I am thinking of becoming a Baptist..

[look3467]

WarriorAngel
Jesus gave His Authority to HIS CHURCH and ONLY to His Church. He promised to guide and protect Her from error for eternity.

If Jesus is born in you, then you can rest assured that He will guide and lead you and protect you from all error.

Or else God is deceiving you.

So, why is it that they keep founding new Churches and teaching new versions of the Truth?>>>WarriorAngel

You really want to know? Freedom!

Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Would you say that Egypt kept the Israelite s’ in bondage?
And what happened when Moses delivered them?
Freedom?

Jesus is a type of Moses who delivered us from not only the bondage’s of this world but also from the bondage of hell.

The Jews today are still under bondage because they still hold to the old, and therefore remain as though Christ had never come.

For any organization that attempts to hold bondage its adherents must do it with fear of apostasy, therefore, under bondage.

I am made free in Christ and given the spirit of worship, meaning that I am free to worship God any way I choose.

For Catholics, there is not a choice, otherwise, they are apostates.

But again, you are free to choose, and if the Catholic Church is your form of worship, then by all means do it.

My hope is to introduce new views without being ostracized and still remain true to Jesus two commandments.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[look3467]

Dogmas keep one on the straight and the narrow.Christ founded ONE Church(the Catholic Church)for that express reason.To keep its followers on the True road of salvation-not to follow the errant Opinions of Men,hence the thousands and thousands of differnet Protestant Denominations with all of their differing doctrines and “Dogmas”.Christ gave YOU this Church.Please do not refuse His gift.

OK. That works for you!

The gift that Jesus gave me is eternal life! I could not earn it myself.

If a gift, then I accept it! I rest!

And if I rest, I cease working from trying to win my salvation any other way.

I found my Sabbath rest! Jesus!

Peace>>>AJ

 

[Soutane]

OK. That works for you!

The gift that Jesus gave me is eternal life! I could not earn it myself.

If a gift, then I accept it! I rest!

And if I rest, I cease working from trying to win my salvation any other way.

I found my Sabbath rest! Jesus!

Peace>>>AJ

Christ gave you a structure as well as a Faith.He said He would build HIS Church,not some vague concept to be replicated billions and billions of times in individual believers.If you didn’t have this Catholic Church you wouldn’t have your Bible,then where would you be?If you didn’t have this Catholic Church you would never have heard of Christ.Please spare me the patent nonsense that the Church doesn’t matter.When one doesn’t have the infalibility and inerrancy of the magisterium protected by the Holy Spirit you’ll believe any nonsense.Apparently YOU do.

 

[Soutane]

"If Jesus is born in you, then you can rest assured that He will guide and lead you and protect you from all error.

Or else God is deceiving you."

So THAT"S why there are 33,000+ versions of Protestantism and growing ! God gave us a Church.He would not deceive us but men deceive themselves all of the time because of Protestant rebelliousness and disrespect for the authority Christ gave His Catholic Church.

 

[michaelcollins]

"If Jesus is born in you, then you can rest assured that He will guide and lead you and protect you from all error.

Or else God is deceiving you."

So THAT"S why there are 33,000+ versions of Protestantism and growing ! God gave us a Church.He would not deceive us but men deceive themselves all of the time because of Protestant rebelliousness and disrespect for the authority Christ gave His Catholic Church.

Protestants do not believe in the 33,000 figure they divide themselves up so there are not more than several hundred. They claim the 33,000 is a catholic invention and they then argue about how many different Roman catholic sects there are.

Seems to me they have never turned there tv on on sunday befoer they go to church and if they have cable they can find about 100 differnet ones on any given sunday. They can also see different interpretations of the same scrpture on each channel. But the problem with the argument is it is a logical one, not based upon individual feel good doctrine but discipline to the church. The funny thing is most evangelical denominations are now further from Luther than he was from the church, they reject Calvin more than they reject the church, protestanism without an anchor is free to drift any direction the wind blows.

 

[Matariel]

Protestants do not believe in the 33,000 figure they divide themselves up so there are not more than several hundred. They claim the 33,000 is a catholic invention and they then argue about how many different Roman catholic sects there are.

