I can't get over the gay thing

[WilT]

I’m in a support group for men trying to overcome sexual addictions, and one of the members in the group has SSA, and he shared a similar opinion to your own. When he stopped engaging in the lifestyle for a little and really considered the affect it was having on him, and how he was feeling about himself and his life, he had no choice but to realize that he was not evenly remotely happy. He didn’t use the word miserable, but he did say that it brought him absolutely no fulfillment like he had been lead to believe it would.

He’s since gotten out of that culture, repaired his relationship with his parents (who had been supportive of -him- but firm in the declaration that they couldn’t support his choice to engage in the lifestyle), returned to the Church, and started going to COURAGE meetings. He said, quite plainly, that he has never been happier. He still struggles, of course, but his entire outlook on his life and his actions has changed.

To the OP, I understand why this is a sticking point for you. I have a handful of people I would consider to be close friends who are homosexual; all of whom are engaged in the lifestyle. I love these friends dearly, which is exactly why I am not afraid to tell them what I think of their decisions. I try to be as supportive as I can, but I also see the sort of relationships they are engaged in, and the sorts of lives they live. Each of them is ‘dating’ someone who is… significantly older than them… old enough to be their father in fact. I recognize that similar age disparities exist among heterosexual relationships, however, the invariability of it is disturbing, and according to my friends it is not an uncommon trend. About half of them are engaged in sexual activities outside of their primary relationship, and really don’t believe that there is anything wrong with it… If I did not love these friends, I wouldn’t care what they do, but since I do love them, I can’t help but be worried about them.

The fact of the matter is that God, and by extension Christ, has made it explicitly clear that homosexual actions are intrinsically evil. There is really no scriptural way around this declaration… I mean… He wiped out an entire town for it… Romans 1:26-27 (well, 18-32, but more specifically 26 and 27), make it abundantly clear that choosing to engage in homosexual activities is the result of a heart that has set itself apart form God, and turned its back on Him, who is the source of all that is good. Since we desire salvation for all people, especially those who struggle with such a burdensome cross, we simply cannot remain silent on this issue. We -must- admonish them or we are contributors to their sin, however indirectly.

You love your homosexual borers and sisters deeply, that much is evident. So do we, which is why we cannot be silent and accept that which set it’s against God.

 

[Weejee]

Sodom and Gomorrah? The sin was RAPE.

As far as sex being intended for procreation? True. You’ll find out real quick about this if you don’t use birth control and have sex.

Pray to God, and use the head and heart He gave you. Sounds like you’ve been doing so already.

 

[HelenRose]

I’m wondering if those of us who believe that sexual orientation is NOT a choice ever come to some kind off understanding with those who believe it is nothing more than a sinful choice on the part of a LGBTQ individual?

We are all born with needs and desires that can lead to sinful acts. No kind of sexual orientation is a sin. The sexual orientation toward pedophilia is not a sin either.

 

[WilT]

We are all born with needs and desires that can lead to sinful acts. No kind of sexual orientation is a sin. The sexual orientation toward pedophilia is not a sin either.

Huh! Yes, sexual orientation towards pedophilia is a sin. Jesus says even if a man desires a person with his or her eyes they have committed sin.

 

[Havard]

Oh, dear.

Comparing two men/two women in a romantic relationship to incest and mass murder by a psycho??!

Curious to see the comments after this one…

.

Applying a principle to demonstrate how it can fail isn’t the same thing as a comparison.

 

[SquallLeonheart]

To the OP, you don’t have to “get over” the gay thing.

Being Gay is not a sin. People do NOT choose to be Gay. We all have friends and family members who are gay and they should have the right to be married just as any 2 straight people can. The world needs more love, and more peace now than ever. You can’t choose who you fall in love with.

 

[marymary1975]

Marymary1975- your last paragraph concerning the dogma that a couple it’s not able to marry if one is impotent should almost be the first line of offence against the marriage requirements found in Church teachings. Maybe a thousand years ago that piece of rule was justifiable since marriage was often used for economic reasons by the families involved. In the last 150 years, marriage has become more romantic in nature than economic. That is a good thing! If two adult human beings love each other and want to spend their lives together and not plan to have children, it is none of anyone’s business, even the CC. Should the two individuals just “fornicate” (as some here on CAF adore to write), or should they marry and normalize their relationship?

If two individuals do not plan to have children, under catholic rules they cannot vakidky marry. Refusal to have children is also grounds for nulity as well as impotency (another ground for nulity). And no they shouldn’t fornicate they should be celibate. As I said, focusing on temporary world pleasures is not what is expected fromus because life in this world is ttemporary. Focusing on the world is accumulating treasures in the temporarily world and Jesus clearly stared stated do not save treasures in this world save the treasures for the next world in which our life will be eternal. Yes it requires us to sacrifice some pleasures in this earth but we will gain treasures in eternal life.

