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aidanbradypop
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Thanks for you the reply.
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z_0101
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You are most welcome.
My family came from a Bible-Baptist background so I have a good idea where you’re coming from. If I can ever be of help feel free to PM… with four kids it may be a midnight reply though
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Denise1957
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Devotions such as veneration of saints ultimately has to do with our salvation, since we Catholics don’t believe that we are automatically saved, as some Protestants do. Salvation is something we are always working on. We look to the excellent example of the saints, because they help show us the way to holiness, by the exemplary lives that they led, and also by their prayers to God on our behalf when we ask them to pray for us.
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SteveVH
Guest
They were kissing Mary, just as I still kiss the pictures of my mother and my brother, who both died several years ago. They are not kissing a piece of plaster just as I am not kissing a piece of film.
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pablope
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aidanbradypop
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I try
A Catholic lady that lives down the street mentioned it to me during a conversation. Not surebwhat family member she stated, but one of them was healed of a skin disease.
I am a believer in divine healing. I witness it all the time. Just not a fan of someone believing they were healed by God through a statue’s healing power.
I have no problem if they wish to parade. Just going by what they told me and what I saw.
I think it is wonderful that someone get healed! I hope and pray they know where is came from.
Just going by the testimony of those that believe it.
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sallybutler
Guest
What is the difference between Catholics who ask for the prayers of saints and those who are told that they will receive a blessing or a healing provided they send x dollars to a preacher? Many protestants preach that you will be healed if you make a ‘love offering’. I think those who think the prayers of a saint might be helpful are more in line with God those who think money sent to a preacher are.
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Peter_J
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[abridged
]Hi spedteacherita. I started reading this thread with interest … and I still now think it would be interesting to me to participate in it, but not necessarily healthy. There are so many representations, or whatever we might call them, of Catholicism here that sorting through them becomes extremely difficult – and I’ve been really trying not to spend inordinate amounts of time on the forum (which isn’t always easy for me
) But I want to wish you well with your investigation (I’m quite certain that you could find plenty of helpful documents, be they on EWTN’s website, or vatican.va, etc). 
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Hockeygurl
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- never have I ever knelt down in front of my grandfathers photo and prayed.
- never have I ever kissed a photo… that’s just weird.
As far as the veneration of mary goes… I previously made one poster mad… he seemed to indicate that mary deserved flowers… wouldn’t you do that for your mother?
Well… No. My mother as I expect mary is also is very practical… She would much rather me do something to help someone with that money instead of buy flowers that die in a few days. This is the LASTING gifts we can give… the ones who may inspire others to pay it forward also.
I am sorry but I think flowers are just small minded and useless.
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aidanbradypop
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A very big difference. I am actually surprised that you would compare asking the saints for prayer and the heretical theology of the Prosperity Gospel movement.
Why would one even make that comparison? It actually hurts your argument. The Prosperity Gospel movement is a very small misguided movement that happens to dominate a tv network that was established to promote the PG ideology. I hear EWTN ask for money left and right. Do they promote the same theology as TBN?
As for the last sentence, I happen to believe neither one is in line with God, but that is just my opinion.
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pianistclare
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spedteacherita
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Thank you, Peter. This is the area (saints and Mary) that bothers me the most or I cannot get it settled in my heart and head. Lots of prayer to Jesus and, as you say, checking for papers/documents written on the various Catholic sites.[abridged
Hi spedteacherita. I started reading this thread with interest … and I still now think it would be interesting to me to participate in it, but not necessarily healthy. There are so many representations, or whatever we might call them, of Catholicism here that sorting through them becomes extremely difficult – and I’ve been really trying not to spend inordinate amounts of time on the forum (which isn’t always easy for me
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SteveVH
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Good thing you’re not a guy! I tried that one many years ago and as I recall it didn’t go over real well.
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aidanbradypop
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Lol. My wife is not a flower gal but I sure hear it if I skip out on buying them lol.Good thing you’re not a guy! I tried that one many years ago and as I recall it didn’t go over real well.
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Denise1957
Guest
Just a few random thoughts. I can understand that if you were raised to believe that giving flowers is impractical, then you may not think it’s a good way to show love for someone. That’s fine. Flowers are a thing of beauty, and are pleasing to the eye, even though they don’t live for very long after they’re cut.
If you’ve ever been to a Catholic Mass, the altar may have had flowers on it.There are people who volunteer to buy and arrange the flowers for the altar.
It’s also a cultural thing. In Holland, where my step-father is from, it’s common for people to give flowers to others. In fact, my step-father buys a huge bunch of flowers for my mom every week from the farmers market in their neighborhood. In Holland, there are flower-sellers all over the place, or at least there were when I was there 35 years ago.
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Peter_J
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And I hope this won’t sound glib, but at times like this I sometimes think to myself “If I read a discussion along these lines on PAF, or whatever comparable Protestant forum, would Protestantism come off sounding too good?” I’m guessing not.
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jlhargus
Guest
One would vererate a cross by kissing, touching, bowing or anyother way one might show reference for what it represents. Christ his sacrifice and our salvation etc…
One would worship a cross when they offer sacrifice to it, considered it a god having divine powers of its own such as healing.
[Acts14:9 The same heard **Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed, 10 Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked. 11 And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men. 12 And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker. 13 Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people.]
