I believe Jesus was never a god who became man

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Jesus was God and become man,HE is the Father, the SON and the Hs,
thank of it like me i,m father,son and gradfather and husband,pick any three and i,m still just one,
Hello Bill, i would like to make a correction to this statement, if i may… Jesus is not the Father or the Holy Spirit. Jesus is God, The Father is God, and the Holy Spirit is God (One God, with 3 persons) however, The Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is not the Father. “The Son is begotten of the Father and the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son. Yet all three are co eternal, co-equal, uncreated and omnipotent.” In quotes, taken from the Catholic Encyclopedia.
 
**R_Not, You are discussing sex life of Muhammad again and again. I am beginning to wonder about the beautiful sex life of your God.

As paarsurrey has interestingly pointed out that Jesus may have had sex parts i.e. sex organs, but did not use them. Did he really not make use of them? Why?

It appears that while he was not a man, your God must have had sex parts in heavens.too but not using them. (Is he still having them there? What for?) You are a funny person who is discussing sex life of Muhammad. For humans, It is not bad to have sex life with the male and female parts. But what your god did with his sex parts and why did he have them or did he have them??**
Oh, how I love to hear how Muslims talk! But I don’t know whether this kind of language will make you look very chaste, humble and poise. You sound just like a dirty old man that don’t have any boundary on what is crude and refine. You are totally blasé I am afraid to say. If you can talk like that about Jesus, a person whom you respect as a holy prophet, I don’t know how you will talk about just anybody else. That’s why I said, you don’t sound peaceful at all, and I am sure you are not peaceful in real life. Saying that you are a Muslim of peaceful Islam is totally a farce judging just by the way you are talking. That much I can say hear about your language!

Why are you afraid to discuss about Mohammad? We are not interested about his sex life. It’s his morality that comes into question here. You Muslims who pride yourselves with high sexual morality should welcome the securitization of Mohammad’s own moral because that’s where you derive your own. If Mohammad fails the test, then it’s just hollow boast that Muslims are morally better than us or anybody else for that matter.
 
Hi

I love Jesus and Mary and their true teachings so in that sense we Ahmadi peaceful Muslims are the only true Catholics or the only true Christians; but we prefer to call ourselves Ahmadi Muslims so that others do know what we are. It is only we who have truthfully accepted the Gospel of Jesus - the good tidings that Muhammad is a truthful Messenger of God whose other name is Ahmad. We have also accepted Second Coming 1835-1908 as per the Prophecy of Muhammad.

This is my opinion; others could differ with it, no compulsion.

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna

Thanks
Your words so far have no meaning as you cannot account for what you have said. You are a hit and run poster. You made one statement after another without knowing what you are saying or backing them up with fact or at least reason. None, nothing.

You start one thread after another but when you are confronted with answers you simply go and start another one. Even if you are a peaceful Muslim, I do not think it is a smart Muslim. I am not saying you are NOT smart, most likely you are too smart, but by making statements without rationalizing them do not make you appear good at all.

You said a perfect man must marry and have children; yet you said Jesus was a perfect man. And you have not disclosed to us what the motive of Paul might be. You have not answered whether God is able to be God and man at the same time. Surely you owe it to the participants of this thread to at least explain your statements when being asked to do so.
 
I love Jesus and Mary and their true teachings so in that sense we Ahmadi peaceful Muslims are the only true Catholics or the only true Christians
No, my friend, I am sorry. This is not acceptable. To be a Christian means something different than what you must think it does, if you consider yourself one while also believing in the Qur’an and its version of Christ. If you want to know what being a Christian actually is, you can read the articles on this site, or an Orthodox site. It is better for you to learn from people who follow Christianity what it is to be Christian than to assume that you already know it based on your scripture. You do not follow the Bible, right? You consider it corrupted? You do not go to mass or divine liturgy? You do not believe that Christ has risen? You are not baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit? You do not eat his flesh and drink his blood, which is the most perfect and holy sacrifice? If you cannot believe these things and preform these actions, you are not a Christian. I’m sorry, my friend. I pray that one day you will be one, but you cannot be one right now.
It is only we who have truthfully accepted the Gospel of Jesus
You have not done so. Open up a Bible sometime. Right now, in fact. Meditate upon it. Pray about it. If you find that you can accept it, then we (Christians) can accept this claim. But we cannot accept this claim from someone who does takes some other book, some other religious tradition, and then tries to say that they are still Christian. No. Christianity is not an empty word that you can fill with whatever meaning that you want, and certainly Christ is not a figure who exists for your manipulation. In terms of the books we are to consider holy, there is the Bible. That is all. No Qur’an. You cannot have the Bible or one of the Gospels (there is no “Gospel of Jesus”, by the way) and then add to it the Qur’an and pretend that one supports the other. It does not. You have not accepted the Bible so long as you accept the Qur’an instead.
This is my opinion; others could differ with it, no compulsion.
Thanks, Paarsurrey. I wish all Muslims (and for that matter, everyone) would take seriously this “no compulsion” idea. It does not just sound like a good idea…it really is one! No one can force anyone to come to Christ as Muslims force non-Muslims to come to Islam. It is antithetical to our religion. Hopefully someday Muslims will realize the reasons why this would be a good idea for their religion, too. Everyone will say that’s naive (and they’re right), but on an individual level, it can happen. Everything, absolutely everything, is possible with God. Hopefully you and I can agree on that. 🙂
 
