I can't get over the gay thing

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

For all the non-Cathoilcs posting on this thread AND for some of the Catholics (who need a reminder)

This is the Church’s teaching…in a nut shell.

Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, authored by then Joseph Card. Ratzinger

Considerations Regarding Proposals to Give Legal Recognition to Unions between Homosexual Persons

"…Sacred Scripture condemns homosexual acts “as a serious depravity… (cf. Rom 1:24-27; 1 Cor 6:10; 1 Tim 1:10). This judgment of Scripture does not of course permit us to conclude that all those who suffer from this anomaly are personally responsible for it, but it does attest to the fact that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered”. This same moral judgment is found in many Christian writers of the first centuries and is unanimously accepted by Catholic Tradition.

Nonetheless, according to the teaching of the Church, men and women with homosexual tendencies “must be accepted with respect, compassion and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided”. They are called, like other Christians, to live the virtue of chastity. The homosexual inclination is however “objectively disordered” and homosexual practices are “sins gravely contrary to chastity”.
…
In those situations where homosexual unions have been legally recognized or have been given the legal status and rights belonging to marriage, clear and emphatic opposition is a duty.** One must refrain from any kind of formal cooperation in the enactment or application of such gravely unjust laws** and, as far as possible, from material cooperation on the level of their application. In this area, everyone can exercise the right to conscientious objection.

1. Homosexual ACTS are intrinsically disordered and are condemned. = Mortal Sin
2. Homosexuals must be accepted with respect, compassion and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided.
3. Catholics must be emphatically opposed to civil same sex marriage.

Pretty simple and straightforward. Any questions…vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20030731_homosexual-unions_en.html

 

[Weejee]

No matter what church you go to, there is always going to be something you find unacceptable.

I went to a church that had a gay pastor, married to another man, complete acceptance of gays, but gosh darn it, they believed in heaven but not in hell. Crummy doctine there.

Keep praying. Life is a hard road to travel. May the Lord protect and defend you.

 

[pianistclare]

Thank you all for your replies, many of your words have helped me greatly. But I know that some questions I have will never be answered.

You must understand… I just wish for my friend to be happy, and I’d do anything to make him smile. We all must make sacrifices, though, ones within reason.

Again, thank you guys

A wise priest once said to me:

The truth…is ALWAYS the most compassionate way.
Know the truth. Tell the truth. And you will never be going against God.
There’s a great movie advertised here on CAF. Desire of the Everlasting Hills.
Watch it. You can google it. It is excellent. About an hour. I think everyone who watches it will have great compassion for people who struggle with SSA.

 

[Havard]

No matter what church you go to, there is always going to be something you find unacceptable.

The way I look at it, if one looks for a Church that fits one’s preconceptions, that’s opening our arms to confirmation bias. We all have cognitive biases, so chances are what we think is going to be wrong sometimes, therefore some friction is to be expected.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

No matter what church you go to, there is always going to be something you find unacceptable.

If you go to a truly Christian church, the “thing” that you find unacceptable will always be yourself.

But Jesus is there for you, with open arms, no matter how unacceptable you are. It has nothing to do with your characteristics, your orientations, your quirks, or your political or theological opinions. Jesus accepts YOU, not your accretions.

And thank God He does!

 

[HelenRose]

Huh! Yes, sexual orientation towards pedophilia is a sin. Jesus says even if a man desires a person with his or her eyes they have committed sin.

We then we are all sinners and fall short of the glory of God.

 

[HelenRose]

Oh, dear.

Comparing two men/two women in a romantic relationship to incest and mass murder by a psycho??!

Curious to see the comments after this one…

.

It certainly is no more wrong that a couple using artificial contraception.
Besides that, incest will be the next taboo, after polygamy to fall. There are many young men and women who are children of sperm and eggs donors. In a university town were young medical and professional students donate their sperm, young men and women are bound to meet and fall in love with their sister or brother.

 

[Scottgun]

Oh, dear.

Comparing two men/two women in a romantic relationship to incest and mass murder by a psycho??!

Curious to see the comments after this one…

.

It’s not at all meant to equate them. Rather, it’s a perfectly valid analogy meant to demonstrate that one can’t just invoke “love” in the context of an evil act and somehow magically transform that act into something good. “Love” and “gay” in these contexts are often truth-obscuring euphemisms.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

No matter what church you go to, there is always going to be something you find unacceptable.

Unless you are speaking of the Holy Roman Catholic Church…the one true Church founded by Jesus Christ…then nothing within it can be unacceptable…right?

 

[WilT]

We then we are all sinners and fall short of the glory of God.

allow me to add just a bit to that…

1. we are sinners…the other half states… called towards living a life of holiness.
2. we no longer fall totally short of the glory of God since Christ died for our sins.

 

[WilT]

Unless you are speaking of the Holy Roman Catholic Church…the one true Church founded by Jesus Christ…then nothing within it can be unacceptable…right?

I agree.

 

[Weejee]

I’m not here to put down the Catholic Church.

 

[WilT]

…
I just don’t understand the Catholic point of view. Are gay people going to hell for being with someone they love? Is this true? Someone, please tell me that this is not true. This makes no sense to me, no sense at all…

I, of course, do not want my best friend to go to hell. But I also want him to be happy… I cannot accept this…

No, I am not trying to argue with the Church. I’m trying to understand…give me resources to look at, or thoughts to ponder? Someone help me understand…

P.S. I have read many articles on this website, but I still don’t understand.

