I distrust Christians

[nickybr38]

Or at least the majority of them.

I’m in the process of converting to the Catholic faith. RCIA lessons start in September, I will be attending Mass every other Sunday until then (due to other obligations I can’t attend every Sunday), I have spoken to the parish in my area to prepare… and until September I will be reading the Catechism, the Bible and other documents to prepare the way.

I find myself increasingly concerned with this one little issue; my distrust of other Christians and sometimes outright dislike towards them.

The first week I was on this board I met some truly wonderful people ( to them) who I immediately and fully trusted. I’m not sure if it’s because I was in the right place or if the Holy Spirit was guiding me or what but I have since decided if I have questions they’re the people I trust to ask. And that’s good!

However, I’m concerned about RCIA. So far the people I have met from the local parish are the kinds of Christians I distrust immediately. I have not yet met the people who will be leading the RCIA classes but if they’re like the rest of the congregation then : … now this may be God’s way of making me overcome this particular obstacle but I don’t know how to! :\ I’m actually quite worried about this. I’ve always had trouble trusting religious people because so often they have led me astray and filled me with confusion where before I had peace. Unfortunately I am succetible (spelling?) to being swayed. I am attempting to educate myself better so I’m not so easily looped around and about but in the meantime I have to be careful with who I let instruct me in the faith.

I know, to a certain extent (you will know them by their fruits is something I keep thinking of in the midst of my distrust), that I am being judgmental and I sincerely hope to overcome this.

It’s not just distrust though. I have one Christian friend who is not a family member… because a certain part of me dislikes Christians… well, not completely. It’s hard to explain. Those who are devout (in ANY religion - not extremists… just people who profess with their lips AND live the life) I find myself liking nearly on sight but those who are lukewarm I just… don’t like. And it’s bad because I was THERE (although even when I was lukewarm I still disliked them)… I don’t know where this stems from or really how to let it go. I HAVE been praying, I just feel as if I also need to do my part.

What I’m asking for is some advice. Has anyone else struggled with disliking and/or distrusting other Christians? How did you overcome this obstacle and are you now able to approach other Christians without… well, I suppose skepticism and a tinge of bitterness?

Oh! And for new converts… was it difficult to ‘unlearn’ what you had been taught? I find myself, to a certain extent, still falling back on things I learned in my youth but many of these things are not doctrinely or even scripturally sound. I kind of wish I had a mind eraser so I could just scrub all my old ‘thoughts’ out and start completely fresh! Hah.

Thanks guys. I appreciate your time. And I apologize. I know this post makes me sound really horrible but it’s easier to ask for advice here anonymously then to approach someone face to face!

 

[bnbkaine]

Hey there nickybr38! I am so happy to hear that you are going to be joining RCIA in the fall. I was a cradle Catholic that didn’t get Confirmed so went through RCIA three years ago and fell way in love with the Faith. The good thing about RCIA is that, regardless of the personal opinions of the instructors, our Faith is pretty much laid out in the Catechism and backed by the Bible and Tradition. Even if you only trusted God, He is the one who created the Church, so you are in the right place.

As far as trusting other people, you need to pray. One of the theological virtues is charity which means love. We are called to love even our enemies. It is hard. But that is what Jesus calls us to do. The great thing about charity is that it is not an emotion; it is a choice. You need to pray for help, but to trust someone, to love them, you need to say to yourself, “I am going to love Person X.” If they are lukewarm, then being especially charitable to them could affect them greatly. If you are perceiving them as lukewarm and they are not, then you are judging them by your own standards. Some people choose to show their love for God in different ways. I don’t like all of the ways, but I am glad that the people are on the team!

 

[baltobetsy]

If you pay attention to your own signature line, you’ll be well on your way to overcoming your troubles in this regard. You will find sinners everywhere you go, even - especially - in the Church. And in the mirror. (At least I do!)

Don’t worry too much about who instructs you in RCIA. Of course it would be better to have someone like puzzleannie teach you - someone who understands and lives all the teachings of the Church. But if you don’t, the Holy Spirit will still be there to guide you to all truth. You’re doing some good reading as preparation, so you won’t easily be led astray. May I also suggest the book, Catholicism for Dummies. Not really for dummies at all, it’s an excellent introduction to living the Catholic life. (Just don’t confuse it with the Complete Idiot’s Guide, which is not good.)

