I can’t find evidence of anti-communism in the Bible?

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Curious11 said:
Well I disagree. I don’t think there’s anything in then Bible that opposes communism per se.
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Could you please tell me why you think the Bible would say anything about communism? The Bible doesn’t say anything about cars, airplanes, drunk driving, etc.

Communism was invented in the 1800s by Karl Marx. So of course it doesn’t “oppose communism per se.”

It is NOT the view of orthodox, historically Christianity that the Bible is the SOLE Word of God. That is simply the Protestant view.

Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Assyrian Christians, and all other ancient forms of Christianity (plus the Jews) all believe that there is also the ORAL World of God which has not been written and has been handed down over the entries. We apostolic Christians call this Sacred Tradition.

Communism teaches that we should place the temporal society/state above everything else. That the Good of the State outweights everything.

Christians believe that (1) God is above everything else and then (2) the FAMILY comes before everything else.

So I have a duty to God, my Family, my community, and then my country. Communism removes God from the list, and then flips it so country comes first, then community, then family (and God is last in countries where worship is not outlawed).

This is just one reason why Communism isn’t valid for orthodox Christianity.

God bless
 
phil19034 said:
Communism was invented in the 1800s by Karl Marx. So of course it doesn’t “oppose communism per se.”
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Wrong. Common ownership of the means of production has always existed as a concept. Paleolithic times, which is the majority of human history by the way, were characterized by primitive communism. Marx formulated Marxism, a type of communism, but not the only type.
phil19034 said:
It is NOT the view of orthodox, historically Christianity that the Bible is the SOLE Word of God. That is simply the Protestant view.
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Yes but if all Catholics have to back themselves up on this is Pope Encyclicals, it makes me wonder whether the theological basis of Catholic anti-communism is sound and has strong foundations. How can I know it doesn’t oppose communsim for materialistic reasons, i.e because it fears losing its wealth and properties, or for personal political convictions?
phil19034 said:
Communism teaches that we should place the temporal society/state above everything else. That the Good of the State outweights everything.
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The Soviet Union was like that, but Marx defended the withering away of the state and an eventual stateless, classless society. Communsim is an economic system, it doesn’t necessarily have to be anti-religion and anti-spirituality. Marxism was conceived that way, but there are alternate versions of non-atheist Marxism and non-Marxist communism that is not against religion, like Thomas More’s Utopia.
phil19034 said:
Christians believe that (1) God is above everything else and then (2) the FAMILY comes before everything else.
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I fail to see why that automatically excludes the possibility of common ownership of the means of production.
phil19034 said:
So I have a duty to God, my Family, my community, and then my country. Communism removes God from the list, and then flips it so country comes first, then community, then family (and God is last in countries where worship is not outlawed)
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You do realize there are capitalist atheists right? They do the same thing with God, it’s called freedom of religion and thought.
 
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Curious11 said:
I fail to see why that automatically excludes the possibility of common ownership of the means of production.
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Common ownership isn’t a problem. A very catholic economic system is called Distributism, that offers common ownership.

You can look it up on Wikipedia
 
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Curious11 said:
You do realize there are capitalist atheists right? They do the same thing with God, it’s called freedom of religion and thought.
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Name me a Communist society that believes in freedom of religion and thought.
 
Distributism is a private property system. It doesn’t abolish private property, it abolishes capital accumulation by spreading the ownership of the means of production equally among the population. That’s not common ownership
 
Kibbutz, maybe the liberation theology countries? I’m not too sure about the last one
 
Common ownership is what communism is. Nothing more. Communism does not imply atheism, genocide or totalitarianism. If a communist country has those features, you have to specify it, it’s not implied just by calling it “communist”
 
Curious11 said:
Common ownership is what communism is. Nothing more. Communism does not imply atheism, genocide or totalitarianism. If a communist country has those features, you have to specify it, it’s not implied just by calling it “communist”
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Except that it is implied…
 
I propose we agree to disagree. If we can’t agree on this then this discussion ceases to be productive
 
Curious11 said:
Nope. Ever heard of liberation theology? There’s such a thing as Christian communism
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I’m not sure if this is your endorsement of it or disgust.

Liberation Theology is a perversion of the faith because it smears the spiritual works of mercy and puts the State above God.

Communism is intrinsically evil, as is socialism because it relies on theft and immorality, and it has contradict Christianity over and over again. This is why in Rerum Noverum and so many other encyclicals, Communism is marked as reason to excommunicate.
 
I’d answer, but it would involve repeating myself for the 100th time
 
Curious11 said:
I’d answer, but it would involve repeating myself for the 100th time
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Fair enough, I saw you responded a bunch of times. Nonetheless, this is a very wrong assessment of what Communism is. People can claim all it is is merely common ownership, but 1) by what means, and 2) at what price?

Every form of communism has been nothing but violent attempt to reduce people. This is why the death tolls are so much higher than the Nazis. This is also why Pope Leo XIII counted it as intrinsically evil, because he also mentioned the divinity behind private ownership, especially since what is privately owned can be offered freely, which is based on charity and other virtues.

“Yes, but MY version of communism will be better.”

Not to be that guy, but there was a reason why my family has been thrilled to get out of Soviet Russia and what they did to their neighbors.
 
I’m not praising Soviet Russia or even communism. But an assertion like “every duck I’ve encountered is white” doesn’t prove there are no other types of ducks
 
Curious11 said:
I’m not praising Soviet Russia or even communism. But an assertion like “every duck I’ve encountered is white” doesn’t prove there are no other types of ducks
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That’s also true. If we were to pretend that Communism has never ever been attempted before, it would still come out as immoral because of the means to uphold it. Private ownership is in line with morality because nothing can be freely given if it is already forced. It also might mean slavery as the means of production would be forced despite those that have no intention of building/serving whatever it is that they are doing.
 
Then under your definition a poor person cannot be charitable because they’re destitute. Charity isnt always monetary. Communism doesn’t exclude charity
 
Curious11 said:
Then under your definition a poor person cannot be charitable because they’re destitute. Charity isnt always monetary. Communism doesn’t exclude charity
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That is not how I defined it, and charity is not strictly monetary – this is why charity extends to our labor and efforts. But communism intervenes on both, by definition. And not just that. I don’t know if you have actually read the Communist Manifesto or the works of Trotsky, but they are very direct in rising up the State, and it’s always based on hatred for those who do have.
 
Curious11 said:
Marxism is not the only type of communism
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I know that there were other philosophers like Engels who inspired Marx and Trotsky, but not one version of it has even aligned itself with Christianity because by definition, it cannot. This is why the Church has excommunicated Communists and Socialists. They didn’t do it blindly guessing that it was wrong.
 
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