You said a perfect man must marry and have children; yet you said Jesus was a perfect man.
Hi

I never said that Jesus is the only perfect man. I think I wrote in some thread Jesus is a perfect man among many perfect men. A perfect man is who is acknowledged by God Allah YHWH to be a perfect man. Such persons are called Messengers of God Allah YHWH, so in that sense there are about 124000 perfect men whom God Allah YHWH selected as a Model for their people at differnt places and times in human history. So Jesus of Quran who was a truthful servant of God Allah YHWH was definitely a perfect man; no doubt about it and I love him.

As soon as the Catholics add an absolute attribute of divinity in Jesus; to that extent he loses the perfectness of a human being.

As I wrote earlier; man is apt to err sometimes so that he is humble and has humility; this is an attribute of a human, when you add an attribute which truly belogs to GodAllahYHWH ie Jesus never erred, a lofty attribut, then on one hand he does not become a divine just because you say so, on the other hand you make him imperfect man in your imagination.

That is why I said let Jesus remain a perfect man at least. Now it is upto you, if you correct your imagination for not; no compulsion.

I love Jesus a perfect man as were Buddha and Krishna perfect men.

Thanks
 
Paarsurrey says:
It is only we (Ahmadi peaceful Muslim) who have truthfully accepted the Gospel of Jesus.
You have not done so. Open up a Bible sometime. Right now, in fact.
Hi

I appreciate the contents of your post.

I have, however, to point out a fallacy in your above quote.

Jesus never read the NTBible; so it is not that significant to read it.

When Saint Thomas went to Kerala, India, he had no NTBible with him nor the ones who followed him there.

He had as a member here suggests, Gospel of Jesus and Torah, with him and that was sufficient for him and those who followed him.

So, I don’t have to essentially open an NTBible and to read it.

I love Jesus and Mary

Thanks
 
Hi

I appreciate the contents of your post.

I have, however, to point out a fallacy in your above quote.

Jesus never read the NTBible; so it is not that significant to read it.

When Saint Thomas went to Kerala, India, he had no NTBible with him nor the ones who followed him there.

He had as a member here suggests, Gospel of Jesus and Torah, with him and that was sufficient for him and those who followed him.

So, I don’t have to essentially open an NTBible and to read it.

I love Jesus and Mary

Thanks
Would he have had selected books out of the LXX?
 
Hi

I never said that Jesus is the only perfect man. I think I wrote in some thread Jesus is a perfect man among many perfect men. A perfect man is who is acknowledged by God Allah YHWH to be a perfect man. Such persons are called Messengers of God Allah YHWH, so in that sense there are about 124000 perfect men whom God Allah YHWH selected as a Model for their people at differnt places and times in human history. So Jesus of Quran who was a truthful servant of God Allah YHWH was definitely a perfect man; no doubt about it and I love him.

As soon as the Catholics add an absolute attribute of divinity in Jesus; to that extent he loses the perfectness of a human being.

As I wrote earlier; man is apt to err sometimes so that he is humble and has humility; this is an attribute of a human, when you add an attribute which truly belogs to GodAllahYHWH ie Jesus never erred, a lofty attribut, then on one hand he does not become a divine just because you say so, on the other hand you make him imperfect man in your imagination.

That is why I said let Jesus remain a perfect man at least. Now it is upto you, if you correct your imagination for not; no compulsion.

I love Jesus a perfect man as were Buddha and Krishna perfect men.

Thanks
Ok, I just read your profile.
No wonder you do not know who Jesus is.

Jesus is called The Prophet.
The Messiah
The Christ
The Savior
The Annointed
The High Priest
The Son of Man
The Son of God
The Word of God
The Lamb of God
The Prince of Peace
The Holy One

The list is infinite.
Suffice to say - if you were allowed to actually read the Bible which was produced thousands of years before Mohammad - you would see how polar opposite Islam is to what Jesus preached.

