I don't get it...if you are a non-Catholic Christian, then why aren't you a Catholic Christian?

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Prodigal_Son1 said:
If that’s the way you ‘believe’, or ‘doubt’, why is it a talking point with you? I mean, do you see one believing in the immaculate conception as having any impact on their salvation? If yes, please take the time to explain.
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I do not believe that it would have an impact on my salvation. It does however have an impact on how I view the Catholic Church.
The reasoning behind that is that I could serve Jesus Christ believing in the Immaculate Conception as well as I can not believing in it.
The difference however is that one point agrees with the Catholic teaching and the other doesn’t. That is reason enough for me to be honest and sever my ties to the Church and not all myself Catholic anymore because I do not believe something that the Catholic Church holds as an evident truth.
After all the question was “if you are a non-Catholic Christian, then why aren’t you a Catholic Christian?”
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
No, I can agree, afterall Martin taught everyone to interpret scriptures for themselves. Once that happened, many didn’t agree with him and started their own Churches. Now we have way too many different Churches, with slight to great differences in doctrines, based on someone’s interpretation.

By the way, how are you assured you’re following the correct interpretation?

I’ll look for your response tomorrow. It’s late here. Have a goodnight.
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It’s late here too… I emigrated from Germany little under a year ago.
I am following what I read in the Bible.
 
I have been into and out of several denominations, beginning with the Lutheran Church. on through Baptist, a short stay with the Jehovah’s Witnesses, and finally a sort of mixture of Christianity with what I consider to be Torah-observant Judaism. It has been a long scriptural search, in conjunction with personal reflection on what has worked for me.

As we just finished our Passover Seder celebration of the plan of salvation as contained in the Seder as it traces through God’s attempts to work with sinful humanity, from Adam and Noah, through Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses and the prophets and finally to the True Jew, Jesus Christ (Yeshua Ha-Maschiach), the Messiah, we did as we did last year at this time: prayed to Jesus, the Jesus of the broken, unleavened bread, wrapped in the aflekomen after the main meal was completed. There were the four questions, the two cups before and two cups after the meal. Our son found the aflekomen with it’s special blessing from Jesus/ He is the Prize. We felt a renewed commitment to the keeping of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit’s Law of Moses, minus, of course, the baked lamb.

Isaiah says that in the new earth will be kept each new moon and each Sabbath (the one Isaiah new about, which was always part of God’s Everlasting Covenant (the second one given on Mt. Sinai after Moses’ second trip up to be with God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
The main body of God’s Laws, Statutes and Judgements remains unchanged if we believe that Jesus was, and is as we came to know Him, the unchanging God. All of God’s feasts and holy convocations remain, unchanged in terms of dates and times, as marked by the new moons.

The Seder celebration is to us a reminder of who our spiritual forefathers were, who God has always been and will always be, the sufferings of the children of Israel, often for their own breaking of God’s entire “New Covenant” (Exodus 34), including the Ten Words (headlines as spelled out in the Statutes and Judgements of God. It is a reminder of the horrific sufferrings of Jesus on the cross. It is a prophecy about the future sufferings of God’s people at the hands of those who would use the force of state power to enforce their dogmas on others who disagree. But, then comes the cup of the Kingdom, the final victory over sin and ha-satan. Yom Tarouha tells us of the coming Trumpet sound, the loud cry of Revelation 18, then Yom Kippur when Jesus followers look deeply inside their souls to find any hidden, secret sin, and seek the power of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit of God, to remove it from our lives/ Then, Yeshua will return after Satan attemps to impersonate the second coming to seek who he may yet ensnare with his lies about God and His word, then the final sound of the Schofar, the trumpet of God, and Jesus’s second appearing

Are Catholics, Lutherans, Methodists, Baptists, Presbyterians, Mormons, Seventh-day Adentists, Mennonites, Quakers, “observing all things whatsoever I have commanded you to observe and do?.” Jesus kept every single one of the annual feasts, and away from Jerusalem, and as far as can be seen, he apparently never had a perfect lamb sacrificed for His sins. He had none for which an animal needed to be sacrificed. The point of all this is that Jesus’ purpose was to graft us into the Olive Tree, Israel. “If you would become Abraham’s seed, do as Abraham did.” When we become a Chrstian, we become a believing Jew, but one whose High Priest intercedes for us in the Most Holy Place in the heavenly Sanctuary, at the right hand of God, His Father. pleading for each of us, our case, and His shed blood.

This is why I am, as they say, “none of the above.”
I pray that Jesus, the “True Jew” (Revelation, 2, vs. 9) will cause His countenance to shine upon you and give you (inner peace).
 
