I can no longer in good conscience identify as Catholic. It's been fun

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StudentMI said:
Science, doctrinal changes, inconsistencies in teaching, philosophy, all these played a part
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Interestingly enough, the Church teaches that people should follow their conscience in matters of morality. And that they should be free to practice the religion of their choice.

That being said, I’m not so surprised that people who are trying to be faithful Catholics tend to not discuss the issues they have with Catholicism. Maybe they are afraid that talking about their doubts will cause them to falter.

I think that too many converts assume that Catholicism is a static religion full of rules and obligations that don’t change. So when something does change it’s like they can’t deal with it. I’ve always seen Catholicism as having an intellectual aspect to it that is separated from, and not required for, salvation. Clerics argue over interpretations and Councils clarify doctrine. Blah blah blah.

Here’s what matters - Did you help your “neighbor” or “family” today? Did you pray today? The Church has an important role also…to keep things organized, and to facilitate a successful faith for individuals. But one cannot rely solely on the Church for their faith and salvation.
 
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1Lord1Faith said:
I think that too many converts assume that Catholicism is a static religion full of rules and obligations that don’t change. So when something does change it’s like they can’t deal with it. I’ve always seen Catholicism as having an intellectual aspect to it that is separated from, and not required for, salvation. Clerics argue over interpretations and Councils clarify doctrine. Blah blah blah.

Here’s what matters - Did you help your “neighbor” or “family” today? Did you pray today? The Church has an important role also…to keep things organized, and to facilitate a successful faith for individuals. But one cannot rely solely on the Church for their faith and salvation.
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I’d be cautious about the phrasing of this.

Yes, love is paramount.

But truth does matter. And the Catholic Church claims to have the fullness of truth.

It’s genuinely important, because of love and the care of souls, to never let someone get tricked into thinking that to be Catholic they have to believe an actual, impossible, contradiction.

God made us rational creatures. Our minds are good. We are meant to be able to look around and spot the difference between trustworthy consistency and untrustworthy inconsistency.

Mormonism, Islam… even atheists would say (typically) that they value helping “neighbor” and “family”. But it matters that we be Catholic. Catholicism is true.

And it’s trusting that Catholicism is true that helps us hold fast to particular truths about what love looks like: e.g. love requires loving both mother and child, not killing a child to make things more convenient for the mother.

When one begins to doubt the truth of Catholicism, so much unravels that yes, in the end, the capacity to love well takes a hit as well.

Catholicism isn’t necessarily a “static religion”, as you put it. We’re a tree growing from a seed. But always growing into a tree, not a cow. And God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. Suggesting that Catholic teaching about God could fundamentally change between yesterday, today, and tomorrow, and Catholicism still be worth trusting…?

I think that’s exactly the kind of (accidental, implicit) rhetoric that can (accidentally) shake certain people away, and discourage them from trusting the Church.

And incidentally at this point I’d advise everyone to remember that no one here on CAF can formally ‘speak for the Church’ here. She speaks for Herself. If we want to know what she teaches, sure it’d be ideal if we could trust that to be accurately communicated by strangers in person or online… but God has allowed us to live in the age of the Internet and long-distance shipping, and we can seek out and review official Church documents online or in print if we want.

May none of us allow ourselves to be shaken away by anything masquerading as the Church that isn’t definitely Her.
 
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So glad to see you posting again, (name removed by moderator).
This means you survived and made it through Hurricane Laura. 👍

Praise God from whom all blessings flow. 🙏
 
StudentMI said:
My doubts have been building over a long period over the past couple years. There was a spike when I met a new priest at our parish. Things seemed to be settling nicely.

But I’ve decided, after much thought, I can no longer identify as a Catholic. I suppose my recent baptism and confirmation were more a cry for help to God than anything. To be honest I did a lot of praying that my faith would return after those sacraments. I’m sorry to say it never did.

I’m not going to go too much into why I’ve decided this. Science, doctrinal changes, inconsistencies in teaching, philosophy, all these played a part. Suffice it to say I don’t believe in the Catholic faith anymore.

It’s been fun, everyone. I’m undecided if I’ll continue posting. I doubt it. See ya.
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I hope you return someday brother. We love you.

Peace.
 
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This honestly breaks my heart to read. I always enjoyed reading your posts and always took you for a solid Catholic.

We all struggle with teachings and scandals in the Church, & lots of people have unfortunately left because of it.