He is perfect because He is God - because He is sinless.
Had you ever read the Bible - Genesis prophecies to Him.
Furthermore; the Woman [Mary the Virgin Mother] and her Seed would have enmity to the serpent.
MEANING: A complete seperation … and satan is sin, so Jesus being God is sinless.

And well, now that I know from which end of the spectrum you are debating from, i dont think we have the time necessary to go thru all of this.

So find a Bible and read it. Then ask questions.

Until then, keep in mind St John said ‘The Word was with God, and is God, and the Word was made flesh.’
 
Hi

What is this LXX, please?

Thanks
The Bible (particularily the Old Testiment) is a collection of book. 500 to about 250 years before Christ a collection of Jewish scriptures and literature was translated into Greek. According to legend the Ptolimaic King requested 72 rabbis to translate the Jewish texts in to Greek. These writings were compiled and known as the seventy or Septuigent in Greek or in the Latin numerical system LXX. These books contain what Catholics call the Deuterocanonical books and most protestants follow Jeromes lead and call it the Apocrypha (hidden).
 
Ok, I just read your profile.
No wonder you do not know who Jesus is.

Jesus is called The Prophet. Agreed.The Messiah Agreed.
The Christ Agreed (?)
The Savior In a sense, Okay.The Annointed Agreed.
The High Priest Agreed.
The Son of Man Definitely. Agreed.
The Son of God Symbolically or spiritually, Yes.
The Word of God Agreed.
The Lamb of God Not understood unless metaphorically…
The Prince of Peace Yes, okay. But jesus denied that he had come to make peace in the land.
The Holy One Yes. But Not the only holy one.

The list is infinite.
Suffice to say - if you were allowed to actually read the Bible which was produced thousands of years before Mohammad - you would see how polar opposite Islam is to what Jesus preached.

He is perfect because He is God - because He is sinless. Jesus is not God. He is a man of God.Had you ever read the Bible - Genesis prophecies to Him.
Furthermore; the Woman [Mary the Virgin Mother] and her Seed would have enmity to the serpent.
MEANING: A complete seperation … and satan is sin, so Jesus being God is sinless.

And well, now that I know from which end of the spectrum you are debating from, i dont think we have the time necessary to go thru all of this.

So find a Bible and read it. Then ask questions.

Until then, keep in mind St John said ‘The Word was with God, and is God, and the Word was made flesh.’
I have replied to just a few of your quotes. I hope it helps to clear me of any sin.
 
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=4745582&postcount=42
A gentle correction on what is necessary to be a Christian

Hi

The above does not represent views of all the non-Catholics. I love Jesus and his true teachings but I don’t believe that Jesus was ever a god who became man. Jesus had no explicit claim to it except some obscure statements narrated by others who misunderstood him. This is my sincere opinion, however, no disrespect is intended to anybody’s faith or creed.

I love Jesus and Krishna

Thanks
No way that Jesus said “Hey you guys, I am God and you must worship me!!!” It would be either that His mission was cut short or He made the sun rose from the West to do so. In both ways, they were not the will of God. Jesus said that faith does grow. Faith cannot be big within human instantly. You are welcome to believe that Jesus is not God. But, if you follow and do what Jesus teach (as a sign that you love Him), then you are not far from the Kingdom of God.
 
No way that Jesus said “Hey you guys, I am God and you must worship me!!!” It would be either that His mission was cut short or He made the sun rose from the West to do so. In both ways, they were not the will of God. Jesus said that faith does grow. Faith cannot be big within human instantly. You are welcome to believe that Jesus is not God. But, if you follow and do what Jesus teach (as a sign that you love Him), then you are not far from the Kingdom of God.
Wonderful.

Just look at the bolded word. God wants us to love him because we choose to, not because we HAVE to. Jesus wants us to accept him as God because we trust in him, not because of fear or force.
 
No way that Jesus said “Hey you guys, I am God and you must worship me!!!” It would be either that His mission was cut short or He made the sun rose from the West to do so. In both ways, they were not the will of God. Jesus said that faith does grow. Faith cannot be big within human instantly. You are welcome to believe that Jesus is not God. But, if you follow and do what Jesus teach (as a sign that you love Him), then you are not far from the Kingdom of God.
swariffin, if you do as the Jesus did or if you live as Jesus lived, you will be better off. He prayed to his God. You please also do the same.
 
If we all did as Jesus told us to, we would all be better off.

And none of us would be Muslim
 
Grace & Peace!

Paarsurrey, I think the most basic issue here is that you do not understand Christianity. To understand the claims the Church makes regarding her Lord, you must make an effort to understand the terms and the concepts that she uses to understand those very same claims.

