I Am Truth

[Pax]

I don’t know of anyone other than Jesus that referred to themselves as “the truth.” Likewise, no one else claimed to be God. Only Jesus made these claims. This is something unique among all of the great religions. Jesus is more than just a prophet.

The only thinker that comes to mind that said anything that begins to approach this **idea ** of truth was Plato. Plato talks about “the good” and he does refer to “the good” as “the truth” and “beauty.” When Plato is done discussing “the good” it becomes clear that the Idea of the Good is held to be the author of all things, that it is “beyond being” and is the last, greatest, and most difficult reality to behold. Plato is talking about God.

Scripture says some interesting things about truth and what is good.

Mark 10:17-18
And as he was setting out on his journey, a man ran up and knelt before him, and asked him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” And Jesus said to him, **“Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.” **the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father.

John 14:16-18
And I will pray the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, to be with you for ever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him; you know him, for he dwells with you, and will be in you. “I will not leave you desolate; I will come to you.”

John 17:17-19
Sanctify them in the truth; thy word is truth. As thou didst send me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be consecrated in truth.

Plato did not know God as we do and Plato never met Jesus. Nevertheless, Plato was a great thinker and he was on to something in his musings about truth and the good.

 

[Pax]

…
…

If you say that Christ died for everyone, then every single person will be saved in the end.

The second half of your statement is not the only logical possibility resulting from the first half. Nor is it the only scriptural possibility. Christ died for the sins of all; one drop of Jesus blood is sufficient for that purpose. Not all men are saved because the gift of salvation is not accepted by all men and is, therefore, not applied to all men.

If you really want to discuss this issue, it would be best to start another thread. This is simply off topic.

 

[mgrfin]

Sure.
What does yours say?

Mine says more than yours does.

Of course, the verse from Romans 5:18 must be put in the context of the whole of God’s word, and of Christ’s redemptive act.

St. Thomas Aquinas comments: “All men, born of Adam, according to the flesh, sin and die in him and by him; so all men who are born spiritually in Christ are justified and vivified in him and by him.” By the merits of Christ all men are potentially justified, and would be in fact, if they fulfilled the requisite conditions. The universality of sin is absolute, because it comes from a condition inherent in our condition; the fact which constitutes us men and children of Adam constitutes us sinners. On the contrary, we do not become members of Christ as we become members of the human family, without our own participation. The faith, which makes us children of grace, and the baptism which regenerates us, are something superadded to our nature.

As Adam is the type of Christ, as the type is, by its nature, less perfect than the antitype, besides these relations, there will also be differences.

As usual with these strange theologies, they take a verse from scripture and quote it out of its context. Not only from its own context in Romans, but out of context with the Gospels, and words of Christ himself.

In Romans, Chapter 6: 1-2, St. Paul sets your record of misunderstanding straight. “What shall we say, then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. For we who are dead to sin, how shall we live any longer therein? “

Yes, we have to participate in the Redemption by the lives we live. Romans 6: 12-13: ‘Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, so as to obey the lusts thereof. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of iniquity unto sin; but present yourselves to God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of justice unto God.

Romans 6: 15: What then? Shall we sin, because we are not under the Law, but under grace? God forbid.” Romans 6: 23: “For the wages of sin is death. But the Grace of God, life everlasting, in Christ Jesus our Lord”.

I’ll leave the post with just one quote from St. Paul 2ndThess: 1:6-10: “Indeed it is just on the part of God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to give you who are afflicted rest with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus, who will come from heaven with the angels of his power, in flaming fire, to inflict punishment on those who do not know God, and who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These will be punished with eternal ruin, away from the face of the Lord and the glory of his power, when on that day he shall come to be glorified in his saints and to be marveled at those who have believed.”

And the words of Jesus himself:
Matt 25:41 “Then he will say to those on his left hand, “Depart from me, accursed ones, into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels.”