And the word you tried to spell is SUSCEPTIBLE.

Welcome home!

Betsy

 

[nickybr38]

And the word you tried to spell is SUSCEPTIBLE.

Welcome home!

Betsy

I have Catholicism for Dummies! My roommate has taken off with it though. Since my decision to convert my roommate has decided to convert as well. She has said quite clearly that she wouldn’t have considered the Church if she didn’t have me to go with her. :\ Quite the surprising thing to hear but as she didn’t tell me until AFTER I think it’s all right.

THANK YOU! I was writing in a hurry so didn’t have time for a spell check.

Loving isn’t my issue. I’m quite good at loving… but you don’t have to like someone to love them or being loving towards them (help them when they’re in need, etc. etc.). I suppose that’s where I’m getting confused.

Even if I learn to love, can I ever really trust other Christians?

BUT you’re right. Anything they teach in RCIA will be founded in the truth the Church teaches so I’ll focus on that. I’m so used to the churches I was raised in where EVERYTHING was personal opinion which distorted … well, everything.

Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut ladies!

 

[rapunzel77]

Nicky, I understand what you are saying. Not everyone who is a “Christian” is trustworthy. I would focus on growing closer to Christ and getting through RCIA. Remember that conversion is an ongoing process. It doesn’t stop when you enter the Church. There is so much to love and to learn. Sure, there will be moments when you fall back on old habits. That’s normal. For now though, immerse yourself in the Faith and culture. Remember that becoming Catholic isn’t just adhering to a set of beliefs. It is also immersing yourself in a completely different worldview and culture. Love it and live it.

Sure, there will be some Christians that you will not like. That happens. We are not commanded to like everybody but we are called to love everyone as Our Lord has loved everyone.

 

[cephas161619]

Just because someone is “Christian” does not make them trustworthy. St Paul speaks to this. I recently found myself with a group of Christians for prayer and fellowship. and I found myself very suspicious and distrustful of their being frauds or hypocrites. I quickly concluded that it must be in large part because of my disappointment at the recent revelation that a priest I had greatly admired had led a double life. With time though, I found that a large part of it was my fear of letting God work in my life, with everything he’s asking. I can’t answer what’s causing your mistrust, but it sounds like you already have a good idea.

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

You have already got a lot of great responses to this. I’ll post, but it will only reinforce what others have already said.

Too often we make the mistake that because we are in a christian group, or speaking with people who identify as Christian, or even Catholic, we think that they are trustworthy or safe. This is easy to do, and is also very dangerous. In my experience, you will find the same number of people who will hurt you just as if you were among non-christians. This is because we are all sinner, and some people are still working out their own salvation when it comes to charity, and kindness. It actually can be more hurtful with Christians or Catholics because we trust them with more because we feel that sense of brotherhood with them and share more with them. Then, if they are the people who are going to hurt you, they will generally bring God into it. This has all too often driven people from the faith. You can be called “cafeteria catholic” or “hellbound” and so on.

My advice is grow a tough hide, or learn that your distrust is a good thing. Christians, just as any other social group, need to earn trust. Just always know that God loves you with a deep, passionate, and unconditional love. HE is someone you can always trust.

 

[jmcrae]

I think it’s quite healthy and sane to have a sense of caution about other people. We are all on a journey, and none of us is perfect - or perfectly reliable. Check and double check everything, and always, always have a Plan B.

The one lesson I keep relearning is, nobody can ever be trusted to keep their promises. They forget, they get busy, they get sidetracked, or else they just plain change their minds about wanting to help you, and you end up stuck on your own, every single time, so it pays to learn how to become self-sufficient.

You can like people, without considering them to be dependable.

Meanwhile, with regard to your RCIA, it’s like any other voluntary group - the leaders are just ordinary people from the parish; they don’t (normally) have theology degrees - they are there to share their ordinary day-to-day faith with you; they are not there to teach you the canon law, or any kind of deep theological principles - what they are there to do is show you by their example and stories, how one gets through the day, living as an ordinary Catholic, and to teach you the very basic things that ordinary Catholics are supposed to know. You aren’t going to come out of there with any kind of a degree - rather, you will come out of there with the basic skill-set and knowledge of how to live an ordinary Catholic life.

