I deserve to die a horrible death?

[TheHolyTrinity]

The phrase about “deserving a horrible death” are included in St. Alphonsus Liguori’s version of the Stations of the Cross. It’s a fairly common (and intense) version of the stations

@CTBcin Yes you are right, I have been reading the Stations of the Cross over the last couple days and recognised the wording from the OP.

 

[IsaiahSpirit]

Believe in the literal sense means ‘know to be the truth.’
The English usage sometimes means strongly think to be the truth.
If you hold to the first meaning, then you claim your fallible human discernment
has come to an infallible conclusion of a heresy not being a heresy.
~
And, therefore, you promulgate it to Latin Rite Catholics,
which is considered a grave moral evil by The Church.
And against the Ex-Cathedra interpreted Word of GOD,
in The Holy Bible. Remember JESUS, saying to Paul The Apostle,
why do you persecute ME, not my followers.
May The Divine Favor of JESUS The Beloved Anointed One;
help you to repent.
~
At least you admit, the the Pillar and Foundation of Truth,
The Church, with Ex Cathedral Teaching Authority;
by The Keys JESUS gave to Simon(reed swaying in the wind) bar Jonah,
renamed (Kepha, Rock, Peter); whereby The Latin Rite;
has The Chair of Peter; and all legitimate Communion in Orthodoxy,
must agree with The Keys promising the gates of damnation,
will not prevail against The Church.
And a non-cherry picked study of The Early Church, and Apostolic Succession,
shows this did not change.
Yes, some Patriarchs in Orthodoxy disagree, but they cannot change history.
And finer points of theological, not yet Ex Cathedra by The Latin Rite;
non with-standing.
Peace.
By The Holy Spirit guiding The Ex-Cathedra Teaching Authority of The CHURCH,
with JESUS declaring woe to those who lead others astray; and by an objective
clear truth - your teaching clearly can and probably does encourage presumption
and despair (mortal sins objectively, but sins of ignorance mitigate by one’s subjective
misunderstanding culpability - but non the less, must be purified in concupiscence;
and effect of sin needing healing. And while, if they refuse Divine Favor to loss
of Salvation eventually, opposing GOD Eternally, that would be entirely their fault.)
~
You truly play with fire, leaning upon your own understanding.
Can you truly infallibly declare Adolf Hitler can make it to Heaven?
Can you truly infallibly declare anyone’s disposition by their own
decision cannot refuse Grace for Salvation?
Of course not!
That would be claiming full authority to interpret The Holy Spirit,
who Leads in ALL truth.

Why Universalism Is Popular, But Fatally Flawed

Universalism is a centuries-old belief that all people will be saved because of God's unconditional love. Learn why the doctrine is fatally flawed.

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[IsaiahSpirit]

Amen. The Holy Spirit helps with our flawed nature to discern the meaning
of seemingly harsh wording. Peace, and Blessings! JESUS IS RISEN!
The Tomb is Empty! Our REDEEMER LIVES!
~
Even while under harsh extreme suffering, GOD offers diligently Divine Favor,
to exhibit heroic humble virtue. GOD help me to be this humble.

"“But the other one rebuked him, saying, ‘Do you not even fear God, since you are under the same judgment? We are punished justly, for we are receiving what our actions deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.’ Then he said, ‘Jesus, remember me when You come into Your kingdom!’
And Jesus said to him, ‘Truly I tell you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.’”
: source: Luke 23:40-43

 

[IsaiahSpirit]

Blessing! Excellent! Thank you!
GOD produces the good.
Evil has no effect unless put into to use
by desire, welcoming & entertaining in thought - a waste of time,
which could be better spent - therefore evil.
This gets magnified when evil is spoken or done;
influencing the possibility another fallible person
could do evil. Beware the leaven of evil.
And crafty enticing luring wise in one’s own eyes
seeming good, evil - is extremely insidious;
and requires Divine Grace to for examination of conscience;
to know it; and diligently let Divine Grace purify it.
~
In the end Damnation, it’s spirit of enticements is extinguished
forever by THE MERITS OF JESUS THE BELOVED ANOINTED ONE.