So, hell is not closed to us.

peace

 

[Kitty_Chan]

from Aristotle (via Peter Kreeft)

“One speaks the truth when one says of what is that it is and what is not that it is not; one does not speak the truth when one says of what is that it is not and what is not that it is”

Now, apply this to what Jesus said about himself

Its a mouth full, ya have to actually say that out loud

I think Im getting what is that it is but little foggy on what is not that it is not.

more hints please

 

[mgrfin]

So do you have your sins forgiven on the basis of your penitence?God requires of you perfect perpetual obedience to his holy law. Have you done this?

It is false that if you commit serious sins right now without repentance, then you go to heaven. Because it can be true that a man sins and then does not go to heaven. A conditonal is false when the antecedent is true and the consequent false.

Christ’s death actually expiated sins, it is not a hypothetical possibility. If you say that Christ died for everyone, then every single person will be saved in the end.

Your logic does not follow my Aristotelian logic. It is always fun to talk to a Philosopher.
But:
It is true, (NOT FALSE) that if I commit serious sins right now and repent, I will go to heaven. I have repented, therefore, I will go to heaven.

If I have committed serious sin, and If I do not repent I will not go to heaven. I will go to hell.

What branch of Protestantism is it that denies Hell, and denies unrepentant punishment for sins? Have you folks stopped reading your Bibles? What ever happened to good ol’ fire and brimestone?
You say:
“God requires of you perfect (???) perpetual (???)obedience to his holy law.”

And if I fail with grevious sin, I can’t repent? I am with St. Paul on this one.

What ever happened to ‘human fraility’ in your scenario of human existence. Even as perfect as Adam and Eve were, they sinned.
So you would like every human, perfect, perpetual obedience to God’s Law, even after the Fall?. Martin Luther would never say that. St. Paul would never say that.

peace

 

[Kitty_Chan]

I don’t know of anyone other than Jesus that referred to themselves as “the truth.” Likewise, no one else claimed to be God. Only Jesus made these claims. This is something unique among all of the great religions. Jesus is more than just a prophet.

Thats what I thought, no other leader said these things.

The only thinker that comes to mind that said anything that begins to approach this **idea ** of truth was Plato. Plato talks about “the good” and he does refer to “the good” as “the truth” and “beauty.” When Plato is done discussing “the good” it becomes clear that the Idea of the Good is held to be the author of all things, that it is “beyond being” and is the last, greatest, and most difficult reality to behold. Plato is talking about God.

Plato did not know God as we do and Plato never met Jesus. Nevertheless, Plato was a great thinker and he was on to something in his musings about truth and the good.

Pax, et al

So if Christ and the Truth are inseparable then could it be said that Plato had a glimpse of Him?

And what about others? Throughout time there are those who didnt know God but have said truths, what about them?

Remembering there is no truth apart from Christ.

 

[mgrfin]

Please explain? I’m not sure what that sentence (highlighted) means. The Church did not take the place of Christ and to say there is no Jesus? I don’t understand what your saying.

The Church *possesses * truth if it is loyal and obedient to Jesus who *is * truth. Jesus / God alone is truth. God and His Word Incarnate is the ultimate truth - not the Church. The further the Church strays from God/Christ the more it becomes a falsehood. Furthermore, the Church does not have exclusive possession of God - He belongs and comes to everyone, he desires salvation for everyone - not just catholics.

Another perfect Christian, who is 100 percent certain of going to heaven.

The Church did take the place of Jesus. Jesus gave the mission to the Catholic Church to stand in his place, to be his Vicar on earth.

He guaranteed it faithfulness and truth, without error, the sign to lead the world to heavenb.

What do you mean that the Church strays (further) from God/Christ, and becomes a falsehood?

Christian communities number 1300 or 13000 - their multiplication is proof that they lack truth. Truth therein is what an individual says it is today. Christ said to his Church, “I will be with you till the end of time, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against you”. You call Jesus a liar? You say he will forsake his promises? And, on Pentecost He sent the Holy Spirit to be with the Catholic Church.

