I believe predestination means . .

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**"I believe predestination means . . .

God created Adam.

He created a garden for Adam to live in.

He also looked down the corridors of time and foreknew everyone that would be a descendent of Adam.

Not just blood relatives, but spiritual brothers and sisters.

Of that God selected family, God gave them rules to live by.

Follow the rules, the family member is welcomed within the spiritual household to live a peaceful and tranquil life.

That means, the family member is commanded to study the inspired word of God that is given to him\her in the form of the Holy Bible.

While God instructs the believer within the boundaries of the spiritual household, the believer begins to change. His old sinful life begins to die and he starts to come alive in a new body that is Christ.

That is a continual process that happens daily and takes a lifetime to accomplish.

Also, the family member is commanded to help those baby believers that are in need. "**
 
tabcom said:
**"I believe predestination means . . .

God created Adam.

He created a garden for Adam to live in.

He also looked down the corridors of time and foreknew everyone that would be a descendent of Adam.

Not just blood relatives, but spiritual brothers and sisters.

Of that God selected family, God gave them rules to live by.

Follow the rules, the family member is welcomed within the spiritual household to live a peaceful and tranquil life.

That means, the family member is commanded to study the inspired word of God that is given to him\her in the form of the Holy Bible.

While God instructs the believer within the boundaries of the spiritual household, the believer begins to change. His old sinful life begins to die and he starts to come alive in a new body that is Christ.

That is a continual process that happens daily and takes a lifetime to accomplish.

Also, the family member is commanded to help those baby believers that are in need. "**
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There was another thread some time back on this and the words you use look familiar. Are you the ex-catholic who left the Church because you said there was no bible study? Are you the one who joined a church run by some pastor who thinks he can interpret the bible better than everyone in history?
 
interesting anaology. tell me more of what you believe?
 
thistle said:
. Are you the ex-catholic who left the Church because you said there was no bible study?
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**Yes, I am. That was back in July. Since then, my wife and I bought a house and have moved. We are settled in now. I don’t know why my previous username and history was deleted from the system.

(Edited for relevence and charity)
**
 
MyPhilomena said:
interesting anaology. tell me more of what you believe?
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**
God extends a box of chocolates to the little ones that He chooses and says, “you are free to choose from this box of chocolates any piece that you like, but do not choose from that box over there that I have on the shelve”. Then God tells satan, “go and persuade my choosen to pick a chocolate from the box on the shelve, I have a very important lesson to teach my little ones.” Satan, under orders from God, proceeds to sudduce the little one . . . .**
 
hello friend,

God did not order satan to tempt adam and eve. where in Scripture does it state that He ordered or told satan to tempt adam and eve?
 
See this:

The story of the creation and fall of man is a true one, even if not written entirely according to modern literary techniques. The Catechism states, “The account of the fall in Genesis 3 uses figurative language, but affirms a primeval event, a deed that took place at the beginning of the history of man. Revelation gives us the certainty of faith that the whole of human history is marked by the original fault freely committed by our first parents”

catholic.com/library/Adam_Eve_and_Evolution.asp

Justin Martyr

"For as Adam was told that in the day he ate of the tree he would die,
catholic.com/library/Creation_and_Genesis.asp

“But by the envy of the devil death came into the world”.

newadvent.org/cathen/11312a.htm

Adam by his fault transmitted to us not only death but also sin, “for as by the disobedience of one man many * were made sinners” (Romans 5:19).
newadvent.org/cathen/11312a.htm

Eve is tempted by the serpent, and they both partake of the forbidden fruit.
newadvent.org/cathen/01129a.htm

For Adam was first formed; then Eve. And Adam was not seduced; but the woman being seduced, was in the transgression.
newadvent.org/cathen/01129a.htm

No where in the Bible does it state that God told satan to go and tempt them, if so, point it out please, and show us the Scripture.*
 
MyPhilomena said:
God did not order satan to tempt adam and eve. where in Scripture does it state that He ordered or told satan to tempt adam and eve?
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**God made the serpent (Gen 3:1) who is Satan (Rev 20:2) for the purpose of deceive Eve (2 Cor 11:3).

Gen 3:1
Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made.

Re 20:2 -
And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan

2Co 11:3
But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity {of devotion} to Christ.

**
 
**Did not God instruct Satan to torment Job?

Job 1:12 - Then the LORD said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your power, only do not put forth your hand on him.” So Satan departed from the presence of the LORD. **
 
**Amos 3:6 - If evil befalls a city, has not the LORD caused it? **
 
tabcom said:
**God made the serpent (Gen 3:1) who is Satan (Rev 20:2) for the purpose of deceive Eve (2 Cor 11:3).

you grouped 3 scriptures together to point out your statement?
you cannot group 3 together to make a point that is not true. each scripture reads differently:

satan made himself the devil, God did not make satan. satan turned evil on his own.