~
Here is a philosophical reflection.
Whatever the punishments there; GOD always Wills them to think,
speak, and do → so, being made in the image and likeness of GOD;
the best they can do is be in a state of lack of conflict - no supernatural Joy or Peace.
A state of benign, harmless, innocuousness; so they have the ability to suffer the punishment that isn’t extremely painful. However, always reaping what they sow.
~
Deciding to willfully refuse Grace, they are narcissistic. Always ending up blaming
GOD; causing pain; but blessed to remorse as opposed to truly repent.
No real gratitude to GOD for the Blessing of being Created in God’s image and likeness; but a benign self-gratitude of being in the image and likeness of GOD;
which serves GOD’s Glory, not theirs.
What about the claim that there is no pleasure there? No rejoicing?
*It is entirely possible from Scriptures like Psalm 139;
GOD knows each person’s purpose from afar;
that once the person’s will to carry out sexual pleasure;
would have happened; their living death bluffing GOD;
always conniving ways to trick GOD → dead blood;
for our life is in our blood - as The Good Book says;

• connected to their vascular water system;
  connected to their endocrine & nervous system;
  will cause pain to the degree of opposing GOD.
  Thus for their own in, GOD’s purpose and justice benefit;
  they are prevented from carrying out pleasure-seeking.
  ~
  And never be able to force heinous imagination toward child
  porn. Which won’t exist there, for GOD’s greater Glory.
  Thus GOD’s Divine Favor to GOD; blesses them toward
  a state of remorse, toward joyless benignity at all times.
  ~
  Maybe they have a Cross, without the Image of Crucifixion.
  And maybe, when they try to force their self-willed imagination
  to see an image of JESUS Crucified - they experience earned
  suffering instead - for trying to take pleasure in mocking GOD.
  ~
  Who knows their Eternal Punishment? However, our Perfectly
  JUST GOD - does not force pain on them necessarily; however;
  non fatal 39 lashes for beneficial correction is in The Holy Bible;
  for our extreme sin. So who knows? But it is never unjust punishment.
  It is always deserved.
  ~
  By Divine Favor from The Merits of JESUS The Beloved; Who Gives
  Grace to die to one’s self; and Raises those who do, with Him -
  I ask, who would bank their Eternal Life; claiming to absolutely
  know no one goes to Damnation for Eternal Punishment? (cont…)

 

[TheLittleLady]

As long as people don’t get sent to hell that don’t deserve it.

No one is sent to hell. People go to hell because they choose to reject God.

But the story of original sin shows me it’s not my fault I’m not perfect.

When you were a little kid who did not understand sin, however, as over the age of reason we are to strive to perfection. Actively work to avoid sin and to amend our lives, to receive the Sacraments of the Church as vehicles of the grace we need to become perfect.

 

[lelinator]

It makes no sense to me makes it difficult to understand or believe Christianity. I am wondering the Catholic reasoning but haven’t found answers that resonate with me

The problem is that you’ve conflated Catholicism with Christianity. They’re not the same thing. Catholicism is the antithesis of Christianity. Christ came to set you free. To show you that you’re not imperfect. You’re not flawed. You’re not some decrepit, grotesque, worthless sinner. You’re a child of God. You’re exactly what He created you to be. And on this Easter Sunday, more than on any other day, you deserve to know that.

Unlike other animals, we possess the knowledge of good and evil. We have a conscience. We know that some of our actions are good, and some of them are bad. And we know…that try as we may, sometimes we choose the bad. But this truth about the nature of what we are, and how imperfect we are, isn’t the flaw in what we are, rather it’s the beauty in what we are. Because we can choose to do good. We can choose to be better. We can choose to sacrifice ourselves for others, and that…makes us amazing. And that makes us worthy of salvation.