“Credo in…unam sanctam catholicam apostolicam ecclesiam.”
These words were written down in 325 AD. They are as true today as they were then, and before.

peace

 

[paarsurrey]

He is the Truth.

Hi

May I ask you a little question, sir.

How do you know that Jesus said “He is the Truth”?

Do you mean Moses was not the Truth or truth was not with him or he was not from the Truth or he was not of the truth or he had no truth in him?

I think Moses was also truth.

Thanks

 

[whatistruth]

Hi

May I ask you a little question, sir.

How do you know that Jesus said “He is the Truth”?

Do you mean Moses was not the Truth or truth was not with him or he was not from the Truth or he was not of the truth or he had no truth in him?

I think Moses was also truth.

Thanks

Jesus Christ and his Church is the “Truth” Moses only wrote about the the “Truth”. Remember when Jesus told the Jews “Moses wrote about me”

 

[Ahimsa]

So, hell is not closed to us.

Hell is defeated already:

The doctrine of the descent of Christ into Hades occupies an essential place in the works of Cyril of Alexandria. In his ‘Paschal Homilies’, he repeatedly mentions that as a consequence of the descent of Christ into Hades, the devil was left all alone, while hell was devastated: ‘For having destroyed hell and opened the impassable gates for the departed spirits, He left the devil there abandoned and lonely’[19].

Now, don’t take this as an excuse to gamble, womanize, and get drunk.

 

[Lion_of_Narnia]

I think Im getting what is that it is but little foggy on what is not that it is not.

more hints please

ok, so we have **Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6 **

As discussed before he did not say in in terms of “I speak the truth” but as utterly personal and particular in the same way he said:
“‘I and the Father are one’” (John 10:30).
and
"Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM” (John 8:58).

so,

“Aut deus aut homo malus” (Either God or a bad man) and “Non ergo homo malus, ergo deus” (If not a bad man, then God)

 

[justinthemartyr]

The statement speaks for itself.

I am the way, the truth and the life.

without Jesus there would be no way for us, no truth for us and no life for us.
He created everything and He was before there was.

 

[Kitty_Chan]

Hi

May I ask you a little question, sir.

How do you know that Jesus said “He is the Truth”?

Do you mean Moses was not the Truth or truth was not with him or he was not from the Truth or he was not of the truth or he had no truth in him?

I think Moses was also truth.

Thanks

Hi Paar

Just to be clear I am a lady type, I thought the name would give it away. But maybe you are not familar with the little white cartoon cat from Japan with the bow? Hello Kitty. I picked her because she loves her family and friends and try to get along with everyone. Anyway, now you know.

Back to your question. Lion of Narnia also has answered it just above this post, they say it clearly I believe.

And to add Moses was not THE Truth. He **said **the Truth and Im sure the Truth **was with **Moses.

But Moses could not say** he **was the Truth. Only Jesus said He was the Truth.

Do you see the difference in what Im saying?

 

[whatisthetruth]

HI paarsurrey

You posted a good question

May I ask you a little question, sir. How do you know that Jesus said “He is the Truth”?

My answer is, I believe by faith God’s word the bible when He said…
**

2 Timothy 3:16,17
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

**

Do you mean Moses was not the Truth or truth was not with him or he was not from the Truth or he was not of the truth or he had no truth in him?
I think Moses was also truth.

I believe the story of Moses is every bit true as any other story. I believe the bible it God’s true word cover to cover.

Is moses “the truth” as Jesus was saying "I am, the truth,
it may appear that way, however when you include rest of the verse…

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

There is no way one can place Moses on the same level as Jesus after reading the complete bible.

Can you??

truth

 

[whatisthetruth]

hi again mgrfin

There you go again. Our sins after baptism are not automatically forgiven by God. You say we don’t have to have sorrow; we don’t have to repent.

I never said were automatically forgive. Please show me where I said sins are forgiven without one sincelerly repenting and confessing to Jesus.

