I don't get it...if you are a non-Catholic Christian, then why aren't you a Catholic Christian?

[Prodigal_Son1]

Belonging to the Church cannot save you…

Salvation is only through Christ. The manifold wisdom of God maybe made known through the Church, which is the pillar and ground of truth.

Church tradition does not equal the Bible…

Christ established a Church, that those appointed within wrote the New Testament, in that order. Scriptures tell us to hold to the traditions taught, whether by word or epistle. Care to show me where scriptures state they are the ‘sole authority’?

Sex was not designed only for procreation…

Show us the scriptures for this statment.

Sex was not the original sin; it was PRIDE…

God must be in your heart, not in your rituals…

You don’t think God can be in both?

The Church has replaced the Holy Spirit’s guidance…

The men of the Church received the promises of Holy Spirit guidance. Care to provide scriptures where the multitudes were promised this?

The traditions of men invented most Catholic beliefs…

A lot of discussion in this accusation. How do you feel about the man made, non scriptural, tradition that the Bible is the sole authority? What about the man made, against scriptures, teaching that we are to interpret scriptures for ourselves, individually?

There is no purgatory, only salvation and damnation…

According to your private interpretation. Even if you don’t agree with the interpretation, this belief is scriptural.

Demons are pretending to be the “saints” worshipped…

Is ‘anti-Catholicism’ something you found? What are you talking about? We know about ‘wolves in sheep’s clothing’ and we know we have to discern spirits. It seems you have a ‘chip on your shoulder against the Church’.

The Church cannot replace a personal relationship with Christ…

Try ‘weism’ instead of ‘meism’. Christ is for everyone. The Church is the body of Christ which He is the head of. He gave us the Church and Catholic cherish everything He gave us.

Catholicism has always been based on demonic pagan religions…

Very broad statement, especially in light of no specific evidences or proofs. You seem to be totally misled here.

Catholicism is not Biblical -

It is very scriptural, even if you disagree with the interpretation.

Woe to those who follow after man’s religions and falsify God’s Truth.
They will have no part in God’s Kingdom and will not be counted among
the living.

Careful. It’s starting to sound as if you are judging something you can only see with your eye.

Listen, JimmyH, if you wish to discuss anything. Be specific, limit posts to one subject at a time, provide resources to support your view and most of all, lose what appears to be a judgmental and condescending tone. Catholics will discuss any subject, but we cannot respond properly to such a list of objections, especially unqualified ‘snippets’ with no explanations and no documentation to support such vague little statements.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I was drug into Catholicism by my parents till I was 17 and uselessly baptized as an infant, went to catholic school till the 11th grade, I think maybe what turned me off the most was my younger brother was an alter boy as was I and was fondled by our priest and caught doing it by a parishioner and the church did nothing about it, well not nothing they shunned myself and family, thats when I started to realize the Catholic church was condoning petaphilia.
So I figured any organization that would sit back and watch this happen could not be in the truth.
And I am sure you will all have an excuse, maybe it was my 13 year old brothers fault for looking to sexy to the Homosexual priest of the holy Catholic church, who led us in prayer, who I confessed my child hood sins too

I am sorry to hear what happened to your brother.

You cannot, or shouldn’t, judge an entire Church and it’s clergy for the sinful actions of a ‘few’ within the Church. You realize that pedophilia is without boundaries and happens in ALL Churches and secular insitutions? The entire Catholic Church in no way condones pedophilia.

Who was sinless that Christ built His Church upon?

 

[StMarkStLuke983]

As I read through this thread, I discovered, repeatedly, a list of objections against the Roman Catholic Church, but I dismiised the list of objections since none of the list is based in any Biblical, Church or historical fact whatsoever; it was nothing more than just Anti-Catholic Propaganda which can easily be divided into one of 4 catagories and only into 4 catagories.

Anti-Catholic Propaganda 1) with respect to the **correct interpretation of Scripture **CONTRADICTS SCRIPTURE! 2) contradicts true Roman Catholic Church Reality 3) Contradicts true Christian History 4) or is some varient combination of the first three.

Conversely, most Catholic Apologists have accumulated a long list of grievances against Protestantism, known as Protestant stumpers, that no Protestant has ever been able to answer for.