Janet1983 said:
It’s late here too… I emigrated from Germany little under a year ago.
I am following what I read in the Bible.
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Can you please share with me where scriptures teach us to ‘read’ and ‘interpret’ scriptures for ourselves?

Please read Nehemiah 8 and tell me why men of authority over God’s written word, ‘priests’, had to eplain scriptures to the people and cause them to understand?
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
No, I can agree, afterall Martin taught everyone to interpret scriptures for themselves. Once that happened, many didn’t agree with him and started their own Churches. Now we have way too many different Churches, with slight to great differences in doctrines, based on someone’s interpretation.

By the way, how are you assured you’re following the correct interpretation?

I’ll look for your response tomorrow. It’s late here. Have a goodnight.
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Could you please point me to the quote where M Luther told us to interpret the Bible for ourselves?​

How do you know for sure you are following the correct interpretation?
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
Can you please share with me where scriptures teach us to ‘read’ and ‘interpret’ scriptures for ourselves?

Please read Nehemiah 8 and tell me why men of authority over God’s written word, ‘priests’, had to eplain scriptures to the people and cause them to understand?
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Had the Holy Spirit been poured out on the masses in Neh 8?
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
Can you please share with me where scriptures teach us to ‘read’ and ‘interpret’ scriptures for ourselves?

Please read Nehemiah 8 and tell me why men of authority over God’s written word, ‘priests’, had to eplain scriptures to the people and cause them to understand?
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The people in Berea searched the Scriptures to confirm the preaching. I tend to go along with that and search the Scriptures. God did not give us the Bible, so that only a few could understand it.

“Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.” Acts 17:11

The people in Berea interpreted the Scriptures for themselves with the help of the Holy Spirit.
If it hadn’t been impossible to interpret the Scriptures, why else would Jesus chastize the Sadduzees?

"Jesus said to them, “Is this not the reason you are mistaken, that you do not understand the Scriptures or the power of God?” Mark 12:24

Peter’s declaration is clear as well…

“But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation,” 2 Peter 1:20

“Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.” 2 Timothy 2:15

“You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me;” John 5:39

God’s Holy Spirit does the interpreting:

“But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.” John 14:26

“But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.” John 16:13

“which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.” 1 Corinthians 2:13

“Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God,” 1 Corinthians 2:12

Why should we memorize Scripture if we can’t interpret it?

“Your word I have treasured in my heart, that I may not sin against You.” Psalm 119:11

“Keep my commandments and live, and my teaching as the apple of your eye. Bind them on your fingers; Write them on the tablet of your heart.” Proverbs 7:2-3

“These things I have written to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you. As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.” 1 John 2:26-27

Looks pretty clear to me.
 
Janet1983 said:
The people in Berea searched the Scriptures to confirm the preaching. I tend to go along with that and search the Scriptures. God did not give us the Bible, so that only a few could understand it.

“Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.” Acts 17:11
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Paul was sent to preach, with authority. The Bereans searched the scriptures to see if what Paul preached was true. Paul had preached the interpretation. They searched the scriptures and found understanding of those scriptures, according to what Paul had preached to them.

According to your view of the example above, the Bible was the ‘final authority’, yet after searching the ‘final authority’, ‘many’ believed, which indicates not ALL believed.
Janet1983 said:
If it hadn’t been impossible to interpret the Scriptures, why else would Jesus chastize the Sadduzees?

"Jesus said to them, “Is this not the reason you are mistaken, that you do not understand the Scriptures or the power of God?” Mark 12:24
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How are we to take the example of Christ telling people they didn’t understand scriptures to mean, there is a way to understand scriptures? Christ, in affect, was telling them, you did not interpret scriptures correctly.

They had interpreted scriptures to fit their theology, as opposed to fitting their theology to scriptures.
Janet1983 said:
Peter’s declaration is clear as well…

“But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation,” 2 Peter 1:20
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No prophecy is to be spoken from one’s own interpretation. I agree with this.