The main reason for marriage is procreation and to provide a stable environment for raising children. Companionship of spouses is another reason but it goes hand in hand with procreation. If someone is not open to children then it cannot marry validly in the catholic church.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

We are all born with needs and desires that can lead to sinful acts. No kind of sexual orientation is a sin. The sexual orientation toward pedophilia is not a sin either.

This is essentially true from a non religious view but we must make a distinction between orientation and conduct Sexual conduct has serious public health consequences which society has both a right and an obligation to regulate. In contrast, there are no public health implications to sexual orientation, properly defined. Even a pedophile’s orientation, abhorrent as it may be, is harmless to the public if he never acts upon it.

The right to claim a sexual orientation does not automatically grant a license for sexual conduct.

 

[Powdered_Sugar]

To the OP, you don’t have to “get over” the gay thing.

Being Gay is not a sin. People do NOT choose to be Gay. We all have friends and family members who are gay and they should have the right to be married just as any 2 straight people can. The world needs more love, and more peace now than ever. You can’t choose who you fall in love with.

You seem to lack a basic understanding of both Catholic teaching and the nature of Love. Love isn’t a mere emotional experience, it is a decision. To love someone ultimately means to will what is best for that person. While you are correct that -being- homosexual isn’t a sin, making the decision to engage in a homosexual act is in no uncertain terms a sin. If you know it’s wrong, and you still chose to do it then it is a mortal sin. There is no getting around this, and to advocate in favor of it is also a sin. As such, you cannot truly love someone while also choosing to engage in an immoral sexual relationship with them, and given that all homosexual acts are immoral, it is impossible to love someone of the same sex while also choosing to engage in sexual acts with that person. In plain and simple terms, to chose to engage in a sexual relationship with someone of the same sex is to choose to use that person for the physical gratification you they can give you, and to choose not to love them as God intended.

A marriage -CANNOT- exist between two people of the same sex any more than it can exist between a man and a cat, it is simply not possible. they can pretend to be married all they want, but they lack the most basic reality of what a marriage is, namely, the ability to properly engage in the sexual act.

I encourage you to actually learn both what the church teaches, and why she teaches it. Feel-good sentiments like your post do nobody any good, and only serve to further a horrifically flawed understanding of the human person. If you genuinely want to help people, do not hide the Truth from them, but rather express it proudly and without reservation.

 

[Havard]

To the OP, you don’t have to “get over” the gay thing.

Being Gay is not a sin. People do NOT choose to be Gay. We all have friends and family members who are gay and they should have the right to be married just as any 2 straight people can. The world needs more love, and more peace now than ever. You can’t choose who you fall in love with.

Of course you can. One of my role models, my childhood pastor, admitted he had a particular affection for a certain single woman when he was younger. But he didn’t fall in love with her. You can’t choose your immediate/instinctual reactions to people, but you can choose what you spend your time thinking about.

 

[Rob_Arnzen]

Sodom and Gomorrah? The sin was RAPE.

That’s a step up from “inhospitality”, but it’s as wrong.

The sin was same-sex relations. The Jewish texts are crystal clear as are all the rabbinical glosses on it.

It is not until the late 20th century and the rise of LGBT so-called “exegesis” that we were were treated to these new theories about the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah.

.

 

[tigerprowl]

A friend of mine, in his senior year of high school, is currently dating another boy and they are both quite happy and in love. This friend, he is such a good and moral person, the sweetest guy I have ever met. But is he not allowed to go to Heaven because of his sexuality? (At seventeen, of course he is young, but he knows his sexuality very well. He has done a great amount of thinking, and I highly doubt that one day when he’s an adult he will just say “No, that was just a phase. I’m straight!” So please do not comment about how seventeen is a young age to determine your sexuality. That’s not what this thread is about)

So, reading the above prompts me to question: Why do you think the age of seventeen is old enough to determine your sexuality? I only ask because anyone who was once seventeen years old would surely tell you that they didn’t have everything figured out at such a young age. I won’t argue with anyone who believes otherwise, but most would agree that the teenage years were years of discovery - not just sexuality, but spirituality, career path, etc.

 

[Havard]

A friend of mine, in his senior year of high school, is currently dating another boy and they are both quite happy and in love. This friend, he is such a good and moral person, the sweetest guy I have ever met. But is he not allowed to go to Heaven because of his sexuality? (At seventeen, of course he is young, but he knows his sexuality very well. He has done a great amount of thinking, and I highly doubt that one day when he’s an adult he will just say “No, that was just a phase. I’m straight!” So please do not comment about how seventeen is a young age to determine your sexuality. That’s not what this thread is about)

So, reading the above prompts me to question: Why do you think the age of seventeen is old enough to determine your sexuality? I only ask because anyone who was once seventeen years old would surely tell you that they didn’t have everything figured out at such a young age. I won’t argue with anyone who believes otherwise, but most would agree that the teenage years were years of discovery - not just sexuality, but spirituality, career path, etc.

Edit: Oops, I just realized the first part of your post is a quote of the OP, and the second is a response. Nevermind!