I feel there you go again of misunderstanding me. From another thread…

You misunderstood the meaning of Matt, Chapter 7. The meaning is : “Every one who says to me Lord, Lord, shall not enter the Kingdom of Heaven; but, he who does the will of my Father in heaven.” You are saying “Lord, Lord…” - that is no guarantee.

I replied

I am sorry you feel I misunderstood that verse. As you just said and I said above, “I live my life knowing I have accepted in my heart the promise of God and I live my life according to His word” including repentance and confession to Jesus when we sin. and not Satan’s temptations to sin.

I added “including repentance and confession to Jesus when we sin” as part of living to His word so we understand

Do we now understand each other on the verse in Matt 7?

From my previous post, this thread, …

God I am sorry for sinning against you and I ask you to forgive me. I believe Jesus died for my sins, I hate the things I have done. I invite Jesus to be the Lord and saviour of my life.

underlined is repenting

**"Jesus would answer my prayer **and say to me your sins are forgiven you are free. Jesus took my place and set me free.

Jesus payed the ransom for our sins.
He died in our place so we can be free and have a new life to honor Him

in appreciation of the gift He offers all of us

Part of honoring Him is to live my life according to His word and have a sincere want to turn away(repent) from doing anything that God hates.

you said

Remember, you have no guarantee you are going to heaven unless you repent of all your sins.

Agree. Man’s faithfulness to God may break down
God’s faithfulness to man will never break
As I have previously said.

If there was a chance that God would break His promise, we would have nothing to live for but just a hope we make it to heaven.

Do you believe it is God’s intent, just to give us a hope and not a promise we make it…if we remain faithful to Him according to His word, including repentance and confession to Jesus when we sin.

yes___ no______

Or

Do you believe it is God’s intent…after seeing His children who remain faithful and live according to His word, after they meet death, His promise can be fulfilled by granting eternal life in heaven to His faithful chidren?
yes___ no____

I have said in previous threads, I still will fall into sin. Having done so, God’s promise is He will forgive me of that sin when I sincerely repent and confess to Jesus my Lord and saviour.

Let me say this so we are clear mgrfin, there is no way I am saying…
if I ask Jesus to forgive me of my all my sins today He will forgive me and I am free to live my life anyway I want from that point on. All future sins I commit God will forgive me. **To say that would be **stupid, rediculous, **a total disrespect for God. **

If you rob, and repent to the police, and return the goods, you still go to prison

.

absolutely.

And even after you die, the punishment due to your sins has to be answered for. You have to pay for your sins, like your crimes.

on earth not in heaven

Prime example in the bible. One of my favorite stories.

From Matt 18
32"Then the master called the servant in. ‘You wicked servant,’ he said, ‘I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’ 34In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.

35"This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart."

here is an area I sure we disagree on. I made a comment to your statement on another thread…

At the moment of your death, the devil will seek to grab your soul for himself.

I replied to that…

Ah!!! Here is one area I believe we disagree.

Let me ask you again so I understand, if I am on my death bed and while I still have a chance, I say a final sincere prayer to God of confession and repentance…

Do you believe God will forgive me of all my sin?

yes________ no________

if no why?

If you answered yes, then upon my death, and after God had just forgiven me, do you believe Satan can still claim my soul and I will spend eternity in hell?

yes_____ no______

If yes, please explain

thanks

truth

 

[whatisthetruth]

mgrfin

Jesus gave his priests and bishop to forgive sin.

Disagree.

Does your pastor absolve you of your sins? No, he doesn’t even claim to have that power.

I agree, my Pastor does not have that power nor would I want Him to. He has even said he would not want that power.

Priest and bishops in the Catholic Church take that authority given by Jesus Christ.

To want extent is that authority? leadership role?
the apostles had a personal relationship with Jesus, they follwed Him and believed in Him and knew Him more than anyone else.

you said in another thread…

As for absolution, let me begin with a Scripture: Jesus said to his apostles: Who’s sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; who’s sins you shall retain they are retained"

.
from the verses you referred, did Jesus give them the power to forgive sins?

I highly disagree. Since this is a truth thread lets discuss the truth of God’s word.