Reading scriptures within scriptures we see, Peter was very specific about interpreting scriptures incorrectly.
**2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction.
2Pe 3:17 You therefore, brethren, knowing these things before, take heed, lest being led aside by the error of the unwise, you fall from your own steadfastness. **
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We have multiple denominations, with slight to great differences in teachings, based on different interpretations of scriptures. This means, some have wrested the scriptures, to their own destruction. Peter tells us to, ‘take heed, lest being led aside by the error of the unwise.’
Janet1983 said:
“Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.” 2 Timothy 2:15
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This is a common mistake, in my opinion. Many times a Protestant looks for ‘word of God’, or ‘word of truth’, in this instance, and automatically applies it to the written word.
2Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast: and hold the traditions, which you have learned, whether by word or by our epistle.
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Why didn’t Jesus ever write anything? Why didn’t Jesus ever order anything scribed? Because, Jesus was the Word. Jesus didn’t order anything written in the great commission. He ordered them to ‘teach’ and ‘preach’.
Janet1983 said:
God’s Holy Spirit does the interpreting:

“But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.” John 14:26

“But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.” John 16:13
​
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Please start at John 14 and read through 18. Then come back here and tell me who the audience was that Jesus was speaking too? Was it the multitudes, or was it the men He chose and appointed over His Church?
Janet1983 said:
Why should we memorize Scripture if we can’t interpret it?
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No. Memorizing and reasoning scriptures are two different things.

Scriptures have to be read in context; context of times and culture, and in context of who was being spoken too. Christ never instructed the multitudes to ‘teach’ or ‘preach’. When He instructed someone to ‘teach’ or ‘preach’, He was speaking to the men He chose and appointed; appointed authority over His Church.​
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
[Reading scriptures within scriptures we see, Peter was very specific about interpreting scriptures incorrectly.
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This is an interesting commentary on that passage:
The word “private” means one’s own. A prophet cannot speak his own message. Scripture does not come from the prophet himself. The Scriptures did not come from human origin. Scripture is not the human author’s “own thing.” The Bible is reliable because of its source. Scripture is reliable because God is reliable.

The word “interpretation” means unloosing, solving or explanation. Metaphorically, it means “interpretation.” The word can mean the conveying or uttering of a divine proclamation and therefore carries the idea of “produce” or “bring forth.” Scripture does not come from the human author’s explanation of things. It is not a concoction of their own thinking.

The word “is” means to become something that it was not previously. This probably means that the prophets did not originate Scripture. The Holy Spirit originates Scripture, not human authors. He gives the Bible by revelation. This passage is not talking about the interpretation of the Bible but the origin of the Bible. God used human authors to write the Bible but it does not teach their human ideas.

Human authors of Scripture did not put their own spin on Scriptures. The Bible is not man’s ideas about God.
“You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me” (John 5:39).
The word “any” means “no” — not even one. Every single Scripture came from God and not men. No Scripture springs from the mind of the human author. No single passage of Scripture stands by itself. It must be understood in its context.

The Bible also needs to be understood as a whole. We must understand doctrine in light of all of Scripture’s teaching. We call this “theology.” We cannot take passages we do not like and ignore them. We must include the entire body of truth from God to form a proper theology. This will deliver us from error.

Every passage of Scripture has one interpretation but many applications. If we give the idea that an application is an interpretation, we misrepresent what God says.

versebyversecommentary.com/1998/06/03/2-peter-120b/
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Funny how people use passage like these and say we cannot interpret Scriptures by ourselves in any circumstances, and that we should blindly obey the Church. Obviously, this is not what the Bereans did. They were more noble because they didn’t blindly accept what they have been taught, but searched the Scriptures to see if it was true. According to some, we shouldn’t do that, and we should blindly accept the Church’s teachings. Did I say something wrong?
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loneviking said:
Why? Because I believe that the RCC takes basic Biblical beliefs much farther than is warrented by the Scriptures. As a Lutheran, we share much in common with you folks. But, although (for example) we acknowledge, respect and learn from the ‘communion of saints’, we do not ask them to intercede for us as that something we do not find in the Bible. I find the Lutheran confessions and approach to Scripture to be correct, and so I’m not RCC.
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Amen Amen I say to You
 
Cristian_B said:
This is an interesting commentary on that passage:
The word “private” means one’s own. A prophet cannot speak his own message. Scripture does not come from the prophet himself. The Scriptures did not come from human origin. Scripture is not the human author’s “own thing.” The Bible is reliable because of its source. Scripture is reliable because God is reliable.

The word “interpretation” means unloosing, solving or explanation. Metaphorically, it means “interpretation.” The word can mean the conveying or uttering of a divine proclamation and therefore carries the idea of “produce” or “bring forth.” Scripture does not come from the human author’s explanation of things. It is not a concoction of their own thinking.

The word “is” means to become something that it was not previously. This probably means that the prophets did not originate Scripture. The Holy Spirit originates Scripture, not human authors. He gives the Bible by revelation. This passage is not talking about the interpretation of the Bible but the origin of the Bible. God used human authors to write the Bible but it does not teach their human ideas.