 

[Major_Minor]

Possibly you are also responding to current media’s constant delivery of negative imagery of Christians? Or maybe you’re having difficulty letting go of of a preference for a certain peer-group?

There are a lot of possibles here… I’d say that on another level it isn’t uncommon for people to have mixed feelings while going through RCIA or the process of conversion.

Are you converting from a Protestant background? I’d recommend the books of Scott Hahn, who used to be a Protestant minister. He does a very good job of explaining Catholic teachings in a context that’s easy for Protestants to understand.

What is the issue of -trust- that you are having a problem with? That they will lie to you in RCIA? At this point there probably hasn’t been any relationship built up to the degree where you will have to trust anybody with anything other than your faith formation. On this purely beginning level I wouldn’t worry too much.

Trust is something that should be earned. Always remember that. Don’t give trust to someone too easily in difficult matters to someone who hasn’t earned it no matter what demographic they are or your level of comfort zone with that demographic. On the other hand there’s no need to keep looking over your shoulder at every step of the way in RCIA! Maybe the Lord is trying to work on prejudices you might only be faintly aware of. Remember that very good people may not look at all like what you think they will, too.

I will say this. I came back to the Church about 6-7 years ago and now that I have been here for a while… it is obvious to me that there is a FAR greater level of trust-worthiness among my Catholic friends than anywhere else I’ve been.

God bless.

 

[Joe_5859]

Nicky,

I think I understand what you’re going through. I went through something similar. I was raised Catholic, but in college, I found myself filled with many doubts. Eventually, half way through college, I had a conversion experience which led me to finally make the Catholic faith my own (rather than something accepted passively).

In those early days, I had many similar thoughts to those you are expressing. I had spent so many years undereducated with regards to my faith that I was very suspicious of any new Catholic information (or even some of the old information) that came from sources beyond that limited group of priests and friends who had facilitated my conversion.

I suppose that, on some level, I was a bit perturbed at those I felt had not adequately catechized me. Thus, I was suspicious of “outsiders” as being of the same ilk. Anytime I attended Mass at another parish, I was immediately on “abuse patrol” waiting to see what liturgical rubric would be violated next.

I think what helped me the most to overcome this (beyond prayer, of course!) was time and education. The more I learned about my faith, the more I realized I had not been as under-catechized as I thought. I had simply made decisions and listend to people that led me to reject certain aspects of Catholic teaching. I also learned that many things I had assumed were heresy and liturgical abuse were, in fact, allowed. That was all sort of humbling.

I really have taken to heart the words of Benedict XVI in the intro to his book “Jesus of Nazareth.” In the intro, he makes the disclaimer that the book is the fruit of his spiritual reflection and it is not in any way an exercise of papal infallibility or his role as Pope. He follows that disclaimer with these words:

“I would only ask my readers for that initial goodwill without which there can be no understanding.”

These words really cut me to the heart and I have tried to live by them in my interactions with other people. We cannot hope to understand what someone is saying or where they are coming from unless we at least initially presume they have good intentions (which does not preclude the very real possibility that further investigation will reveal bad intentions, but we don’t want to assume that from the beginning).

It’s also helped me to meet a lot of different people and hear stories about people. Once, a priest who I greatly trust advised me not to judge even the “heretics” too harshly. He said he once went to a presentation given by Fr. Karl Rahner (a most beloved theologian in “progressive” circles) and he found him deeply in prayer praying the rosary beforehand. We can’t assume that these people are monsters.

It is a bit of a balancing act, though. It can be beneficial to be guarded if you feel you may be easily swayed by misinformation. But be careful not to blame it on the person. I think it is possible to be skeptical of what the person is saying without questioning their integrity or their intentions.

I guess I don’t have a quick-fix or an easy solution for you. I just encourage you to hang in there and give it time. The more you learn about authentic Catholic teaching, the easier it becomes to sort the good from the not-so-good. And the longer you’re around learning this stuff, the more reliable sources you will encounter. It’s okay to be hesitant to accept certain information that hasn’t been verified through channels we trust, but that doesn’t need to color our opinions of those people.