[Acts19:11 And **God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul: 12 So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.]
[2Kgs2:14 And **he took the mantle of Elijah that fell from him, and smote the waters, and said, Where is the Lord God of Elijah? and when he also had smitten the waters, they parted hither and thither: and Elisha went over.]
[2Kgs13:20 And **Elisha died, and they buried him. And the bands of the Moabites invaded the land at the coming in of the year. 21 And it came to pass, as they were burying a man, that, behold, they spied a band of men; and they cast the man into the sepulchre of Elisha: and when the man was let down, and touched the bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood up on his feet.]
Some Christians are so graced by God that objects touched or used by them carry the grace of God to cure even after death.
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SyroMalankara
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SyroMalankara
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Some Non-Catholic posters have placed an arbitrary “line” and stated Catholics cross it. Would a non-cross wearing/displaying denomination, such as Joel Osteen’s group or Westwinds (johnvoelzblog.blogspot.com/2012/01/no-cross-at-church.html) consider this protestant/SalvationArmy songwriter a cross worshipper? After all, he sings about it as if - by golly - this piece of wood is the Lord Himself! Clingin’, cherishin’, lovin’ and all that papist behavior - he might as well kiss and kneel before it!
On a hill far away stood an old rugged cross,
The emblem of suff’ring and shame;
And I love that old cross where the Dearest and Best
For a world of lost sinners was slain.
Refrain:
So I’ll cherish the old rugged cross,
Till my trophies at last I lay down;
I will cling to the old rugged cross,
And exchange it someday for a crown.
Oh, that old rugged cross, so despised by the world,
Has a wondrous attraction for me;
For the dear Lamb of God left His glory above
To bear it to dark Calvary.
In that old rugged cross, stained with blood so divine,
A wondrous beauty I see,
For ’twas on that old cross Jesus suffered and died,
To pardon and sanctify me.
To the old rugged cross I will ever be true;
Its shame and reproach gladly bear;
Then He’ll call me someday to my home far away,
Where His glory forever I’ll share.
On a hill far away stood an old rugged cross,
The emblem of suff’ring and shame;
And I love that old cross where the Dearest and Best
For a world of lost sinners was slain.
Refrain:
So I’ll cherish the old rugged cross,
Till my trophies at last I lay down;
I will cling to the old rugged cross,
And exchange it someday for a crown.
Oh, that old rugged cross, so despised by the world,
Has a wondrous attraction for me;
For the dear Lamb of God left His glory above
To bear it to dark Calvary.
In that old rugged cross, stained with blood so divine,
A wondrous beauty I see,
For ’twas on that old cross Jesus suffered and died,
To pardon and sanctify me.
To the old rugged cross I will ever be true;
Its shame and reproach gladly bear;
Then He’ll call me someday to my home far away,
Where His glory forever I’ll share.
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SyroMalankara
Guest
Another source, our very own Catholic.com:
Relics in Early Christianity
The veneration of relics is seen explicitly as early as the account of Polycarp’s martyrdom written by the Smyrnaeans in A.D. 156. In it, the Christians describe the events following his burning at the stake: “We took up his bones, which are more valuable than precious stones and finer than refined gold, and laid them in a suitable place, where the Lord will permit us to gather ourselves together, as we are able, in gladness and joy and to celebrate the birthday of his martyrdom.”
In speaking of the veneration of relics in the early Church, the anti-Catholic historian Adolph Harnack writes, “. . . [N]o Church doctor of repute restricted it. All of them rather, even the Cappadocians, countenanced it. The numerous miracles which were wrought by bones and relics seemed to confirm their worship. The Church therefore would not give up the practice, although a violent attack was made upon it by a few cultured heathens and besides by the Manichaeans” (Harnack, History of Dogma, tr., IV, 313).
In the fourth century the great biblical scholar, Jerome, declared, “We do not worship, we do not adore, for fear that we should bow down to the creature rather than to the creator, but we venerate the relics of the martyrs in order the better to adore him whose martyrs they are” (Ad Riparium, i, P.L., XXII, 907). `
Note, von Harnack was Lutheran:en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_von_Harnack
Relics in Early Christianity
The veneration of relics is seen explicitly as early as the account of Polycarp’s martyrdom written by the Smyrnaeans in A.D. 156. In it, the Christians describe the events following his burning at the stake: “We took up his bones, which are more valuable than precious stones and finer than refined gold, and laid them in a suitable place, where the Lord will permit us to gather ourselves together, as we are able, in gladness and joy and to celebrate the birthday of his martyrdom.”
In speaking of the veneration of relics in the early Church, the anti-Catholic historian Adolph Harnack writes, “. . . [N]o Church doctor of repute restricted it. All of them rather, even the Cappadocians, countenanced it. The numerous miracles which were wrought by bones and relics seemed to confirm their worship. The Church therefore would not give up the practice, although a violent attack was made upon it by a few cultured heathens and besides by the Manichaeans” (Harnack, History of Dogma, tr., IV, 313).
In the fourth century the great biblical scholar, Jerome, declared, “We do not worship, we do not adore, for fear that we should bow down to the creature rather than to the creator, but we venerate the relics of the martyrs in order the better to adore him whose martyrs they are” (Ad Riparium, i, P.L., XXII, 907). `
Note, von Harnack was Lutheran:en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_von_Harnack
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