“Catholic sects”? Catholics do not have divisions and denominations-- only Protestants, Orthodox, and Independent/Old Catholics do.

The Church is One-- and Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic.

 

[michaelcollins]

“Catholic sects”? Catholics do not have divisions and denominations-- only Protestants, Orthodox, and Independent/Old Catholics do.

The Church is One-- and Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic.

there is apparently some “new” defenses to the age old the catholic church is the only true church it is the only church that traces its origins back to Peter and ie Jesus, there are Protestants now claiming in response to the public interpretation of the bible and reformation has led to 33,000 prod denominations that there are “sect” or in their view denominations within the Roman Catholic church, not logical just what has been claimed by protestants in response to the 33,000 debate.

 

[Always_For_Him]

If Jesus is born in you, then you can rest assured that He will guide and lead you and protect you from all error.

The way that is worded and surely must be taught to mean that Jesus wasn’t just speaking to the Apostles when giving His Authority and promise to guide and protect His Church, but, that He was speaking to each and every human being - saying that each one of us has the ability to guide ourselves based on our own feelings on what feel Scripture is saying to us and by our own personal interpretation of what we conclude Scripture to mean. Do you know that this is absolutly non-Apostolic? Sola Scriptura was an invention of Martin Luther and ushered in during the Reformation. NT Scriputre IS Catholic teaching written down, and, it says to hold true to the teachings and traditions as they have been told to you and for there to be NO personal interpretation. You are not going to be able to interpret Scripture in the context in which it was written because you are in a church that was founded by man that did not respect Apostolic contextual teaching.

Or else God is deceiving you.

Or else the devil is deceiving you.

You really want to know? Freedom!

Freedom from what, the requirements of God? They do not change no matter how man wants them to to be easier or more convenient to follow. Contrary to what you have been brought up to believe, we ARE NOT free to go about making up doctrine, pulling quotes out of context from Scripture to mean what we want them to mean, teaching error as Truth because that is what we feel or will be more convenient for us. That was NEVER Apostolic teaching. That is heresy. Since heresy ushered itself in during the Reformation, look what man has done to the teachings that the Catholic Church, through the Holy Spirit, taught, protected and provided for you. The Catholic Church has continued to teach Jesus’ One Truth while the Protestants have splintered that teacings into thousands and thousands of different interpretations, meanings, teachings and doctrines. That is not of God, that is of the devil.

Catholic teaching is NOT bondage. It is living with the guidelines that God set forth for us, despite our sinful nature. We have to make our choices very carefully. The Reformation ushered in the age of think what you want, do what you want, the Bible can say whatever we need it to say. Again, the Bible IS Catholic teaching written for Catholics, so unless it is interpreted in the context in which it was written, it is interpreted and taught as error by non-Catholic Churches.

The Catholic Church is BEAUTIFUL! It has rich, deep, glorious Tradition and IS the Church that Jesus founded. If you follow the historically recorded trail back to the successors of the Apostles, who were taught by the Apostles themselves, you will learn the Truth as you don’t know it now.

The Jews today are still under bondage because they still hold to the old, and therefore remain as though Christ had never come.

That is their choice. Jesus let them make that choice. Their anscestors walked away when they thought Jesus’ teaching of eating His Body and Drinking His Blood for eternal salvation was too much to take. They didn’t believe that Jesus was the Son of God, so for them, the Old Covenant is still in play.

For any organization that attempts to hold bondage its adherents must do it with fear of apostasy, therefore, under bondage.

I don’t stay with the Catholic Church in fear of apostasy or because of fear. I stay with the Catholic Church because they have the beautiful, rich, deep, full teachings of Christ as we understand them we wrote them into Scripture, but also, because of the beautiful Tradition established by Jesus that we still experience today - the Eucharist. There is so much more. Also, because there was NO other Church that could have possibly been founded by Jesus on the Apostles at Pentecost. The Catholic Church IS Jesus’ Church. We are still here because Jesus has guided and protected Her just like He said He would.

I am made free in Christ and given the spirit of worship, meaning that I am free to worship God any way I choose…

That is what you have been taught, and you can legally do that, but that is NOT Apostolic teaching. If you asked Jesus, “Hey, do you mind if I just make this teaching mean what I want it to mean?”, what do you think He would say?