God bless!

 

[nickybr38]

Meanwhile, with regard to your RCIA, it’s like any other voluntary group - the leaders are just ordinary people from the parish; they don’t (normally) have theology degrees - they are there to share their ordinary day-to-day faith with you; they are not there to teach you the canon law, or any kind of deep theological principles - what they are there to do is show you by their example and stories, how one gets through the day, living as an ordinary Catholic, and to teach you the very basic things that ordinary Catholics are supposed to know. You aren’t going to come out of there with any kind of a degree - rather, you will come out of there with the basic skill-set and knowledge of how to live an ordinary Catholic life.

Eh… now this I do have issue with. I’m not so much interested in learning how someone else is living the Catholic life… I’m more interested in what the Church teaches the Catholic life should be. And if I don’t trust people to be obeying the Church’s teaches, how can I trust that their interpretation of the Catholic life is correct…? I think I’m overthinking. Haha!

My friend gave me sage advice once and I need to learn to put it into practice. Anyway this is what she said to me:

“Nicole, you’re overthinking and overthinking leads to overthoughts!”

Thank you everyone for your advice. I’m stubborn but I’m trying, clearly, as I’m asking a big group of Christian strangers for advice.

 

[jmcrae]

Eh… now this I do have issue with. I’m not so much interested in learning how someone else is living the Catholic life… I’m more interested in what the Church teaches the Catholic life should be.

Well, how to do that is by presenting actual living examples of it. No one can live a theory.

And if I don’t trust people to be obeying the Church’s teaches, how can I trust that their interpretation of the Catholic life is correct…? I think I’m overthinking. Haha!

Well, hopefully your priest will have chosen the best examples available, of Catholic living, for his RCIA leadership team.

Also keep in mind that there are a wide variety of perfectly acceptable spiritualities within Catholicism. There are those who are service-oriented, and live out their life with Christ through service to the poor (Franciscans, Clares), alongside those whose more mystical spirituality leads them to pray the Rosary and go to Adoration more frequently, (Dominicans, Carmelites) and then those who make their daily work to be their prayer (Opus Dei, Benedictines), and those who prefer to study their way to holiness (Jesuits) and many more. Each of them has necessary contributions to make to the whole.

My friend gave me sage advice once and I need to learn to put it into practice. Anyway this is what she said to me:

“Nicole, you’re overthinking and overthinking leads to overthoughts!”

Right - you also can’t make progress if you are continually second-guessing everyone. At some point you do have to just step out in faith.

Thank you everyone for your advice. I’m stubborn but I’m trying, clearly, as I’m asking a big group of Christian strangers for advice.

Good point!

 

[nickybr38]

I really have taken to heart the words of Benedict XVI in the intro to his book “Jesus of Nazareth.” In the intro, he makes the disclaimer that the book is the fruit of his spiritual reflection and it is not in any way an exercise of papal infallibility or his role as Pope. He follows that disclaimer with these words:

“I would only ask my readers for that initial goodwill without which there can be no understanding.”
God bless!

Ah, Joe! Thank you! I’m reading that book right now and had completely overlooked the introduction.

You’re right… and I appreciate your answer. It’s actually a big relief to hear someone else has struggled with this and encouraging to hear that with time it does get easier. Whereas you were a Cradle Catholic I was in some ways a ‘Cradle Protestant’, except one that was bounced from church to church to church and exposed to so many conflicting and confusing viewpoints. It was all this conflict that led me away from the Protestant faith and into ‘non-denominational’ land.

Major Minor -

*Possibly you are also responding to current media’s constant delivery of negative imagery of Christians? Or maybe you’re having difficulty letting go of of a preference for a certain peer-group? *

As I said my friends are not Christian. When I left the church I found acceptance only amongst non-Christians but this set me in a position where all I ever heard about Christians was the negative side and this unfortunately heightened my sense of distrust. The Christians who did wrong, the Christians who fell away… the Christians who hurt others and drove others from the church by their misaction, these are the only ones I’ve been exposed to for many years.

