not uncommon. And the stuff they come up with sounds very real and convincing!

One thing about those who make up stories - its for attention - they know how to compose their stories for the *most *attention. Their stories should “tickle” in order to engage. And for this, wordiness is not necessary. In fact, too much detail and they know they risk getting tripped up!

This scenario says “imaginary” to me. Just one “Tell” (but, I am not going to “giveaway” *all I see here): Why would any woman playing hanky-panky with a married man "and a new father, in fact" just a little shocking aside!] come here to CAF to poll about ethics of it? Maybe to sit back and see how many pages of comments he can garner * this time??

Really, he (does not sound like a “she” to me) sounds to me exactly like the same old guy who has hovered around the family Forum for years, opening new CAF accounts under a plethora of names to post another weird dilemma. He just keeps coming back.

Just saying’.

You know what? If this were a troll, I wouldn’t care.

There really are people out there who are honestly in a situation like this. There really are people who self-deceive in order to live with their infidelities towards others. I’ve known some of them. Some of them may come here and read this thread, even though they didn’t start it.

I care about the people who are suffering from that kind of a relationship and from the deceptions that they are running on themselves and on others. I don’t care if I’m taken for some honest advice from a dishonest person looking to pluck my heartstrings. It doesn’t harm me. Maybe it will help someone else. If I mind my manners on the keyboard, it won’t harm anyone else, either. That is really all that matters.

 

[schaubj57]

It is you who is failing to read the comment in context, and since you are continuing to argue about it, it seems like you are doing it intentionally.

The OP states that her adulterous boyfriend told her that they weren’t committing adultery because they were only kissing, etc. THe next poster pointed out that Scripture states that even looking at a woman lustfully is adultery. The conclusion, according to Catholic teaching, is that any behavior (including kissing) that is done lustfully is adultery, not just sex.

If you genuinely didn’t get that, well, there it is. If you’re just being a troll, I really hope you don’t actually think because it’s acceptable to give non-sexual kisses to elderly ladies and babies that it follows that kissing isn’t adultery in the OP’s situation.

I’m not failing to read the comment in context of anything. I am reading the statement as it was written. I’m glad you feel the need to judge people as trolls. I’ll pray that God never judges you as that.

 

[Allegra]

I’m not failing to read the comment in context of anything. I am reading the statement as it was written. I’m glad you feel the need to judge people as trolls. I’ll pray that God never judges you as that.

Goodie goodie! A fake and condescending prayer! I heard those are Jesus’ favorite!

I wasn’t the one who said you were a troll, but you appear more and more trollish as you attept tp argue. You took the comment out of context…and you’re being very silly.

 

[Brianmcg321]

To sum things up: He’s a creep and YOU deserve better.

I disagree. He is a creep but she doesn’t deserve better. She’s having an affair with a married man and father. She gets what she gets.

 

[Clearwater14]

A serious question. I need to the know the truth.

A few months ago I began going for late night cocktails with a married man, and a new father, in fact.

He insists that the adultery never extends beyond kissing, caressing, viewing each other nude, basically everything but sex. He seems content with these amorous exchanges, and promises me that because he is only married through the state and not the church yet, it is really not yet adultery.

In every other sense of his life he is a Catholic man.

My question to you all relates to the validity of his statements, as I am deeply in love with him. Is it not yet adultery? Would the church care about state sanctioned marriage or can he leave his wife and child? Is there anywhere that states “everything except sex” is okay?

What is the Catholic perspective on this?

ladystardust,

This is adultery. Anything you wouldn’t do in front of your spouse is considered adultery. Porn is adultery. Going to strip clubs is adultery. Lap dances are adultery. Kissing, fondling, and caressing another person besides your spouse is adultery. You need to let his wife know about what has been going on. It is your duty to confess and tell his wife what her husband has been doing. She has a right to know. You would want to know if you were her. This is betrayal and lying. It doesn’t matter if they were not married in a Catholic Church. It is still adultery.

P.S. This married guy has a lack of character. He is lacking morals. He is sinning.