That’s the message that Christ came to deliver. That’s what He died for. Not to tell you that you’re not good enough, or you’re not deserving enough, or you’re not perfect enough. He came to do what all of us have the capacity to do…to sacrifice ourselves for others. For there’s a bit of Christ in each of us, and all that we need to do, is to pick up our cross, whatever it may be, and follow after Him.

So forget what some may tell you about you’re being imperfect, and unworthy…and remember…God loves you.

Happy Easter

 

[SPBlitz]

The problem is that you’ve conflated Catholicism with Christianity. They’re not the same thing. Catholicism is the antithesis of Christianity. Christ came to set you free. To show you that you’re not imperfect. You’re not flawed. You’re not some decrepit, grotesque, worthless sinner. You’re a child of God. You’re exactly what He created you to be. And on this Easter Sunday, more than on any other day, you deserve to know that.

So this seems a bit needlessly denigrating of Catholics. We don’t teach that people are worthless - quite the opposite. That’s why the church teaches the dignity of all people. We teach that God love’s everyone.

To show you that you’re not imperfect. You’re not flawed.

So what you’re saying is that you are perfect? I mean logically if you aren’t imperfect then that would have to mean that you are perfect.

 

[lelinator]

So this seems a bit needlessly denigrating of Catholics.

Perhaps, but it’s not at all meant to denigrate Catholics. Some of the finest people I know are Catholics. And some of the finest people I know…aren’t. But I don’t think that it matters. It seems very unChristian to me, to judge someone by a label. Is that what Christ would do…judge someone by a label? If not, then what would He judge them by? So I don’t care if you’re Catholic, or Muslim, or Jew, because I don’t think that any of these things has anything to do with being a Christian.

I think that Catholicism is a product of man’s inability to accept that he’s forgiven. I think that Catholicism is simply man’s attempt to create an illusion of God. But I don’t think that you need to do anything to earn forgiveness…because I think that you never needed it. And I think that if Christ really did die for a greater purpose, it was simply to let you know what was already true…you’re forgiven, and you always have been.

So what you’re saying is that you are perfect?

I’m not perfect in the same way that one thinks of God as being perfect…but then I’m not supposed to be. I am, what I am, with all the foibles of what I am. Perfection…if such a thing can actually exist, must always and forever be left to Gods. Real or imagined.

 

[SPBlitz]

But I don’t think that you need to do anything to earn forgiveness…because I think that you never needed it. And I think that if Christ really did die for a greater purpose, it was simply to let you know what was already true…you’re forgiven, and you always have been.

So a rapist doesn’t need to be forgiven? Even an unrepentant rapist? They never even needed it in the first place? I find that hard to believe.

So I don’t care if you’re Catholic, or Muslim, or Jew, because I don’t think that any of these things has anything to do with being a Christian.

Didn’t you say that Catholicism is the antithesis of Christianity? This seems to imply that to you being a Catholic does have something to do with be Christian - ie is the opposite of being one.

 

[lelinator]

So a rapist doesn’t need to be forgiven? Even an unrepentant rapist? They never even needed it in the first place? I find that hard to believe.

Thus the need for the Catholic church, because people can’t accept that they’re forgiven. They feel the inescapable need to atone. And to demand atonement. To do something to earn forgiveness. It’s beyond their comprehension, to just forgive.

But that’s what we’re asked to do…forgive.

Didn’t you say that Catholicism is the antithesis of Christianity?

Yes, Christianity is about love. Born out of compassion for one’s fellow man. Without prerequisites. Without conditions. But for Catholicism this isn’t good enough, because men must be told how to be good, and how to be righteous, and how to be forgiven. Christ came to take away the law, to fulfill the law. Catholicism puts it back. Because men feel lost without it.

But it’s simple, do justly, love mercy, and walk humbly with thy God. And forgive. That’s why Catholicism is the antithesis of Christianity, because Christianity takes away the law, and writes it on men’s hearts, and Catholicism takes it back again and codifies it. It becomes an arbiter where none is needed.

 

[SPBlitz]

Thus the need for the Catholic church, because people can’t accept that they’re forgiven. They feel the inescapable need to atone. And to demand atonement. To do something to earn forgiveness. It’s beyond their comprehension, to just forgive.