For Catholics, there is not a choice, otherwise, they are apostates.

You have to think this, otherwise you might have to admit the Catholic Church is who it says that it is. Besides, that, this statement, really, just doesn’t make any sense. We are not apostates. EVERYONE who left HER through the Reformation and remains separated from Her are apostate.

My hope is to introduce new views without being ostracized and still remain true to Jesus two commandments.

But, when it is man-made heresy, non-Apostolic ideas, it has to be shown to be error. There are no “new views” that Churches that self interpret Scritpure, then teach that as Truth could teach to the now 2,000 year-old teachers, guiders, and protectors of Jesus’ Deposit of Faith - the Catholic Church.

Peace be with you too!

Peace>>>AJ

 

[michaelcollins]

for the protestants on this thread who have questioned the beliefs of catholics what is your response to the fact the catholic church traces its history back to Jesus and protestant denominations all trace their origin to some man at some time certain?

I had a real problem with that concept as a protestant, if jesus was sent to die for me I cannot believe he would wait 1500 years to give man the true answers about his church, it makes no sense. dont take the debate to the church was corrupt because all churches are made up of sinners and in that vein are corupt and please, lets not debate the morality of martin luther.

 

[Always_For_Him]

You aren’t going to get any closer to the teachings of Christ than the Catholic Church, so why are you following the errant, fallible teachings of man that have changed, morphed, have been newly created, thought up and personally interpreted? While non-Catholic Churches have SOME of Christ’s teachings (because most went through the Reformation without being changed) these Churches are founded by man to further his own teachings and ideology. Just look how many times the Protestant Churches have splintered and divided and splintered and divided, and the different teachings and doctrines that have been created/taught/believed from them in LESS than 500 years.

 

[Matariel]

While non-Catholic Churches have SOME of Christ’s teachings (because most went through the Reformation without being changed) …Protestant Churches have splintered and divided and splintered and divided…

Always for Him, when referring to non-Catholic groups it’s more accurate to describe them as sects, denominations or groups. Also, the word “Church” should not be capitalized unless:

A) It is being used in the name of an organization, such as “United Methodist Church”…

or

B) You are referring to* the *Church, i.e., the Catholic Church.

Just trying to help.

 

[Always_For_Him]

Always for Him, when referring to non-Catholic groups it’s more accurate to describe them as sects, denominations or groups. Also, the word “Church” should not be capitalized unless:

A) It is being used in the name of an organization, such as “United Methodist Church”…

or

B) You are referring to* the *Church, i.e., the Catholic Church.

Just trying to help.

Thanks for that. I almost feel guilty typing the word church and not capitalizing it, so, I think I just do it. You are right about calling them sects, denominations or groups, but I also know that church can be interchangable. They do go to churches, they are called churches, so I just use it as I would use denomination. I actually detest the word sect. I know that some on this forum are from sects, but it is a “hot” word and I prefer not to use it.

 

[Soutane]

Protestants do not believe in the 33,000 figure they divide themselves up so there are not more than several hundred. They claim the 33,000 is a catholic invention and they then argue about how many different Roman catholic sects there are.

Seems to me they have never turned there tv on on sunday befoer they go to church and if they have cable they can find about 100 differnet ones on any given sunday. They can also see different interpretations of the same scrpture on each channel. But the problem with the argument is it is a logical one, not based upon individual feel good doctrine but discipline to the church. The funny thing is most evangelical denominations are now further from Luther than he was from the church, they reject Calvin more than they reject the church, protestanism without an anchor is free to drift any direction the wind blows.

There are MANY more than several hundred in my yellow pages and I live in a very small community.The 33,000+ number bothers them because the existance of more than one is indefensible let alone a multiplicity of thousands.It thoroughly proves as a lie that Christ founded more than one Church-the Catholic Church.

 

[michaelcollins]

There are MANY more than several hundred in my yellow pages and I live in a very small community.The 33,000+ number bothers them because the existance of more than one is indefensible let alone a multiplicity of thousands.It thoroughly proves as a lie that Christ founded more than one Church-the Catholic Church.