According to Protestant Reformer Martin Luther; under private interpretation or private judgment of Scriptures, there is no such thing as infallibly interpreting Scriptures because (as Martin Luther continued) there is no such thing as divine guidance of the Holy Spirit because any such divine guidance violate and does violance to “Bible Alone”.
(Protestant Reformer Martin Luther in his article of Gettenburg Project pub. 1521AD)

What Bible Alone really is is the refusal of Divine Guidance!

I have met many a Protestant in my day, but not one, no, not even one was a true adherent to “Bible Alone”. Apparently this Bible Alone is sometimes there and sometimes not there. I guess Bible Alone only applies to Catholics because it definitely does not apply to Protestants.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

The Pope has become an idol…

As I was previewing my responses to you from earlier this morning, I noticed I had made a mistake and said ‘correct’ to this statement. I had meant this is incorrect.

The Pope is the leader of the Catholic Church, an Apostolic successor to Peter and his office as he was chosen and appointed by Christ.

Apologies for the mistake, but that can happen from being tired, or trying to respond to such a very long list of objections.

 

[JimmyH]

They don’t understand the faith. The new poster shows an evidence of this in his post. Of course, to be perfectly honest,** I wonder if that poster was really a Catholic at all by the many misconceptions listed in their post**. But, they’ve come to the right place to learn the truth, instead of those misconceptions. It shows the dangers of ‘private interpretation’ of scriptures really.

Are you going to provide the scriptures to support your view that I requested?

AWW there it is Catholicism/jehovah witness/slash most other religions/cults bend the scriptures to follow a man made doctrine, the truth in the bible can’t simply be told it takes a catholic such as yourself to explain what the bible is really saying.

Show me the scripture where the lord requests you to bow down and pray to anyone other than him.

lets start there for my first lesson

 

[JimmyH]

As I was previewing my responses to you from earlier this morning, I noticed I had made a mistake and said ‘correct’ to this statement. I had meant this is incorrect.

The Pope is the leader of the Catholic Church, an Apostolic successor to Peter and his office as he was chosen and appointed by Christ.

Apologies for the mistake, but that can happen from being tired, or trying to respond to such a very long list of objections.

So when everyone in rome is starving and bowing down to the pope in his golden palace and attire they are not worshiping him? I guess we need to define the word worship

 

[JimmyH]

History is on my side on this one.

Here’s a writing from St. Ignatius from around 106 to 110AD (about the same time as Revelations was written), before the canon of the New Testament was defined.

St. Ignatius doesn’t explain the term, he uses it, it was already understood what the Catholic Church was.

Do you have any evidence, besides the ‘snipes’, which are no more than your opinion, to support any other Churches in existence?

I think we should stick to quoting the bible

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

AWW there it is Catholicism/jehovah witness/slash most other religions/cults bend the scriptures to follow a man made doctrine, the truth in the bible can’t simply be told it takes a catholic such as yourself to explain what the bible is really saying.

Show me the scripture where the lord requests you to bow down and pray to anyone other than him.

lets start there for my first lesson

First, let me recommend you read the rules of the forum. If you continue on your current path, I don’t expect to see you much longer. All posters must be respectful of the Catholic faith. Besides the rules of the forum, I believe Christianity requires a certain charitability.

Now, you are mistaken, as well as unclear. Is your objection with intercessory prayer? What is the difference in asking those who are already eternally alive to pray for us and asking someone on earth to pray for us?

**1Ti 2:1 I desire therefore, first of all, that supplications, prayers, intercessions and thanksgivings be made for all men:

Rev 5:8 And when he had opened the book, the four living creatures and the four and twenty ancients fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.**

Who are the 24 ancients presenting our prayers to the Lord?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

So when everyone in rome is starving and bowing down to the pope in his golden palace and attire they are not worshiping him? I guess we need to define the word worship

No they are not worshipping the Pope, in the Vatican established as center of the Church long before He came along.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I think we should stick to quoting the bible

Why?

And it doens’t matter. We can go that route if you want.

Let’s start by you providing where scriptures tell us that the Bible is the ‘sole authority’, or ‘final authority’?

Also, provide the scriptures teaching us to interpret them for ourselves…

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

AWW there it is Catholicism/jehovah witness/slash most other religions/cults bend the scriptures to follow a man made doctrine, the truth in the bible can’t simply be told it takes a catholic such as yourself to explain what the bible is really saying.

Show all of us the scriptures that make the scriptures the ‘final authority’, or is that a man made tradition that is not scriptural?

 

[Janet1983]

Why?

And it doens’t matter. We can go that route if you want.