You know the verses.

yes I do,

John 20
21Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."

Is this scripture too direct, and too simple for our Bible loving Christian friends?

No need for sarcasm, is there?
Let me ask you…
Would you work or drive a car without referring to the owner’s manual?
Would you operate a power tool without referring to the owner’s manual?
If you received a love letter from your significant other, wouldn’t you read it at the first chance you got?

You are God’s wonderful creation and He gave you His word, the bible, to live our lives by.

too simple for our Bible loving Christian friends

I love reading my bible, I feel guilty when I do not read it as often as I should.
The bible is God’s personal love letter to all of us.
What does the bible mean to you?

Why do you believe God said…

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John3:16

**

What does that verse mean to you?

mgrfin, I agree Jesus said “If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven” to the apostles, I do not agree he gave them the power and eventually the priests, bishops, cardinals and pope to forgive sins.

Here is why.

**they were human and subjest to sin just like you and I.
**You and I can receive the Holy Spirit just like they did
**Having received the Holy Spirit does not give us the power to absolve sins.
**Even If they had the power, where in scripture does it say that after the apostles died who then would be given the power to absolve sins.
**The aposletle would not know if the confessor is hiding any sin.
Only Jesus would know if someone is being totally honest in their confession.

I do believe in my heart God is saying to them something to the effect…

If someone robbed your house and never returned the goods to you and then later was identified. When asked about the stolen property, they lied saying, it was a gift from you.

obviously you may be upset.
However, If they at sometime in the future say to you "I am sorry for taking your property and lying about it and does not repay you for the stolen property, God will want you to forgive Him.

Another example of one forgiving another is…

Since you in California, wow I hope you were not invlved with all those fires, what a tragedy. I hope all your friends and family were not involved.
In Lancaster Pa, there was a grade school shooting were the guy after murdering young chilren at the schoolhouse, turned the gun on himself and commited suicide. Without hesitation the amish parents of the children when inquired by the media said that
they want to let the wife of the killer know that they as a community offer their forgiveness to the killer.
When I heard that I said WOW, that is exactly what God meant when he said…

to be continued…**

 

[whatisthetruth]

Matthew 6:14
For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
Colossians 3:13
Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you.
Matthew 6:15
But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.
Mark 11:25
And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive him, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins."
Matt 18:35
This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart

Even in the Lord’s prayer…

Matthew 6:12
Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors

.
Luke 11:4
Forgive us our sins, for we also forgive everyone who sins against us. And lead us not into temptation

The above verses illustrate how I need to forgive my enemy in my heart, before I can even think about God forgiving me. Just like the people of lancaster did.

Agree??

Here is a question, If Jesus gave the the apostles the power to absolve sins “implied” in one or two verses that may be taken that way, why then are there so many other verses which point to Jesus being the only One who can forgive sins??

As follows…

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Mark 2:7,10
“Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?” But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins . . .
Luke 5:20
When Jesus saw their faith, he said, “Friend, your sins are forgiven.”
Luke 7:48
Then Jesus said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.”
Hebrews 8:12
For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more."

Direct quotes from Jesus, especially the one as He was dying on the cross…

Luke 23:34
Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.”

Other verses pointing to Jesus…

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
Hebrews 9:22
In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness

.
Ephesians 1:7
In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace
Colossians 1:13,14
1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 2:12
I write to you, dear children, because your sins have been forgiven on account of his name.
Colossians 1:13,14
For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
Acts 13:38
“Therefore, my brothers, I want you to know that through Jesus the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you.
Acts 10:43
All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Quote:
Originally Posted by whatistruth
If there is no One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church, then there is no Jesus. The Church is what Jesus gave himself up for. He gave it up for the Truth which lies in the Church, the Soul of the Holy Sprit.

Umm… Jesus gave Himself up in atonement for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD… Not just us Catholics… I’m sorry to comment on your statement but I never meant any offense. Believe me I’m on your side.