As I phrased it I have NEVER had a protestant respond to my post about the church and tracing its roots to Jesus and Peter and every protestant church tracing to a man at a time specific 1500 plus yrs later

 

[look3467]

"If Jesus is born in you, then you can rest assured that He will guide and lead you and protect you from all error.

Or else God is deceiving you."

So THAT"S why there are 33,000+ versions of Protestantism and growing ! God gave us a Church.He would not deceive us but men deceive themselves all of the time because of Protestant rebelliousness and disrespect for the authority Christ gave His Catholic Church.

The insistence is greater then the message1

Just as the law was to Israel is what the message is to Christians.

The law says you must , while Jesus’ message says come all if you are thirsty.

The message I get from Catholics is that I must belong to the catholic Church, while the message of Christianity says, come and receive Jesus as your personal Savior.

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[look3467]

The way that is worded and surely must be taught to mean that Jesus wasn’t just speaking to the Apostles when giving His Authority and promise to guide and protect His Church, but, that He was speaking to each and every human being - saying that each one of us has the ability to guide ourselves based on our own feelings on what feel Scripture is saying to us and by our own personal interpretation of what we conclude Scripture to mean. Do you know that this is absolutly non-Apostolic? Sola Scriptura was an invention of Martin Luther and ushered in during the Reformation. NT Scriputre IS Catholic teaching written down, and, it says to hold true to the teachings and traditions as they have been told to you and for there to be NO personal interpretation. You are not going to be able to interpret Scripture in the context in which it was written because you are in a church that was founded by man that did not respect Apostolic contextual teaching.>>> Always for Him

You may argue all you want until you are blue in the face about the teachings and traditions, but will never take away from the fact that Jesus is free to reside in any heart He so pleases, regardless of what mankind may say.

“Always for Him” is a wonderful handle to have, which shows that your heart is after God’s own heart.

And if it is in the Catholic Church where you can most apply your faith works in, then there is where you need be.

But to conclude that outside your frame of understanding of the Catholic Church lies no good thing, then you must ask God to reveal a thing or two to you.

Freedom from what, the requirements of God? They do not change no matter how man wants them to to be easier or more convenient to follow. Contrary to what you have been brought up to believe, we ARE NOT free to go about making up doctrine, pulling quotes out of context from Scripture to mean what we want them to mean, teaching error as Truth because that is what we feel or will be more convenient for us. That was NEVER Apostolic teaching. That is heresy. Since heresy ushered itself in during the Reformation, look what man has done to the teachings that the Catholic Church, through the Holy Spirit, taught, protected and provided for you. The Catholic Church has continued to teach Jesus’ One Truth while the Protestants have splintered that teacings into thousands and thousands of different interpretations, meanings, teachings and doctrines. That is not of God, that is of the devil.>>>Always for Him

Again, the insistence is on compliance with the Catholic Church over what should rather be the message of God’s love for a lost world.

What it comes down to is in selling the container and not the product that works.

Catholic teaching is NOT bondage. It is living with the guidelines that God set forth for us, despite our sinful nature. We have to make our choices very carefully. The Reformation ushered in the age of think what you want, do what you want, the Bible can say whatever we need it to say. Again, the Bible IS Catholic teaching written for Catholics, so unless it is interpreted in the context in which it was written, it is interpreted and taught as error by non-Catholic Churches.>>>Always for Him

The container (the Catholic Church) the message (Jesus and His salvation) becomes two issues. Can not be either or, for if only Jesus, then it can not be true, but if it is the church and Jesus, then it is true.

Though it may be packaged tighter, the one become more significant then what the inside product is.
It is like saying, become a member of the Catholic Church and you can have Jesus for real, otherwise, He is not.

If the Catholic Church was to be the sole interpreter, then it should have never compiled the books into a bible, but because it did, it opened up the door for its adherents to see for themselves what it is that is stated in there.

Now there will you find that differences of opinion have arisen, because the power is taken away from the institution and given to the individual.

Thus, freedom from is due to knowledge gained, where as before, it was hidden and the people held in bondage.

Fear? Try leaving the Catholic Church and see where that gets you?

Where as I, am not a Catholic am fully secure in my salvation in Jesus Christ of which I have want of anything.

Peace>>>AJ