You didn’t answer my question. So a rapist doesn’t have to do anything to receive forgiveness? Not repent? Not stop raping? Nothing? He’s already forgiven, really?

But for Catholicism this isn’t good enough, because men must be told how to be good, and how to be righteous, and how to be forgiven. Christ came to take away the law, to fulfill the law. Catholicism puts it back. Because men feel lost without it.

But it’s simple, do justly, love mercy, and walk humbly with thy God. And forgive. That’s why Catholicism is the antithesis of Christianity, because Christianity takes away the law, and writes it on men’s hearts, and Catholicism takes it back again and codifies it. It becomes an arbiter where none is needed.

Lot of contradictions here. You say that Catholicism is bad because it tells us how to ‘be good, and how to be righteous’ and then, when you say how to be a Christianity, it’s ‘but it’s simple, do justly, love mercy, etc’. So we must be just but it’s bad that the church tells us how to be just?
And then you say that Christianity both takes away the law and writes it on our hearts. Which is it? You contrast this with the how the church takes away the law and then codifies it. What? None of your post makes much sense.

 

[Mike_from_NJ]

We have a lifetime to go to confession and cleanse ourselves of sin, and to eat at the banquet that happens at every Mass.

One’s lifetime is but the smallest fraction compared to the eternity that one would spend in Hell. We know of stories of people who admit the guilt of their crimes decades later. There’s no reason why one would stop reaching out to someone – especially a God that allegedly is love itself.

Mike, sorry, I should have checked your profile before replying. I didn’t realize that you’re an atheist so you many not be familiar with what goes on at the Mass and why Catholics go to confession, what happens when we’re baptized.

I’m well versed in Catholicism.

Jesus crucified is everything we need to know about how God extends his mercy, forgiveness and compassion.

More accurately it shows the arbitrary and finite limits that a limitless God extends his mercy, forgiveness, and compassion.

 

[Mike_from_NJ]

I think your view of Hell is a little skewed. You talk of it as if it’s a pain that God inflicts on us - some sort of external punishment that he didn’t need to subject us to and could remove from us at any time if He wished. But many philosophers view Hell as being the mere fact of being a damned soul. That the damned souls rejects God or clings to sin, and that the natural result of this is Hell. That if God is the source of all goodness, and a person freely rejects God, then the logical result of this is that they are forever cut off from goodness - which is what we mean by Hell. This, I think, is a more accurate view of Hell.

In at least 9 separate passages in the New Testament Hell is described as a place of fire and torment. It’s only after the fact when others point out the horror of infinite torture for finite sins (including the sins of disbelief and offending God) that Christians have tried to pretend the Bible doesn’t say what it says. It also doesn’t excuse why God can’t extend his mercy beyond the life of a person.

Seem to be over-analyzing a bit, don’t you think?

It’s actually perfectly analyzed. It’s taking the analogy to its logical conclusion – which some are uncomfortable with as it paints God in an unfavorable light.

 

[SPBlitz]

In at least 9 separate passages in the New Testament Hell is described as a place of fire and torment.

And why can’t that be metaphorical? Heaven is described as having gold and harps - that doesnt mean that Heaven is literally us sitting around with harps - it is meant to express the inexpressible. Why can’t the Bible’s descriptions of Hell be doing the same - be attempting to describe something that we don’t have the language to adequately describe? Just because you insist that we take the words at face value doesn’t mean you are right. You have to prove that my conception of Hell is untenable for a Christian to hold. Otherwise you are merely attacking a strawman.

It’s actually perfectly analyzed. It’s taking the analogy to its logical conclusion – which some are uncomfortable with as it paints God in an unfavorable light.

The parable was meant to show that those who aren’t actively preparing for the afterlife are in a bad position. Trying to add in how someone might not be able to afford a garment, etc is needlessly muddying the waters with things the parable was never meant to address.

It also doesn’t excuse why God can’t extend his mercy beyond the life of a person.