Thing is you sound like the other extreme of the argument some fundamentalists present when they claim that Jesus is their “own” personal Lord and Savior when they were “born again” or “saved”. As if Jesus didn’t die for the people who weren’t “born again”…

You are correct that Jesus gave Himself for all humanity, but He considers all people to be POTENTIALLY included in His Church, which is what whatistruth meant by “The Church”.

The gift of the Church to mankind is what Jesus gave all people. It’s good to be clear that no one OWNS Jesus, though! What a crazy idea that is!

Humanity was created FOR inclusion in the Church, and the more who CHOOSE the Church the better!

 

[whatisthetruth]

And finally Paul’s own testimony as he recalls what Jesus told Him…

Acts 26:17,18
17 I will rescue you from your own people and from the Gentiles. I am sending you to them 18 to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’

Is this scripture too direct, and too simple for our Bible loving Christian friends?

Let me ask you, waht message are you getting from all the verses I posted.

And please do not give me the “traditonal answer” What is God saying to you as I just quoted Him?

When I sin I get on my knees and I repent and confess directly to Jesus and ask for forgiveness of my sin. that is what His word says. I believe His word I am covered.

However, by you stating…

Jesus gave his priests and bishop to forgive sin,

if that were true, we both are forgiven since you are forgiven by the priests and bishops(which you believe Jesus gave power to do) and I am forgiven by Jesus Himself.

if it were not true, How many Catholics of this world would have a rude awakening realizing the priest at confession does not have the power to forgive sins, only Jesus does?

mgrfin, any scripture verse/verses taken out of text can be taken the wrong way from the message God intended. That is why the whole bible is important.

I am just curious, why do you believe that Jesus our Lord and Savior would endure all that pain and suffering and eventual death on the cross for?

To have one of His desciples forgive sin?
He wouldn’t have to die, if that were the case, would he?

one of Jesus last words on the cross were…

Luke 23:34
Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.”

He did not ask His desciples to forgive, He asked God.

What is the truth? I hope we all can agree one day or someone may be in for a unsuspected surprise when they get to heaven. I do not want to sound harsh, it is the reality of the situation.

I pray to God HIs truth is revealed so we all can celebrate in paradise

truth

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

…

Let me ask you, waht message are you getting from all the verses I posted.

And please do not give me the “traditonal answer” What is God saying to you as I just quoted Him?

When I sin I get on my knees and I repent and confess directly to Jesus and ask for forgiveness of my sin. that is what His word says. I believe His word I am covered.

However, by you stating…

if that were true, we both are forgiven since you are forgiven by the priests and bishops(which you believe Jesus gave power to do) and I am forgiven by Jesus Himself.

You ARE proven contrite with God in your confession in prayer, but you have not paid your minimum penance by full reconciliation with the Body of Christ in the person of one acting in persona Christi.

if it were not true, How many Catholics of this world would have a rude awakening realizing the priest at confession does not have the power to forgive sins, only Jesus does?

The Priest is in persona Christi, whether you understand that or not. ONLY Jesus DOES have the power to forgive sins, and part of being forgiven is to do one’s penance which is MINIMALLY accomplished by the act of physically confessing to Christ as an ordained man in persona Christi.

mgrfin, any scripture verse/verses taken out of text can be taken the wrong way from the message God intended. That is why the whole bible is important.

I am just curious, why do you believe that Jesus our Lord and Savior would endure all that pain and suffering and eventual death on the cross for?

To have one of His desciples forgive sin?
He wouldn’t have to die, if that were the case, would he?

one of Jesus last words on the cross were…

He did not ask His desciples to forgive, He asked God.

What is the truth? I hope we all can agree one day or someone may be in for a unsuspected surprise when they get to heaven. I do not want to sound harsh, it is the reality of the situation.

If you are “right” we Catholics are simply being overly careful. If we are “right” your “confessions” are incomplete.

Which surprise sounds more “dangerous” to you?

I pray to God HIs truth is revealed so we all can celebrate in paradise

truth

Amen!