I don't get it...if you are a non-Catholic Christian, then why aren't you a Catholic Christian?

[Prodigal_Son1]

Well, then, let me ask you this: Do you believe, that as Christians and followers of Christ, we are charged with making disciples, as He instructed the twelve in Matthew 28:19-20? Once we are taught, should we not teach others? Didn’t Jesus say,“You will be my witnesses?” When I witness to others, with my personal testimony, about what Christ has done in my life, I believe that I am showing them Jesus! And do you have scripture that says we are not to teach others? What about when Jesus was teaching the multitudes, such as in the Sermon on The Mount; the Beatitudes? Because I am filled with the Holy Spirit, I have been empowered to share Jesus with others.

Let me help you with Matthew 28, but let’s take the passage you’re quoting and put it into context by adding a few verses you’re leaving out.

Mat 28:16 And the eleven disciples went into Galilee, unto the mountain where Jesus had appointed them.
Mat 28:17 And seeing him they adored: but some doubted.
Mat 28:18 And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth.
Mat 28:19 Going therefore, teach ye all nations: baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you. And behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.

 

[1beleevr]

Again, reading Matthew 28 in context, who is Christ speaking too? I see those He chose and appointed over His Church.

Don’t get me wrong. We are to share that joy which is within us, but we were not chosen and appointed by Christ, or those of Apostolic succession. God set the Apostles, the prophets, the doctors. Show me anywhere in scriptures that a person ‘empowered’ themself without being appointed by Christ or those He appointed.

The sermon on the Mount is a good example of the ‘multitudes’. Show me the scriptures where Christ ‘appointed’ a multitude, or commanded them to go out and ‘teach’ or ‘preach’.

But those twelve have died, and God appoints others to lead and teach us! And I hate to burst your bubble, but those people are not only in the catholic church! We are all(Christians, that is) are able to witness for Christ, and lead others to Him, by planting seeds!

 

[1beleevr]

Then you are reading something out of context of the story. No one in scriptures appointed themself such as you are claiming we can do. It appears to be a man made tradition, that is not supported by scriptures.

You haven’t told me who Christ was speaking to in John 14 through 18?

And do you also believe that Jesus was only speaking to the disciples, when He said, “If you love Me, you will keep my Commandments?” And I haven’t appointed myself; my Saviour has sent me! John 14 through 18, was to the original audience, and they passed it down to us, and some catholics also. But see, you are having a difficult time convincing me that the priests today, are in the so called apostolic succession!

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

But those twelve have died, and God appoints others to lead and teach us! And I hate to burst your bubble, but those people are not only in the catholic church! We are all(Christians, that is) are able to witness for Christ, and lead others to Him, by planting seeds!

Being condescending does not change my mind in anyway, so don’t fear about bursting a bubble.

Those Christ appointed, appointed others. It’s called Apostolic succession. Those Apostles understood they must fulfill scriptures by filling vacated offices and doing everything He commanded them, they took care of business.

Act 1:16 Men, brethren, the scripture must needs be fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost spoke before by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who was the leader of them that apprehended Jesus:
Act 1:17 Who was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.
Act 1:18 And he indeed hath possessed a field of the reward of iniquity, and being hanged, burst asunder in the midst: and all his bowels gushed out.
Act 1:19 And it became known to all the inhabitants of Jerusalem: so that the same field was called in their tongue, Haceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.
Act 1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms: Let their habitation become desolate, and let there be none to dwell therein. And his bishopric let another take.

Tit 1:5 For this cause I left thee in Crete: that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting and shouldest ordain priests in every city, as I also appointed thee

Show me in scriptures where anyone ‘appointed’ themself, or ‘empowered’ themself to be a teacher or a preacher?

 

[1beleevr]

Let me help you with Matthew 28, but let’s take the passage you’re quoting and put it into context by adding a few verses you’re leaving out.

Believe it or not, I read all of these scriptures, before I got your post! I still cannot see the benefit of being a catholic Christian!

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

And do you also believe that Jesus was only speaking to the disciples, when He said, “If you love Me, you will keep my Commandments?” And I haven’t appointed myself; my Saviour has sent me! John 14 through 18, was to the original audience, and they passed it down to us, and some catholics also. But see, you are having a difficult time convincing me that the priests today, are in the so called apostolic succession!

Again, we are blessed to know those things He commanded them to teach us. We are to love Him, each other and keep His commandments. We cannot however, appoint ourself to a position over His Church. It’s not in scriptures anywhere that someone appointed themself.