The thing I’m having troubles with trusting is people’s interpretation of what the Church teaches and what the Bible is saying. I’m not sure if you have much experience with the Protestant church but the churches I went to taught a huge level of personal religion that leads to a mentality where you pick and choose what you like and then if you don’t like something you either completely ignore it or twist it until it means what you want.

I remember in one Bible study heatedly arguing (with the minister over the interpretation of a bible verse. He kept insisting it meant what he wanted it to mean but no matter how hard I tried it simply didn’t mesh up. By what authority was his interpretation superior to mine?

Even on the boards I’m having a difficult time with this because I went to the place those around me went… read and interpret with your own power and ignore everything else. Of course this means that much of my theology is not quite sound. I’m eager to correct that…

but it’s left me in a place where I question the knowledge of those around me. And, Joe is right, I question the intentions of those around me too. It’s like I’m expecting a false teacher in anyone who attempts to ‘show me the truth’.

But he’s also right in that no one intentionally tried to mislead me. The people I grew up with genuinely believed their interpretation. I’m really glad he mentioned that, it’s something I’m going to have to think on.

Phew! I’m glad I posted this… You guys have given me a lot to process.

 

[RazzsMom]

Nicole: Hopefully, your RCIA team will, indeed, teach you how to live as a Catholic. But you should be assured that a good RCIA team will also teach you what you need to know and want to learn about the Catechism, the Pope, Prayer, doctrine, etc. My team tries our best to teach both. A convert needs both.

God bless you!

 

[AlanFromWichita]

On a video of a monk speaking, he was asked what it was like to live in a monastery.

His answer: “Imagine being married to 83 guys you don’t really like.”

Alan

 

[po18guy]

Or at least the majority of them.

I’m in the process of converting to the Catholic faith. RCIA lessons start in September, I will be attending Mass every other Sunday until then (due to other obligations I can’t attend every Sunday), I have spoken to the parish in my area to prepare… and until September I will be reading the Catechism, the Bible and other documents to prepare the way.

I find myself increasingly concerned with this one little issue; my distrust of other Christians and sometimes outright dislike towards them.

The first week I was on this board I met some truly wonderful people ( to them) who I immediately and fully trusted. I’m not sure if it’s because I was in the right place or if the Holy Spirit was guiding me or what but I have since decided if I have questions they’re the people I trust to ask. And that’s good!

However, I’m concerned about RCIA. So far the people I have met from the local parish are the kinds of Christians I distrust immediately. I have not yet met the people who will be leading the RCIA classes but if they’re like the rest of the congregation then : … now this may be God’s way of making me overcome this particular obstacle but I don’t know how to! :\ I’m actually quite worried about this. I’ve always had trouble trusting religious people because so often they have led me astray and filled me with confusion where before I had peace. Unfortunately I am succetible (spelling?) to being swayed. I am attempting to educate myself better so I’m not so easily looped around and about but in the meantime I have to be careful with who I let instruct me in the faith.

I know, to a certain extent (you will know them by their fruits is something I keep thinking of in the midst of my distrust), that I am being judgmental and I sincerely hope to overcome this.

It’s not just distrust though. I have one Christian friend who is not a family member… because a certain part of me dislikes Christians… well, not completely. It’s hard to explain. Those who are devout (in ANY religion - not extremists… just people who profess with their lips AND live the life) I find myself liking nearly on sight but those who are lukewarm I just… don’t like. And it’s bad because I was THERE (although even when I was lukewarm I still disliked them)… I don’t know where this stems from or really how to let it go. I HAVE been praying, I just feel as if I also need to do my part.

What I’m asking for is some advice. Has anyone else struggled with disliking and/or distrusting other Christians? How did you overcome this obstacle and are you now able to approach other Christians without… well, I suppose skepticism and a tinge of bitterness?

Oh! And for new converts… was it difficult to ‘unlearn’ what you had been taught? I find myself, to a certain extent, still falling back on things I learned in my youth but many of these things are not doctrinely or even scripturally sound. I kind of wish I had a mind eraser so I could just scrub all my old ‘thoughts’ out and start completely fresh! Hah.