Your gay friend won’t go to hell because that is not possible for us to determine the state of his soul. That’s up to God to decide. He may be on his way there if he continues to live that way.
We can’t let pleasures and passions dictate correctness and moral truths. A junky loves his junk but we cannot endear ourselves with his pleasures. An alcoholic loves his drink so we cannot endear ourselves with that persons state.
As Christians we are called to assist them in finding Christ even during their times of sinful pleasure. We can never know there state of soul nor can we know the degree of mental state or psyche. If we try, then we would be judgmental and that is not Christian. Your still young and you may not know fully the degree of why the Church asks us to live this way. Open your heart and be humble then knowledge and wisdom will come find you.
Be patient with the Church and her Wisdom

 

[kozlosap]

If you go to a truly Christian church, the “thing” that you find unacceptable will always be yourself.

But Jesus is there for you, with open arms, no matter how unacceptable you are. It has nothing to do with your characteristics, your orientations, your quirks, or your political or theological opinions. Jesus accepts YOU, not your accretions.

And thank God He does!

:thumbsup:What an awesome way to explain faith and Our Lord! I copied your two sentences into the Google KEEP application that is on all of my portable devices so that when I need a reminder, it’s close at hand.

 

[epan]

I try so hard to accept every teaching of the Catholic Church, and I wish to convert so badly. Many Catholic teachings, like abortion, make perfect sense to me and I agree with them wholeheartedly. But the homosexual issue has placed a seed of anger in me, and it will only grow if I do not fix this…

I just don’t understand the Catholic point of view. Are gay people going to hell for being with someone they love? Is this true? Someone, please tell me that this is not true. This makes no sense to me, no sense at all.

A friend of mine, in his senior year of high school, is currently dating another boy and they are both quite happy and in love. This friend, he is such a good and moral person, the sweetest guy I have ever met. But is he not allowed to go to Heaven because of his sexuality? (At seventeen, of course he is young, but he knows his sexuality very well. He has done a great amount of thinking, and I highly doubt that one day when he’s an adult he will just say “No, that was just a phase. I’m straight!” So please do not comment about how seventeen is a young age to determine your sexuality. That’s not what this thread is about)

I, of course, do not want my best friend to go to hell. But I also want him to be happy, and I have seen how he is only happy with other boys, not girls. So if I have to decide between begging my friend to give up his love to get to Heaven, or remaining happy in the flesh and blood, then I cannot choose. I cannot accept this.

No, I am not trying to argue with the Church. I’m trying to understand. Will someone with knowledge of this topic give me resources to look at, or thoughts to ponder? Someone help me understand.

P.S. I have read many articles on this website, but I still don’t understand.

You are not alone in your perceptions. You might consider looking at the teaching of some other churches. Many of them are more accepting of diversity, and more committed to social justice than the Catholic Church. Consider, for a moment, how the Catholic Church has handled its own child molestation problems. Consider the Catholic Church’s position on condom use with respect to HIV and other STD transmission. Ask yourself whether the Catholic Church has a healthy, or even a sane, approach to sexual issues.

 

[Scottgun]

You are not alone in your perceptions. You might consider looking at the teaching of some other churches. Many of them are more accepting of diversity, and more committed to social justice than the Catholic Church. Consider, for a moment, how the Catholic Church has handled its own child molestation problems. Consider the Catholic Church’s position on condom use with respect to HIV and other STD transmission. Ask yourself whether the Catholic Church has a healthy, or even a sane, approach to sexual issues.

The Church is one of the few voices of sanity left in the world. The rest of it is given over to an incoherent and self-refuting philosophy. It’s three main lies are:

1. Moral truths are relative
2. The ends justifies the means
3. Pleasure is the greatest good and suffering is the greatest evil.

Some people call this secularism, but it isn’t. It’s neo-paganism. And there’s nothing neutral about it.

 

[clintonm]

Pope St John Paul II said to stop the spread of HIV / AIDS you shouldn’t seek condom use but abstinence and sex after marriage and staying faithful to your spouse. How is that absurd? It works.

There is also a difference between social justice and bending to the whims of the moment. I would challenge you to find any other institution that has done a fraction of the charity work, medical work or works of love around the world than the Catholic Church. But because they are unwilling to abandon the commandments of Jesus they are somehow bad? Perhaps it is because we are expected to conform our will to the will of God and not change God to fit our will.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

I’m wondering if those of us who believe that sexual orientation is NOT a choice ever come to some kind off understanding with those who believe it is nothing more than a sinful choice on the part of a LGBTQ individual?

This is a very good question. Such an understanding can only happen if:

(1) The latter group admits that we all have unchosen dispositions that prompt potentially sinful actions.

and

(2) The former group admits that actions prompted by unchosen dispositions can be morally evil.

Then we could argue about the details. But if these two concessions aren’t made, then there can be no communication.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

Quote:
Originally Posted by kozlosap View Post
I’m wondering if those of us who believe that sexual orientation is NOT a choice ever come to some kind off understanding with those who believe it is nothing more than a sinful choice on the part of a LGBTQ individual?

This is a very good question. Such an understanding can only happen if:

(1) The latter group admits that we all have unchosen dispositions that prompt potentially sinful actions.

and

(2) The former group admits that actions prompted by unchosen dispositions can be morally evil.

Then we could argue about the details. But if these two concessions aren’t made, then there can be no communication.

All I need is a truly objective scientific means of determining whether a person is innately homosexual. When that happens I won’t have to be a homophobe any longer.

 

[Scottgun]

All I need is a truly objective scientific means of determining whether a person is innately homosexual. When that happens I won’t have to be a homophobe any longer.

And after that, I want a scientific study showing my greed is innate. At which point y’all need to repeal laws against stealing so that I can express my alternative property-rights orientation.