Scriptures tell us the Church is the pillar and ground of truth, the place where the manifold wisdom of God maybe made known and the place Christ taught for disputes to be taken. Why wasn’t this said of scriptures, if we all have our ‘own’ authority to pick up scriptures and ‘empower’ ourselves?

 

[1beleevr]

Being condescending does not change my mind in anyway, so don’t fear about bursting a bubble.

Those Christ appointed, appointed others. It’s called Apostolic succession. Those Apostles understood they must fulfill scriptures by filling vacated offices and doing everything He commanded them, they took care of business.

Show me in scriptures where anyone ‘appointed’ themself, or ‘empowered’ themself to be a teacher or a preacher?

Interesting that you would see that as being condescending, when catholics practice the same thing in this forum(well, not all catholics). And I never said that anyone empowered or appointed themselves, but do you not believe that God can empower ANYONE to teach and to share the gospel? What do you think we are doing when we do street ministry, and outreaches for Christ? Ever participated in something like that?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Believe it or not, I read all of these scriptures, before I got your post! I still cannot see the benefit of being a catholic Christian!

Let’s put the shoe on the other foot here. Show me the benefit of ‘appointing myself to authority’ and being a Protestant by using scriptures, in context?

 

[1beleevr]

Being condescending does not change my mind in anyway, so don’t fear about bursting a bubble.

Those Christ appointed, appointed others. It’s called Apostolic succession. Those Apostles understood they must fulfill scriptures by filling vacated offices and doing everything He commanded them, they took care of business.

Show me in scriptures where anyone ‘appointed’ themself, or ‘empowered’ themself to be a teacher or a preacher?

What do any of these verses from Acts have to do with Christ giving others the authority to preach and teach?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Interesting that you would see that as being condescending, when catholics practice the same thing in this forum(well, not all catholics). And I never said that anyone empowered or appointed themselves, but do you not believe that God can empower ANYONE to teach and to share the gospel? What do you think we are doing when we do street ministry, and outreaches for Christ? Ever participated in something like that?

Oh, well if you see people on here being condescending, I guess you have every right to…no, two wrongs don’t make a right.

I am using the scriptures to support my view. You are rejecting the view, without scriptures???

It’s simple, show me in the scriptures of anyone who appointed themself, or made themselfs Apostles, prophets or teachers?

1Co 12:27 Now you are the body of Christ and members of member.
1Co 12:28 And God indeed hath set some in the church; first apostles, secondly prophets, thirdly doctors: after that miracles: then the graces of healings, helps, governments, kinds of tongues, interpretations of speeches.
1Co 12:29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all doctors?
1Co 12:30 Are all workers of miracles? Have all the grace of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?

God set the hierarchy, as shown in the passage above.

**1Ti 3:1 A faithful saying: If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth good work.

1Ti 3:8 Deacons in like manner: chaste, not double tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre:

1Ti 5:17 Let the priests that rule well be esteemed worthy of double honour: especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

1Ti 4:14 Neglect not the grace that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with imposition of the hands of the priesthood.

1Ti 5:22 Impose not hands lightly upon any man, neither be partaker of other men’s sins. Keep thyself chaste.

Act 14:23 (14:22) And when they had ordained to them priests in every church and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, in whom they believed.

2Ti 2:2 And the things which thou hast heard of me by many witnesses, the same commend to faithful men who shall be fit to teach others also.

Tit 1:5 For this cause I left thee in Crete: that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting and shouldest ordain priests in every city, as I also appointed thee**

Scriptures show us there were specific requirements that needed to be met for one to have an office, and that the appointed men, appointed others.

**Heb 13:17 Obey your prelates and be subject to them. For they watch as being to render an account of your souls: that they may do this with joy and not with grief. For this is not expedient for you. **

Obey your prelates and be subject to them? Are you obeying your prelates and being subject to them, or have you appointed yourself as a ‘prelate’?

 

[1beleevr]

Let’s put the shoe on the other foot here. Show me the benefit of ‘appointing myself to authority’ and being a Protestant by using scriptures, in context?

That does not sufficiently answer my question, but one thing I have as a nondenominational Christian, is freedom from rituals and strict adherence to the Law, also known as legalism!

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

What do any of these verses from Acts have to do with Christ giving others the authority to preach and teach?

I take it you are serious. In Acts 1, we see the replacement of Judas’ office of bishop, as the Apostles stated, ‘scriptures must be fulfilled’. The other scriptures show people were appointed, by those with authority.

I’ve asked you multiple times to show me anyone who took it upon theirself, but you provide no scriptures to support that view.