Thanks guys. I appreciate your time. And I apologize. I know this post makes me sound really horrible but it’s easier to ask for advice here anonymously then to approach someone face to face!

Nicky, armed with a catechism, you may compare the teaching you receive against the rock-solid truth. If you find variance, and you likely will, bring it up to them. It is very possible that they do not know the teaching of the catechism. If not, then you become a source of light to them. Saint Paul teaches us to “Test everything. Retain what is good” (1 Thessalonians 5:21). But, the most wonderful thing is that you are seeking truth.

Draw back and look at the big picture: after years of indifference, you suddenly were struck with a bolt from the blue, calling you back to faith. The Lord has plans for you. Some of them are big, and some of them are merely daily details. All are important to God, or they would not have been sent your way.

As to your concerns, at my former parish we had a DRE (director of religious education - parish employee) who is very profit-oriented and new-agey. His charities and projects are either protestant or secular. Not one of them is identifiable as Catholic. We gritted our teeth and tolerated this until he called my daughter’s Confirmation (in another parish with our former Priest and the local Bishop) illicit. We were done with him. All we can do now is pray for him.

I think that you are being tested and called to action. The Lord has raised your hackles, so to speak, when you hear something that does not sit well. This is not something to be anxious of, but rather joyful about, since both you and those who profess to teach will both end up knowing the truth. If they accept it, good for them. That you seek the truth is good for you in God’s eyes.

Christ’s peace be with you.

 

[Maximilian928]

You are certainly on the right track by going to RCIA. I am a convert as well, and I left the Protestant Church when I was younger because of the hypocrisy and judgemental nature of the people. For many years I had many of the same issues with Christians. People are always going to be imperfect, and Christians themselves are often perceived as the worse. This is because when you’re on the outside looking in you hold these people up to a different standard, which we rarely meet.

I had to come to a point where I realized that I could not base my views on God and religion on people themselves. I was led to the Catholic Church by the Holy Spirit because I sought truth, and that truth is found in the Church, not people. You might have heard the saying; “Don’t leave Peter because of Judas.” This is so true! Remember that the Lord can use you as a convert to revive those “lukewarm” Christians in your Parish. Sadly, many Catholics don’t see the joy within our faith. Sometimes it takes an outsider to teach the natives, and I have a feeling that could be you. God bless, and keep your focus on Christ.

 

[po18guy]

You are certainly on the right track by going to RCIA. I am a convert as well, and I left the Protestant Church when I was younger because of the hypocrisy and judgemental nature of the people. For many years I had many of the same issues with Christians. People are always going to be imperfect, and Christians themselves are often perceived as the worse. This is because when you’re on the outside looking in you hold these people up to a different standard, which we rarely meet.

I had to come to a point where I realized that I could not base my views on God and religion on people themselves. I was led to the Catholic Church by the Holy Spirit because I sought truth, and that truth is found in the Church, not people. You might have heard the saying; “Don’t leave Peter because of Judas.” This is so true! Remember that the Lord can use you as a convert to revive those “lukewarm” Christians in your Parish. Sadly, many Catholics don’t see the joy within our faith. Sometimes it takes an outsider to teach the natives, and I have a feeling that could be you. God bless, and keep your focus on Christ.

Wise words, indeed. And, welcome to the forums!

 

[Edward_H]

Nicki,

I recommend that, in addition to RCIA, you do some other work in/for/with the Church.

Get into some ministries focused on sweating and outbound sincere charity. Food bank, hospital visits, home building, tax preparing for the disadvantaged, nursing home visits, prison ministries, etc, etc. etc.

Find the difficult to do ones…and then go work and give yourself generously. You’ll meet all kinds of people. All strugglers in their own way. And you’ll meet the Holy Spirit in those activities. You’ll make many friends. You’ll laugh a lot, you’ll work. It’ll be great.

You’ll meet a lot of good real people to love (vs imagined people to distrust) and your worries about trust will be washed away quickly by Holy sweat.

Just my opinion.

 

[nickybr38]

Yesterday I texted my sister to tell her;

Be careful when you ask God to use you because He just might take you up on that offer!



I should have paid more attention to my own advice.