Human authors of Scripture did not put their own spin on Scriptures. The Bible is not man’s ideas about God.
“You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me” (John 5:39).
The word “any” means “no” — not even one. Every single Scripture came from God and not men. No Scripture springs from the mind of the human author. No single passage of Scripture stands by itself. It must be understood in its context.

The Bible also needs to be understood as a whole. We must understand doctrine in light of all of Scripture’s teaching. We call this “theology.” We cannot take passages we do not like and ignore them. We must include the entire body of truth from God to form a proper theology. This will deliver us from error.

Every passage of Scripture has one interpretation but many applications. If we give the idea that an application is an interpretation, we misrepresent what God says.

versebyversecommentary.com/1998/06/03/2-peter-120b/
​
Funny how people use passage like these and say we cannot interpret Scriptures by ourselves in any circumstances, and that we should blindly obey the Church. Obviously, this is not what the Bereans did. They were more noble because they didn’t blindly accept what they have been taught, but searched the Scriptures to see if it was true. According to some, we shouldn’t do that, and we should blindly accept the Church’s teachings. Did I say something wrong?
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What’s funny, is how people search for a ‘like minded’ commentary so they can fit scriptures to their theology, as opposed to fitting their theology to scriptures.

Scriptures tell us the pillar and ground of truth and where the manifold wisdom of God maybe found and that the unlearned, unstable and unwise can wrest scriptures, even to their destruction. Those speak clearly, without any ‘tap dancing’.

The Bereans were ‘more noble’ than the people of Thessalonica. Read Acts 17:1 - 10 and see how they were received.
Act 17:11 **Now these were more noble than those in Thessalonica, who received the word **with all eagerness, daily searching the scriptures, whether these things were so.
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The word they received was the PREACHING from Paul. He gave them the interpretation and they searched the scriptures to see whether those things were true. These people knew scriptures, but did not know the correct interpretation until Paul preached it to them. There was no new Testament, they were searching the scriptures that spoke of the Messiah.

You believe, all one needs is the scriptures and they can understand. What about the Ethiopican eunuch in Acts 8? He had the scriptures and was reading them. Philip asked if he understood what he was reading. The eunuch replied, ‘: And how can I, unless some man shew me?’ Philip PREACHED Jesus to the eunuch and the eunuch was baptized, because then he believed. It took an Apostle, an authoritative man of the Church, to explain scriptures to him.

If you search the internet hard enough, I’m sure you find someone who will dispute that story too…
 
I had left the Catholic Church when I was young in, what I thought, was to search for a “better Church”. Well, “better Church” is a relative term especially on how you define “better Church”. Well, when I was young, I was a spoiled rotten brat “who could do no wrong” (in my parent’s eyes at least), so responsibility was something I avoided at all costs. The Catholic Church seemed to be imposing upon the Christian to be a responsible Christian and I wanted no part of that.

Well, God allows us to learn the lessons we need to learn by allowing us to face the consequences of our choices; and I was no exception to that rule.

After I started to learn to be more responsible, I started to Church Hop as I continued to make progress in my own personal growth with Christ I had to find a Church that was more responsible.

I heard the Lord Christ Jesus call me back home to the Catholic Church.

Well, regardless of my resistance to some of the Catholic Church’s teachings, I had to obey Christ, so I went home to the Catholic Church.

Since then I engaged deep into study until eventually I was teaching both RCIA and Scripture Study.

But to finally get around to responding to the question; I don’t get it…if you are a non-Catholic Christian, then why aren’t you a Catholic Christian?

God reaches people in different ways; not only with my own experience, but I have heard the testimonial of many others where they found Christ somewhere else besides the Roman Catholic Church and some even end up – eventually – coming into the Roman Catholic Church either by being led there by the Bible or by Divine Grace of God, but most of the time both as in my case.
 
Why would I want to abandon a walk which is full, and constantly feeds me, a DEEP relationship with Jesus, to become a “cafeteria catholic?” too many things I disagree with to convert! I love debating catholics though! A lot of them think that they are right, and the ONLY true church of Jesus!:cool:
 
1beleevr said:
Why would I want to abandon a walk which is full, and constantly feeds me, a DEEP relationship with Jesus, to become a “cafeteria catholic?” too many things I disagree with to convert! I love debating catholics though! A lot of them think that they are right, and the ONLY true church of Jesus!:cool:
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{underlining mine}

If they didn’t think that Catholicism wasn’t the one true church, then why would they be catholic? “I believe in one Holy catholic and apostolic church…” I would say they all believe that, and if you don’t believe that about your faith, there’s something wrong.
 
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