The thing I keep telling myself (and others) is that you don’t abandon Jesus because of Judas. Jesus picked Judas as one of His 12, knowing full well what Judas would do.

So think about this: in Jesus’s lifetime, 8% of his bishops (the 12 Apostles) were corrupt, faithless, and un-Christlike.

I personally think the reason Jesus choose Judas as one of his twelve is to show us that at least 8% of the clergy will directly work against Christ.

While another 83% (all be St. John) abandoned Him at the Cross. Jesus knew this would happen too. I think He picked them to show us that at least 92% of the clergy will either be completely anti-Christ (the 8% like Judas) or will fail God and the Church from time to time (the 10 who abandoned Christ when on the Cross).

To me, Jesus showed us flaws would all see with our clergy throughout history.

Due to man’s flawed nature, we do have some inconsistencies in discipline, but there are no doctrinal changes.

I wish I could have a purpose driven cup of coffee with you (like Patrick Madrid often says).

God Bless and Godspeed on your faith journey. I pray you don’t become a stranger here.
 
When Our Lady appeared in 1917 in Fatima, she asked for prayers for the conversion of sinners and peace in this world. Look at how brutal that century was!

We really need people today who will cooperate with God, for these days are darker than in 1917. I am sad you will not be one of them. I know people who have spent decades praying for this intention and have gone to their reward. I hope when the end of your life comes, you will have this ‘work’ in your hands to give as a reply for your life. Nothing is more pressing today, the salvation of souls and our effort to bring them into grace. This is the grace I wish for you, that you participate in grace to impact the world for good. This is why we’re here. My that flame in your heart be turned up higher!
 
StudentMI said:
But I’ve decided, after much thought, I can no longer identify as a Catholic.
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StudentMI said:
Suffice it to say I don’t believe in the Catholic faith anymore.
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I am so sorry to hear this 😱
As others have noted, I confess this comes as a bit of a surprise…

…from your posts (many of which I have agreed with and enjoyed) you seemed to have a very solid faith…

…I am very saddened to hear this news…

…we all have struggles on our journey home, crosses to bear, I pray that the Holy Spirit illumines your path.
 
I am saddened to hear this from you. While the exchanges we have had were brief, I valued them for your measured thoughtfulness and grounded intelligence, and so did I cherish the some of the other posts of yours that provoked in me further thought and reading. Even when I had more I’d have liked to say, I held back only because I couldn’t give you a deserving response. Whatever you do next, never stop looking, never stop reading, never stop asking, never stop listening. Truth and wisdom come to those who seek them with fervent love and an open heart.
“[W]hatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is gracious, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things” (Phillippians 4:8).
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StudentMI said:
Science, doctrinal changes, inconsistencies in teaching, philosophy, all these played a part
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It sounds like the Internet is the culprit. The problem is that people spend more time reading the Internet and not their Bible. The Parable of the Sower says it all:

 
Montrose said:
If you are a baptised Catholic you will remain a Catholic forever.
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Just as a question. There was a report of a Catholic priest here who converted to Greek Orthodox. He went through their conversion process. The Roman Catholic bishop announced that he was excommunicated. Would you say that he is both Catholic and Greek Orthodox as he is officially considered to be Greek Orthodox by the Greek Orthodox church?
 
I have to say that apart from wanting the clergy to stay out of serious sin so they don’t hurt others as well as themselves, I couldn’t care less what the clergy is or isn’t doing. I’m not on the Catholic Jesus bus because of them and to be honest I’ve been watching a good many of them (though not all) bumble stuff my whole life and thinking I could have done a better job if only I were allowed to sign up (which may be pride on my part, although I’d like to think I wouldnt have sexually abused people or stolen the church collection to spend on illicit good times).

I need Jesus, I’m one of those widows and orphans he always went on about. Jesus seems to actually want me around unlike about 80 percent of the “friends” I ever had, and I know I’ve been just as lousy of a “friend” to some other people as well as to Jesus himself. I’m not going to give up my friend the Real Jesus in the Real Presence because the 1 millionth clergyman put his foot in it again. And if some atheist wants to put me down for my faith, I’ve been getting put down for stuff my whole life and my great-grands had to leave their own home country because they were Catholics so I can handle it.
 
Without much to go on to perhaps help you, I can simply ask why is it, you became Catholic in the first place?