 

[Weejee]

To the OP, you don’t have to “get over” the gay thing.

Being Gay is not a sin. People do NOT choose to be Gay. We all have friends and family members who are gay and they should have the right to be married just as any 2 straight people can. The world needs more love, and more peace now than ever. You can’t choose who you fall in love with.

I second it, OP.
What makes life difficult for us Christians, is that we are supposed to be chaste until we get married. I really believe that. My witness was bad because I shacked up with my husband 3 months before we got married. We still didn’t have sex, but I gave terrible witness and had to confess it to God.

Waiting till you get married has never been a part of the gay culture. But maybe now that more Christian churches are allowing Gay marriage (UCC for one) maybe this will change.

It’s hard for some 17 year olds not to go all the way. But maybe they won’t! They would truly be a unique pair, but pray for them. And love them too. :clapping::tiphat::bounce:

 

[Weejee]

May God care for you and continue to love you.

Thank you! :hug1:

 

[LokisMom]

I try so hard to accept every teaching of the Catholic Church, and I wish to convert so badly. Many Catholic teachings, like abortion, make perfect sense to me and I agree with them wholeheartedly. But the homosexual issue has placed a seed of anger in me, and it will only grow if I do not fix this…

I just don’t understand the Catholic point of view. Are gay people going to hell for being with someone they love? Is this true? Someone, please tell me that this is not true. This makes no sense to me, no sense at all.

A friend of mine, in his senior year of high school, is currently dating another boy and they are both quite happy and in love. This friend, he is such a good and moral person, the sweetest guy I have ever met. But is he not allowed to go to Heaven because of his sexuality? (At seventeen, of course he is young, but he knows his sexuality very well. He has done a great amount of thinking, and I highly doubt that one day when he’s an adult he will just say “No, that was just a phase. I’m straight!” So please do not comment about how seventeen is a young age to determine your sexuality. That’s not what this thread is about)

I, of course, do not want my best friend to go to hell. But I also want him to be happy, and I have seen how he is only happy with other boys, not girls. So if I have to decide between begging my friend to give up his love to get to Heaven, or remaining happy in the flesh and blood, then I cannot choose. I cannot accept this.

No, I am not trying to argue with the Church. I’m trying to understand. Will someone with knowledge of this topic give me resources to look at, or thoughts to ponder? Someone help me understand.

P.S. I have read many articles on this website, but I still don’t understand.

Hi

First of all, whether or not another person will go to heaven or hell is none of our business and not open for our speculation. Saying something like “everyone who does [insert sin here] is going to hell” is simplistic and goes against our Catholic principles. If any Catholic does that, just know they are not behaving in a way that us Catholics are called to behave.

Second, yes, the Church does teach that it is not moral for a man to have sex with another man. Or for a woman to have sex with another woman. But A LOT of things are not moral. That does not mean that everyone who does them is going to Hell! Once again, that is between God and the person, and not open for speculation from outsiders.

I hope this issue doesn’t scare you away from the Church.

 

[Weejee]

Hi

I hope this issue doesn’t scare you away from the Church.

Me neither. I belive in contraception, and don’t think I’ll go to hell for that either…

If those Jewish guys in bible times thought consensual homosexuality was WORSE than rape, well, a lot of time has passed since then.

I don’t think the truth of God changes with the times, and he destroyed Sodom for RAPE. Can’t see it any other way.

 

[Hope_Philomena]

So, reading the above prompts me to question: Why do you think the age of seventeen is old enough to determine your sexuality? I only ask because anyone who was once seventeen years old would surely tell you that they didn’t have everything figured out at such a young age. I won’t argue with anyone who believes otherwise, but most would agree that the teenage years were years of discovery - not just sexuality, but spirituality, career path, etc.

I think the age of understanding is different for everyone. At seventeen years, I know that some people will not even be close to understanding how they feel romantically. But I know my best friend, I know that he knows what he’s doing and understands himself. It’s just different for everyone, I think.

Thanks to the many other replies, your help is greatly appreciated.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

So, reading the above prompts me to question: Why do you think the age of seventeen is old enough to determine your sexuality? I only ask because anyone who was once seventeen years old would surely tell you that they didn’t have everything figured out at such a young age. I won’t argue with anyone who believes otherwise, but most would agree that the teenage years were years of discovery - not just sexuality, but spirituality, career path, etc.

I knew my “sexual orientation” or, rather, who I was attracted to, when I was in kindergarten. At that age, I didn’t know it would be called that or that other people experienced something different or that it would be something that would be a source of conflict for others. But I knew what I liked and I haven’t deviated from it since. And I think it was pretty obvious especially as I got older. Other people definitely noticed.

 

[LokisMom]

I only ask because anyone who was once seventeen years old would surely tell you that they didn’t have everything figured out at such a young age.

Lol, I dind’t have EVERYTHING figured out when I was 17, but I definitely knew what my sexual orientation was well before being 17.