 

[1beleevr]

Oh, well if you see people on here being condescending, I guess you have every right to…no, two wrongs don’t make a right.

I am using the scriptures to support my view. You are rejecting the view, without scriptures???

It’s simple, show me in the scriptures of anyone who appointed themself, or made themselfs Apostles, prophets or teachers?

God set the hierarchy, as shown in the passage above.

Scriptures show us there were specific requirements that needed to be met for one to have an office, and that the appointed men, appointed others.

Obey your prelates and be subject to them? Are you obeying your prelates and being subject to them, or have you appointed yourself as a ‘prelate’?

What I’m having trouble finding, is scripture which says that all priests, prelates,deacons, etc are catholic! This tells me that God ordains, and we do not appoint ourselves!

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

That does not sufficiently answer my question, but one thing I have as a nondenominational Christian, is freedom from rituals and strict adherence to the Law, also known as legalism!

I have the benefit of serving Him as He wants to be served and not serving Him as I am willing to serve Him…

The rituals and ‘legalism’ is scriptural. What you’ve been preaching, well you haven’t provided any scriptures to support it…

And, we’re in, what is supposed to be an honest discussion. I have answered many questions, provided scriptures, and explanations. You have only answered questions, with snide remarks against Catholicism and more questions.

 

[1beleevr]

I take it you are serious. In Acts 1, we see the replacement of Judas’ office of bishop, as the Apostles stated, ‘scriptures must be fulfilled’. The other scriptures show people were appointed, by those with authority.

I’ve asked you multiple times to show me anyone who took it upon theirself, but you provide no scriptures to support that view.

And, how do we know that Judas was a bishop?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

What I’m having trouble finding, is scripture which says that all priests, prelates,deacons, etc are catholic! This tells me that God ordains, and we do not appoint ourselves!

**Acts 9:31

(IGNT+) αιG3588 THE μενG3303 INDEED ουνG3767 THEN εκκλησιαιG1577 ASSEMBLIES καθG2596 THROUGHOUT οληςG3650 WHOLE τηςG3588 THE ιουδαιαςG2449 OF JUDEA καιG2532 AND γαλιλαιαςG1056 GALILEE καιG2532 AND σαμαρειαςG4540 SAMARIA ειχονG2192 [G5707] HAD ειρηνηνG1515 PEACE, οικοδομουμεναιG3618 [G5746] BEING BUILT UP καιG2532 AND πορευομεναιG4198 [G5740] GOING ON τωG3588 IN THE φοβωG5401 FEAR τουG3588 OF THE κυριουG2962 LORD, καιG2532 AND τηG3588 IN THE παρακλησειG3874 COMFORT τουG3588 OF THE αγιουG40 HOLY πνευματοςG4151 SPIRIT επληθυνοντοG4129 [G5712] WERE INCREASED.

G2596
κατά
kata
kat-ah’
A primary particle; (preposition) down (in place or time), in varied relations (according to the case [genitive, dative or accusative] with which it is joined): - about, according as (to), after, against, (when they were) X alone, among, and, X apart, (even, like) as (concerning, pertaining to, touching), X aside, at, before, beyond, by, to the charge of, [charita-] bly, concerning, + covered, [dai-] ly, down, every, (+ far more) exceeding, X more excellent, for, from . . . to, godly, in (-asmuch, divers, every, -to, respect of), . . . by, after the manner of, + by any means, beyond (out of) measure, X mightily, more, X natural, of (up-) on (X part), out (of every), over against, (+ your) X own, + particularly, so, through (-oughout, -oughout every), thus, (un-) to (-gether, -ward), X uttermost, where (-by), with. In composition it retains many of these applications, and frequently denotes opposition, distribution or intensity.

G3650
ὅλος
holos
hol’-os
A primary word; “whole” or “all”, that is, complete (in extent, amount, time or degree), especially (neuter) as noun or adverb: - all, altogether, every whit, + throughout, whole.

kata holos
kat-ah’ hol’-os
Catholic is an adjective derived from the Greek adjective καθολικός (katholikos), meaning “universal”.**

Now, do you have some evidence of another Church?

 

[1beleevr]

I have the benefit of serving Him as He wants to be served and not serving Him as I am willing to serve Him…

The rituals and ‘legalism’ is scriptural. What you’ve been preaching, well you haven’t provided any scriptures to support it…

And, we’re in, what is supposed to be an honest discussion. I have answered many questions, provided scriptures, and explanations. You have only answered questions, with snide remarks against Catholicism and more questions.