One beautiful thing I’ve noticed is that I am Catholic because of the Eucharist and the true understanding of Sacred Scripture as taught through Sacred Tradition and the Holy Fathers of old.

No human ever made me see the Light. No human ever caused the “tree of faith” to grow (while some helped sow seeds and water it). God Himself is the One Whom led me here. God Himself keeps me here as there is no other place on earth where one can find the fullness of the words of Eternal Life. Bits a pieces of it are scattered about all over, but it’s main store house is here in the Catholic Faith.

We live in very interesting times. Perhaps even in the time of pre-labor pain contractions. If you ever need an encouraging voice, I hope you know that there are several people on this forum (myself included) who would be happy to help take some of the burden of your cross from you.

May the Grace and Peace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you, now and always.
 
So sad to read this. I’m praying for you this moment. Not going to preach to you, or at you, or try to convince you otherwise. Will simply pray now and continue, as this has marked my heart with a sad spot.
Blessings, and peace be with you.
 
AlNg said:
Just as a question. There was a report of a Catholic priest here who converted to Greek Orthodox. He went through their conversion process. The Roman Catholic bishop announced that he was excommunicated. Would you say that he is both Catholic and Greek Orthodox as he is officially considered to be Greek Orthodox by the Greek Orthodox church?
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Saying someone is Catholic forever is not totally precise. Such a person you describe is no longer a member of the Church, since, as Vatican II defined, the Church is “an entity with visible delineation” (Lumen Gentium 9) and “the bonds which bind men to the Church in a visible way are profession of faith, the sacraments, and ecclesiastical government and communion.” (Lumen Gentium 14). As such, “only those are to be included as members of the Church who have been baptized and profess the true faith, and who have not been so unfortunate as to separate themselves from the unity of the Body, or been excluded by legitimate authority for grave faults committed.” (Pius XII, Mystici Corporis 22)

On the other hand, because baptism is indelible (as is confirmation and holy orders), a bond with the Church remains forever. Such persons always remain subject to the Church’s jurisdiction and so “re-verts” are reconciled merely with the sacrament of penance. This is what people mean when they say “once Catholic, always Catholic.”

Here’s how Ott’s Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma puts it:
Although public apostates and heretics, schismatics and excommunicati vitandi are outside the legal organisation of the Church, still their relationship to the Church is essentially different from that of the unbaptised. As the baptismal character which effects incorporation in the Church is indestructible, the baptised person, in spite of his ceasing to be a member of the Church, cannot cut himself off so completely from the Church, that every bond with the Church is dissolved.
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If I had to rely on “belief” I would probably be a confirmed agnostic. At times I “believe” in the God of the Christians. At other times I greatly doubt it. At times I “believe” that the Catholic Church was instituted by Christ; that He is the Son of God and that the Church has teaching authority. Sometimes I greatly doubt it.

But in truth I don’t take nearly as much comfort in my “belief” even when it’s strongest, as I do in my “faith” which is more akin to “trust” than it is to anything else. I think a lot of people don’t find that satisfactory. I think I would feel pretty barren if I had ever really expected total intellectual persuasion. Fact is, I never really expected to get beyond a reasonable, but faulty, level of intellectual persuasion and a whole lot of faith; faith like a little kid has in his dad and mom.
 
I’m sorry I hear that, StudentMI.

I think it wouldn’t be helpful to remember that, “ten thousand difficulties do not make one doubt.”
 
Wow… Well, I must admit that I am a bit surprised. You always seemed to have the answers to tough questions. Well if you see this…

Thanks for the charitable comments you made when I was confused about Dorothy Day. Also, you have great taste in books 😉

Whether you see this or not, I’m praying for you.
 
Maybe this is heretical, but I don’t think it is. I’m a little dubious about some of what seem to me Pope Francis’ political positions. But then, I think he’s not from the first world and I think in his world things look different. But I don’t have to agree with him when it comes to things like considering climate change due to fossil fuel use a serious threat. And I don’t. I am far more concerned with climate change brought on by desertification caused by land mismanagement, particularly in central Asia, southern Africa and northern China. And I think it can be remediated without depriving people of fuel.

But again, I don’t have to agree with his science or his politics. But I owe it to him not to complain about such things. And I don’t.

Same with capital punishment. I think it is a useful deterrent to murders of innocent people. But I oppose it as a practical matter because the Popes have, and for no other reason. I don’t have to intellectually agree with them. But I can follow them.
 
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