Because when you die you no longer exist in time as we do - you exists in eternity, where all moments are present. Someone who is unrepentant at one point in eternity is by definition unrepentant at all points in eternity. And someone who is unrepentant cannot be forgiven. Even mercy cannot forgive someone who refuses to be forgiven.

 

[IsaiahSpirit]

GOD’s Perfect GOODNESS and Compassionate Concern truly seeks you.
and each of us.
~
Cherry picking Divinely Inspired inerrant The Holy Bible takes things way out of context; regarding GOD’s Perfect Benevolent Loving Nature.
If a child was running toward a street; to possible be killed;
would you sometimes have to raise your voice?
If trying and trying and trying to help someone who needed
an intervention for a 12 step program to kick drug addiction;
wouldn’t it be a normal thing to raise your voice “it’s gonna kill you!”
~
A Grace led pious plausible reflection. I do not claim infallibility
but since GOD is all powerful - All Holy Things Are Possible to GOD.
~
Personally, since there will be a New Heaven and a New Earth;
when GOD Rests; I think we live in a concrete lucid existence;
not fully Created. One of the terms is The Valley of Decision.
~
Yes, The All Powerful GOD can put us in a living Epic immense
living story to show the Benefits of GODs objective Truth in Ethics,
and Goodness. GOD Always Existing, in The Eternal NOW;
whereby movement in HEAVEN had Eternal Time; differing from our own.
GOD wrote The Story KNOWing the antithesis of Goodness existed.
However, GOD never desired, welcomed, nor entertained a single
evil thought. Of course, never carried one out.
~
So, SATAN is the name of evil spirits. Since one of the Main Duties of Holy Angels
is GUARDIAN Angels - Michael (Who IS Like GOD is the meaning) as one of the leaders. Lucifer (seducing false light) is one of the name given to The Fallen Angels.
Their free will fall coincided with ours.
~
GOD is in The Beginning, Now, and in our Future and beyond; shaping Providence
according to our each of our free-wills, from every direction way more conceivable
to the human imagination. SO, GOD can’t be harmed, but Suffers for us.
SO, this long arduous sometimes painful difficult journey - in the end, no harm no foul
for anyone fully Created. Damnation is a benign continued living death lucid yet concrete story.
Here is a verse asking GOD about living in darkness, doom, and oblivion.
" Can Your loving devotion be proclaimed in the grave,
Your faithfulness in Abaddon? [*note:doom]
“Will Your wonders be known in the darkness,
or Your righteousness in the land of oblivion?
But to You, O LORD, I cry for help;
in the morning my prayer comes before You.”
The hierarchy of damnation as levels. The more heinous and brutal,
the more the penitentiary. I suppose those who were relatively harmless,
are under ‘house arrest,’ as wardens and prison guards; and other jobs there.
Since there can’t be children or pleasure there, every man is sterile and impotent;
and every woman is barren and frigid.
GOD offers Divine Favor to be brought to the New Heaven and the New Earth;
with pain & anguish & war no more - every tear wiped away. All things made new.
~
(cont…)

 

[IsaiahSpirit]

“All the world’s a stage,
And all the men and women merely players;
They have their exits and their entrances,…” Shakespeare
~
Here are some mathematical geometries which many help. The only way out of
the dreamlike (with nightmares) living story - is up, by Divine Favor through Jesus The Beloved Anointed One - Who Did NO Evil, ONLY GOOD having come from Heaven. or down - in another story, being the lucid yet concrete in effect benign,
world. However; it must be that no heinous detestable abominations can be carried out there, also. Only benign mental sins of narcissistic haughtiness of wise in one’s own eyes - at the end of time. No true Joy, no Hope only optimism or pessimism in a bland benign innocuous existence forever. Not a consummation devoutly to be wished.
GOD takes no enjoyment out of someone freely choosing the second death;
but is exceedingly rejoicing, when someone by GOD’s available help;
chooses GOD and GOD’s Ways out of love of GOD and neighbor.
Pretense in selfishness non withstanding. Only sincerity. Peace.