2 Cor 11:3 states that the devil seduced Eve. but the devil used the serpent to decieve her, God had no hand in creating the devil. you are mistaken. your saying that God told the devil to seduce Eve, again, i ask you, where does it state that God told the devil to go seduce her? where??**
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tabcom said:
Yes, I am. That was back in July. Since then, my wife and I bought a house and have moved. We are settled in now. I don’t know why my previous username and history was deleted from the system.
(Edited for relevence and charity)
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(Edited for relevence) I can’t remember your exact words but they were something to the effect that your pastor is an old man with 50 years of bible study/interpretation and that you accept only his interpretations and you say all the best theological minds of the past 2000 years are wrong and your pastor is right.
Is that more or less the gist of it?
 
MyPhilomena said:
you grouped 3 scriptures together to point out your statement?
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**
I was attempting to draw a simple algebraic equation:

God made the serpent (Gen 3:1). Is not this statement true?

serpent = devil = satan.(Re 20:2). Is not this statement true?

God creates evil (Amos 3:6). Is not this statement true?

God instructs Satan to cause torment. (Job 1:12). Is not this statement true?

the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness. (2 Cor 11:2). Is not this statement true?

If one believes the Holy Scriptures is true, then my simple algebra is correct.**
MyPhilomena said:
satan made himself the devil, God did not make satan. satan turned evil on his own.
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If you would be so kind as to provide Scripture to support this statement, we can continue this discussion.
 
tabcom said:
**Did not God instruct Satan to torment Job?

Job 1:12 - Then the LORD said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your power, only do not put forth your hand on him.” So Satan departed from the presence of the LORD. **
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again, your misinterpreting what occured. re read the account of job. what does it actually state?

Read this: Now on an certain day, when the sons of God came to stand before the Lord, Satan also was present among them.

And the Lord said to him: Whence comest thou? And he answered and said: I have gone round about the earth, and walked through it.

And the Lord said to him: Hast thou considered my servent Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a simple and upright man, and fearing God and avoiding evil? ( Job 1: 6-8 )

satan said to God, Doth Job fear God in vain? ( Job 1: 9 )

he goes on to state: Hast not thou made a fence for him, and his house, and all his substance round about: blessed the works of his hands, and his possession hath increased on the earth?

But stretch forth thy hand a little, and touch all that he hath: and see if he blesseth thee not to thy face. ( Job 1: 10-11 )

Then see the reply: Then the Lord said to Satan: Behold, all that he hath is in thy hand; only put not forth thy hand upon his person. and Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord. ( Job 1: 12 )

what does this account tell you? tell me, what is it talking about?
 
God creates evil (Amos 3:6). Is not this statement true?
-Quote

Um, no, you need to reread that statement. If evil befalls a city, has not the Lord caused it? It is not stating anything about God creating evil. It says God may use evil to punish. It is abhorrent to say that God created evil, for that means that God would be at least a little bit evil.

A lone Raven
 
thistle said:
I can’t remember your exact words but . . .
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**Regarding your faulty memory as to your opinion as to who my pastor is, I have no comment.

The name of this thread is "I believe predestination means . . . " If you would like to stay on topic, I will reply accordingly.

**
 
**Lone Raven . . .

Don’t like Amos 3:6?

How about Job 42:12: They condoled with him (Job) and comforted him for all the evil which the Lord had brought upon him.

Or how about Isa 45:7: I form the light, and create the darkness, I make well-being and create evil; I, the Lord, do all these things.

I’ll include Lam 3:37-38 for you to consider:

37
Who commands so that it comes to pass, except the Lord ordains it;
38
Except it proceeds from the mouth of the Most High, whether the thing be good or bad!

Why did God create evil? Because it pleases him (Eccl. 8:3).**
 
Take a look at what Jesus said about the devil in John 8:44

“He was a murderer from the beginning: and he stood not in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is liar, and the father thereof.”
 
tabcom said:
**Lone Raven . . .

Don’t like Amos 3:6?

How about Job 42:12: They condoled with him (Job) and comforted him for all the evil which the Lord had brought upon him".

Wrong . Job 42: 12 states:

And the Lord blessed the latter end of Job more than his beginning. And he had fourteen thousand sheep, and six thousand camels, and a thousand yoke of oxen, and a thousand she-asses.**
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