Now, it’s clear that you view Jesus through the lens of Islam. Given that you belong to a Muslim sect, that’s not surprising! But you cannot possibly claim to understand the Jesus of the Church by insisting that the Jesus of the Church is the Jesus of Islam. Furthermore, you will not be able to convince a Christian believer that the Jesus of Islam is the True Christ based on the work of Muslim exegetes, religious syncretists, or New Age conspiracy theorists. What is lacking in the above authors is the mind of the Church. They cannot properly discuss the Church’s Lord and Lover because they are not familiar with the Church.

I understand that you are interested in sharing your faith. I understand you are interested in sharing your love of Jesus. Both things are commendable. But by coming here and making the claims you make, given your sources, and given your lack of understanding of Catholic theology, you are like a passer-by who sees a man talking to a woman and then tells the man’s brother’s wife that her husband is having an affair. It just doesn’t make sense in context.
As soon as the Catholics add an absolute attribute of divinity in Jesus; to that extent he loses the perfectness of a human being.
What you need to understand here are the fundamentals of the theology surrounding the Trinity. You must understand the difference between Hypostasis (Person) and Ousia (Substance/Nature). Nature, Three Persons. Not three gods, but one God. Not one person, but three Persons. The economy of the Trinity is a reflection of what God has revealed himself to be–Love. God Himself is a communion of Love.

When the Church says that Jesus is God and Man, she understands that the Person of the Son assumed the Nature of Humanity. Jesus was not a god person and a human person in a human body. Jesus was not a divinized person. Jesus was the Very Son of God in two Natures–God and Man. True God as regards his divinity, True Man as regards his humanity. One Person. The assumption of humanity by the Son of God is part of a great act of love–God assumes into his divinity our humanity. In the person of Jesus, Heaven and Earth are wed. When Jesus suffers on the Cross for us, he suffers the result of human sin. By his death and resurrection, he makes our human death into a birth into new life. By his ascension, he raises our humanity into the very heights of heaven. If he was not fully human, we could not be fully saved. If he was not fully God, he could not fully save us. But in him we see the destiny of humanity–what he is, we shall be. Or as Maximos the Confessor, I believe, writes (and I may b paraphrasing), “What God is by nature, we shall be by grace.” This is the mystery of theosis displayed to us by Jesus. The unfolding of this mystery’s process is moreover demonstarted to us in Mary.
As I wrote earlier; man is apt to err sometimes so that he is humble and has humility; this is an attribute of a human, when you add an attribute which truly belogs to GodAllahYHWH ie Jesus never erred, a lofty attribut, then on one hand he does not become a divine just because you say so, on the other hand you make him imperfect man in your imagination.
Sharing our nature, the Son of God experienced all of our own weaknesses. But being God, he did not fall prey to them. When Adam was made, he was perfect. His fall introduced into human nature the stain of sin which is alien to his nature. By becoming human, the Son of God restores human nature to its original fullness. His human will, so wayward in us, was perfectly aligned with his Divine will.

Part of the essence of the Christian mystery is that God wishes to be in relationship with us, He wishes us to be one with him. This oneness cannot be accomplished through transforming our human nature into God’s nature. That would destroy us. It cannot be accomplished by the extinguishing of who we are in the fire of God’s love–that is truly death, we could not survive it. What it means is that God graciously comes to us in love by marrying to himself our humanity in the Incarnation of Jesus. Through Jesus, we have access to God’s own Divine Life of Love. Love requires Lover and the Beloved. We are God’s Beloved. And He comes to us as we are so that we may be as He is. If you do not understand this Mystery of Love, you do not understand Jesus or the Incarnation and it is fruitless to speculate on it.

Under the Mercy,
Mark

All is grace and mercy. Deo Gratias!
 
What you need to understand here are the fundamentals of the theology surrounding the Trinity.
Hi

Jesus’ ministry was for the guidance of the people. He never mentioned any Trinity himself, in my opinion. If he ever mentioned kindly quote from him.

It must have been mentioned by Paul to negate Jesus simple teachings understandable by the common people. Kindly also mention use of the word “mystery” by Jesus himself.

I love Jesus

Thanks
 
Hi

Jesus’ ministry was for the guidance of the people. He never mentioned any Trinity himself, in my opinion. If he ever mentioned kindly quote from him.

It must have been mentioned by Paul to negate Jesus simple teachings understandable by the common people. Kindly also mention use of the word “mystery” by Jesus himself.

I love Jesus

Thanks
Mat 29:19, and Matthew is not Paul. Why would you care that Jesus ever mentioned “mistery”? To Him nothing is misterious.
 
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