I can no longer in good conscience identify as Catholic. It's been fun

[Montrose]

Just as a question. There was a report of a Catholic priest here who converted to Greek Orthodox. He went through their conversion process. The Roman Catholic bishop announced that he was excommunicated. Would you say that he is both Catholic and Greek Orthodox as he is officially considered to be Greek Orthodox by the Greek Orthodox church?

Excommunication does not make a person no longer a Catholic. It simply denies them access to all Sacraments apart from Confession. It makes no makes no difference what the priest or the Orthodox call him he is still a Catholic.

 

[Anesti33]

AlNg:

Just as a question. There was a report of a Catholic priest here who converted to Greek Orthodox. He went through their conversion process. The Roman Catholic bishop announced that he was excommunicated. Would you say that he is both Catholic and Greek Orthodox as he is officially considered to be Greek Orthodox by the Greek Orthodox church?

Excommunication does not make a person no longer a Catholic. It simply denies them access to all Sacraments apart from Confession. It makes no makes no difference what the priest or the Orthodox call him he is still a Catholic.

Absolution would be withheld as well until the excommunication could be lifted. That’s real trouble, isn’t it, that while excommunicated you can’t seek forgiveness of your sins.

 

[Dan_Defender]

I’m not going to go too much into why I’ve decided this. Science

Science is limited and intellectual knowledge can only take you so far. Faith is a gift. There are mysteries which can only be known to us by Divine revelation.

 

[phil3]

https://www.amazon.com/Catholic-Church-Built-Western-Civilization/dp/1596983280

Read this book.

But I would love to hear where Science for you is an issue?

 

[Neithan]

I’m disappointed to see this, but not surprised considering some earlier posts of yours that I read. The doctrine of the faith is not always easy, to say the least. I’ll say a prayer that you find your way back home, brother. Godspeed.

By the way I echo what others on here have said: When you’re ready to engage again, please do. Challenge the faith from the side of doubt and maybe you’ll kindle it again — God Willing. Bring us all your doubts and questions, that is what Catholic Answers is for.

 

[AlNg]

It makes no makes no difference what the priest or the Orthodox call him he is still a Catholic.

Do you disagree with Pope Pius XII? “only those are to be included as members of the Church who have been baptized and profess the true faith, and who have not been so unfortunate as to separate themselves from the unity of the Body, or been excluded by legitimate authority for grave faults committed.” (Pius XII, Mystici Corporis 22)

 

[Montrose]

Absolution would be withheld as well until the excommunication could be lifted. That’s real trouble, isn’t it, that while excommunicated you can’t seek forgiveness of your sins.

It depends. Where automatic excommunion takes place this can be handled by the priest in Confession.

 

[Montrose]

Do you disagree with Pope Pius XII? “only those are to be included as members of the Church who have been baptized and profess the true faith , and who have not been so unfortunate as to separate themselves from the unity of the Body, or been excluded by legitimate authority for grave faults committed.” (Pius XII, Mystici Corporis 22)

Excommunication denies a Catholic access to the Sacraments until they repent and the excommunication is lifted. It does not throw them out of the Church.

 

[DisorientingSneeze]

I’m sad to hear it. Has 2020 not taken enough from us yet?

I trust you will continue to follow your conscience and intellect with the sincerity you always have, and I pray that it sends you back when the time is right.

 

[AlNg]

It does not throw them out of the Church.

Apparently then you disagree with Pope Pius XII who says that you have to profess the true faith in order to be included as a member of the Catholic church?

 

[Montrose]

Apparently then you disagree with Pope Pius XII who says that you have to profess the true faith in order to be included as a member of the Catholic church?

That has nothing to do with the censure of excommunication.
Excommunication is a censure which can be quickly remedied by Confession and lifted by a Pope, Bishop or Priest.
Excommunication is not a punishment.

By the way, excommunicated Catholics are still BOUND to attend Mass and BOUND to observe the Church’s laws on marriage and are still BOUND to contribute to the material needs of the Church. None of that applies to anyone who is not a Catholic.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

An excommunicated Catholic is still a Catholic. As canon lawyers have explained, the penalty of excommunication is intended to get a Catholic who’s committing some very serious sin, usually on an ongoing basis and often in the public eye so it’s a scandal, to realize the error of their ways and get right with the Church. The door is always open to people who want to return to good standing.

 

[Motherwit]

Maybe this is heretical, but I don’t think it is. I’m a little dubious about some of what seem to me Pope Francis’ political positions. But then, I think he’s not from the first world and I think in his world things look different. But I don’t have to agree with him when it comes to things like considering climate change due to fossil fuel use a serious threat. And I don’t. I am far more concerned with climate change brought on by desertification caused by land mismanagement, particularly in central Asia, southern Africa and northern China. And I think it can be remediated without depriving people of fuel.

But again, I don’t have to agree with his science or his politics. But I owe it to him not to complain about such things. And I don’t.

Same with capital punishment. I think it is a useful deterrent to murders of innocent people. But I oppose it as a practical matter because the Popes have, and for no other reason. I don’t have to intellectually agree with them. But I can follow them.

I promote a different way of being Catholic which is what I was raised with and that is take this wonderful gift of faith and follow where a Pope takes you with every confidence in the protection of the Holy Spirit. I’m sorry that StudentMI didn’t get the chance to experience faith that way but was pulled one way and the other by trying to make his knowledge of science, theology or whatever, fit with the guidance of Pope Francis.

 

[Dlee]

I’m sorry to read this. I’ve enjoyed your comments these past months.

 

[QContinuum]

. . . .

Respectfully, the discussion on proper branding is belated and tangential. Student’s reasons are his own, and perhaps he is still grappling with them. Whatever conclusions he comes to, I should hope he would have the respect of being recognized as whatever he, himself, ascribes to. Be it wandering Catholic, unbeliever, atheist, agnostic, Buddhist, pagan, Jedi, or whatever.

However, I assure other posters here that insisting that someone has no agency to determine their own religious identity is frankly a turn off to non-Catholic observers like myself. It also smacks of a kind cloying desperation whereby the Church might only hold on to many of its members through a technical appeal to entrapment by baptism.

Others will doubtlessly be indignant by this post. But even though StudentInMI and I have previously clashed, it seems rather anticlimactic that his present difficulty is doomed to be buried in these endless technicalities.

Student, if you are still following this thread, I would like to point out that I deconverted from Christianity over a year ago. I did take an extended absence from this board. However, there is no reason that you should stay away beyond your own preference, of course. You have as much right as anyone else to post here.

Best wishes on your internal journeys.

 

[Rau]

If you are a baptised Catholic you will remain a Catholic forever. There is no such thing as an ex or former Catholic - only Catholics in a state of grace and Catholics in a state of mortal sin.

Yikes. Sounds like an argument not to be baptized at all. What state(s) can non-Catholics be in?

 

[Margaret_Ann]

I second @Tommy999. I was so worried about you and everyone in Louisiana. Sending you :hugs:

 

[Rau]

I am far more concerned with climate change brought on by desertification caused by land mismanagement, particularly in central Asia, southern Africa and northern China.

Regrettably the same wrongs were committed by first world countries - though mainly quite some time in the past.

 

[AlNg]

An excommunicated Catholic is still a Catholic.

The case in point is when someone converts to Greek Orthodoxy. He no longer professes the true faith. He now professes the faith of the Greek Orthodox church.

“only those are to be included as members of the Church who have been baptized and profess the true faith…

(Pius XII, Mystici Corporis 22)

 

[GioG12]

Amen! I wish I could gives this reply of yours a million hearts .