I am privileged to serve my King, as He desires! And Before you fall off of your high horse, be advised that there are many in this forum, who make equally snide remarks about non catholics! Show me where legalism and such things as praying through Mary, and having crucifixes is scriptural!

 

[1beleevr]

**Acts 9:31

(IGNT+) αιG3588 THE μενG3303 INDEED ουνG3767 THEN εκκλησιαιG1577 ASSEMBLIES καθG2596 THROUGHOUT οληςG3650 WHOLE τηςG3588 THE ιουδαιαςG2449 OF JUDEA καιG2532 AND γαλιλαιαςG1056 GALILEE καιG2532 AND σαμαρειαςG4540 SAMARIA ειχονG2192 [G5707] HAD ειρηνηνG1515 PEACE, οικοδομουμεναιG3618 [G5746] BEING BUILT UP καιG2532 AND πορευομεναιG4198 [G5740] GOING ON τωG3588 IN THE φοβωG5401 FEAR τουG3588 OF THE κυριουG2962 LORD, καιG2532 AND τηG3588 IN THE παρακλησειG3874 COMFORT τουG3588 OF THE αγιουG40 HOLY πνευματοςG4151 SPIRIT επληθυνοντοG4129 [G5712] WERE INCREASED.

G2596
κατά
kata
kat-ah’
A primary particle; (preposition) down (in place or time), in varied relations (according to the case [genitive, dative or accusative] with which it is joined): - about, according as (to), after, against, (when they were) X alone, among, and, X apart, (even, like) as (concerning, pertaining to, touching), X aside, at, before, beyond, by, to the charge of, [charita-] bly, concerning, + covered, [dai-] ly, down, every, (+ far more) exceeding, X more excellent, for, from . . . to, godly, in (-asmuch, divers, every, -to, respect of), . . . by, after the manner of, + by any means, beyond (out of) measure, X mightily, more, X natural, of (up-) on (X part), out (of every), over against, (+ your) X own, + particularly, so, through (-oughout, -oughout every), thus, (un-) to (-gether, -ward), X uttermost, where (-by), with. In composition it retains many of these applications, and frequently denotes opposition, distribution or intensity.

G3650
ὅλος
holos
hol’-os
A primary word; “whole” or “all”, that is, complete (in extent, amount, time or degree), especially (neuter) as noun or adverb: - all, altogether, every whit, + throughout, whole.

kata holos
kat-ah’ hol’-os
Catholic is an adjective derived from the Greek adjective καθολικός (katholikos), meaning “universal”.**

Now, do you have some evidence of another Church?

No, and neither do you!

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

And, how do we know that Judas was a bishop?

Are you reading any of the scriptures I am posting for your convenience? Read the underlined verse below.

Act 1:13 And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode Peter and John, James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James of Alpheus and Simon Zelotes and Jude the brother of James.
Act 1:14 All these were persevering with one mind in prayer with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.
Act 1:15 In those days Peter rising up in the midst of the brethren, said (now the number of persons together was about an hundred and twenty):
Act 1:16 Men, brethren, the scripture must needs be fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost spoke before by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who was the leader of them that apprehended Jesus:
Act 1:17 Who was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.
Act 1:18 And he indeed hath possessed a field of the reward of iniquity, and being hanged, burst asunder in the midst: and all his bowels gushed out.
Act 1:19 And it became known to all the inhabitants of Jerusalem: so that the same field was called in their tongue, Haceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.
Act 1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms: Let their habitation become desolate, and let there be none to dwell therein. And his bishopric let another take.

 

[todd_vetter]

http://fratres.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/pope-benedict-xvi-blessing-of-the-host.jpg
I don’t get it…if you are a non-Catholic Christian, then why aren’t you a Catholic Christian?
This is a serious question, so please post your reason here… Please, don’t be afraid to voice your opinion and to defend your own particular denomination.
I am not the only Catholic here at CAF, or elsewhere, who wonders and wants to know the answer to this question.
If any Catholics, or any converts to Catholicism here, have any insight to the answer, or possible answer(s) to this question, then please post a response here.
Your thoughts?

Jesus tells us there is really only two denominations that exist. Wheat or tares and we are all growing in the same field. The wheat are in spirit and in truth. The tares do not bare good fruit. We are however not to uproot the tares or we uproot the wheat. The tares do have bits and peices of truth, just not the full truth of the spirit of God from God.

Only God can cause a wheat to bare good fruit since no one bares good fruit of themselves.

Denominational names are simply a creation of man to symbolize a differing version of Christian confusion due to spiritual famine.

God Bless