Let’s start by you providing where scriptures tell us that the Bible is the ‘sole authority’, or ‘final authority’?

Also, provide the scriptures teaching us to interpret them for ourselves…

I thought you were trying to disprove him, not the other way round… he has misconceptions and he will probably stick to those until someone proves them to be wrong…

 

[JimmyH]

But what is faith without works?

MMM let me think about that a second, thats a good one Son, I know it’s only by the grace of god we are saved. We are saved by grace alone, through faith alone in Christ (Ephesians 1:4-6).

Oh ok I know now the thief on the cross next to jesus had no works, well unless thievery, murder rape, molestation and so on are considered “works”
Yet his faith in the lord Jesus Christ saved him

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I thought you were trying to disprove him, not the other way round… he has misconceptions and he will probably stick to those until someone proves them to be wrong…

When someone demands to use only the Bible, then they should at the very least show where that scriptures state the Bible is the only authority. Also, please note, I said I am prepared to go with only the Bible. It is my hope that one is at least honest to recognize that Catholic beliefs are scriptural, even if they do not agree with the interpretation.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

MMM let me think about that a second, thats a good one Son, I know it’s only by the grace of god we are saved. We are saved by grace alone, through faith alone in Christ (Ephesians 1:4-6).

Oh ok I know now the thief on the cross next to jesus had no works, well unless thievery, murder rape, molestation and so on are considered “works”
Yet his faith in the lord Jesus Christ saved him

Let me explain what works actually is, in my humble opinion.

Faith is a gift from God, works is our response to God’s love, confessing Him before others, praying, reading scriptures, attending Church, loving others as He loved us, etc. etc. etc. Simply put, it’s living one’s Christianity 24/7, 365(6) days a year.

The thief had the opportunity to profess Christ as Lord and in the Catholic Church, it’s taught that we are judged according to our heart’s desire and those things that are outside our control to prevent us from accomplishing. Such as the thief believed and died very shortly afterwards. There was very little he could do.

Now, another suggestion, since you’re new here. We need to stay with topics and start new threads for new discussions. Everyone here is willing to join you on any topic you choose, if you wish to start a thread. Just send those a link, pm and they’ll be more than happy to explain Catholicism to you.

It would also be in your favor to lose the attitude. I am not your enemy and even if we were enemies, Christ taught to love one’s enemy.

 

[Dokimas]

Doki, you are creating false dichotomies. You are setting the graces received in baptism “against” the love and mercy of Jesus. The two are not contrary. Baptism is the manner in which Jesus instructed us to use, through which his love, grace, and mercy would flow. “Baptism…now saves you”. It is the expiating blood of Jesus shed on the cross that saves us. Baptism is the manner in which this grace is applied to us.

Acctually you appear to turn the love of Jesus into a ritual. Should not be, IMO.

 

[1beleevr]

Simply and honestly, I am and have been a non-catholic Christian for 43 years, because I have not found sufficient reasons to become a catholic Christian! God bless!

 

[Dokimas]

One of the evidences of understanding is that you are able to articulate the opposite position. You do not seem to understand why Catholics baptize infants. It may be that your concept of original sin has departed from what the Apostles believed and taught.

So I can’t know that 2 + 2 = 4 unless I understand why 2 + 2 isn’t = 9?​

BTW, I’ve see plenty of misunderstandings about the non-catholic Christian positions here on CAF. Does that mean that those who don’t understand us can’t know the truth of the CC?​

BTW, there seems to be differing opinions about why infants should be baptized from different catholics on this board. Interesting in light of your assessment of me, if my observation is correct

 

[PeaceSerenity]

So I can’t know that 2 + 2 = 4 unless I understand why 2 + 2 isn’t = 9?

No you can’t, I agree with Guanophore because if you don’t understand why 2+2 isn’t = 9 then all you’ve done is memorized that 2+2=4. In order to be truly firm in your beliefs, you need to have enough knowledge to argue the position of the opposition. You need to be fully informed about the beliefs of both sides to make a decision.

 

[Dokimas]

Mary chose not to sin, just like we all can. It was easier for her because she did not have the sin nature. She did not have the struggle that St. Paul writes about in Rom. 7

No offense meant to the wonderful mother of Jesus, but Mary was not born without original sin, IMO. There is no credible Bible evidence to prove your assertion, IMO.​

Jesus needed a willing human woman, not a sinless one. If He only chooses sinless people to dwell in, we’re in trouble, big trouble.