P
PeaceSerenity
Guest
Wow, I never thought I would agree with you
I am in shock
I don't get it...if you are a non-Catholic Christian, then why aren't you a Catholic Christian?
- Status
I am in shock
D
Dokimas
Guest
IMO, there’s not credible evidence baptism replace circumcism. Did you know there was baptism in the OT? The OT had both circumcision and baptism.
ariel.org/qa.htm
Q:I have been told that baptism is a Jewish practice. If so, what did it mean to a Jewish person?
A:To answer your question, baptism was a common Jewish practice long before it became a Christian practice. The basic Hebrew meaning of baptism is identification. When one was baptized he identified himself with a person, and/or message, and/or group. In Judaism, when a Gentile underwent the process of conversion to Judaism, he would also be baptized and, by so doing, would identify himself with Judaism and the Jewish people. Those who were being baptized by John were identifying themselves with John’s repentance movement and with the message he was proclaiming concerning the soon coming of the King. By being baptized by John, they were making a commitment that whomever John declared Messiah to be, they would accept Him as the Messiah.
In believer’s baptism we identify ourselves with the death, burial and resurrection of Messiah.
1
1beleevr
Guest
Make it three of us; I agree also!Wow, I never thought I would agree with you
P
Prodigal_Son1
Guest
Yes, let’s all find what is not in scriptures, only as it can be applied to the Catholic Church, from someone’s, who opposes the Catholic Church, interpretation. Let’s forget those things that are against Protestant practices.
Man made traditions:
Scriptures are the final authority.
Scriptures are to be interpreted by each and every individual.
Man made traditions:
Scriptures are the final authority.
Scriptures are to be interpreted by each and every individual.
D
Dokimas
Guest
You and I have gone around and around on many issues for months. Are my ideas that differ from yours Scriptural?
D
Dokimas
Guest
I agree. I’ve been a non-catholic Christian for about 38 yrs.Simply and honestly, I am and have been a non-catholic Christian for 43 years, because I have not found sufficient reasons to become a catholic Christian! God bless!
D
Dokimas
Guest
I can look and see two apples in one hand and two apples in the other hand make four apples. I have not memorized anything except the words used to communicate. I don’t need to articulate why I don’t have 9 apples to see that I have only 4.
P
PeaceSerenity
Guest
NiceMan made traditions:
Scriptures are the final authority.
Scriptures are to be interpreted by each and every individual.
D
Dokimas
Guest
Peace be with us both. God bless you.Wow, I never thought I would agree with you
J
JimmyH
Guest
Son thank you for the warning, the same thing I received when a Catholic priest raped my younger brother, I was warned not to go against the church and I am in no way being disrespectful of your “religion” as I see allot of gods followers bending gods word to fit their beliefs… “ideology” “The body of ideas reflecting the social needs and aspirations of an individual, group, class, or culture” unfortunately bending the word of god to fit your needs is not being in gods favor, if my current path includes disagreeing with Catholicism’s version of the truth then give me the boot, jesus tells me I will hit opposition in my journey as did he
Oh and by the way you might want to search the hail mary and view Catholics on their knees worshipping a statue of mary.
Granted in your views they are just asking there buddy mary to pray for them, but in reality we both know thats not true
and why I have you why on the rosary are there more hail Marys than the Lords prayer
respectively
jim
J
JimmyH
Guest
The Catholic church is in no way a church. It is a false religion! For those of you who don’t know, a church is not the same as a religion. A “church” is simply the assembling of two or more born-again believers in Jesus’ name (Matthew 18:20). We foolishly tend to believe that to be in a “church” that one must be in some type of building. This is simply NOT true. You can meet with other believers in an open field or in someone’s home and still be just as much a local church. The persecuted Christians during the brutal days of Rome met underground in the catacombs. “Religion” is all of man’s traditions, lies, ceremonies, rituals and superstitions that imposters use in God’s name as a crutch to take advantage of the masses (and they sure do). Religion is the worst thing that ever happened to this dark and sinful world. You see friend, you need God, not religion. Religion is a sure road to hell and destruction (Matthew 7:13-15). You need the Lord Jesus Christ, not sacraments and rituals (Titus 3:5). Apart from simple faith in the loving Saviour, Jesus Christ, there can be no salvation (John 14:6).
The average person today is utterly confused concerning what the truth really is. Baptism is a prime example. The Bible clearly teaches that baptism is NOT a sacrament (i.e., necessary for one’s salvation). John 4:2 informs us that Jesus did not baptize, the disciples did. 1st Corinthians 1:17 clearly teaches that Paul did NOT come to baptize anybody, but he did come to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ. I’m now going to share with you a few teachings from the “Small Catechism of Martin Luther” featured on many Lutheran church websites. Of course, these writings are authored by Martin Luther himself. I had always heard that Martin Luther became a believer after reading that “the just shall live by faith;” however, I simply have to question the genuine salvation of any man who believed and taught baptismal regeneration.
The average person today is utterly confused concerning what the truth really is. Baptism is a prime example. The Bible clearly teaches that baptism is NOT a sacrament (i.e., necessary for one’s salvation). John 4:2 informs us that Jesus did not baptize, the disciples did. 1st Corinthians 1:17 clearly teaches that Paul did NOT come to baptize anybody, but he did come to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ. I’m now going to share with you a few teachings from the “Small Catechism of Martin Luther” featured on many Lutheran church websites. Of course, these writings are authored by Martin Luther himself. I had always heard that Martin Luther became a believer after reading that “the just shall live by faith;” however, I simply have to question the genuine salvation of any man who believed and taught baptismal regeneration.
J
JimmyH
Guest
"Q. What does Baptism give? What good is it?
A. It gives the forgiveness of sins, redeems from death and the Devil, gives eternal salvation to all who believe this, just as God’s words and promises declare."
—Martin Luther
This is heresy! The thief on the cross was never baptized, yet Jesus promised him paradise that day. Nobody in the Old Testament was ever baptized, but we read that Abraham “believed God” and it was counted unto him for righteousness (Romans 4:3). You get your sins forgiven by placing your personal trust (faith) upon the Lord Jesus Christ to forgive your sins, NOT by getting wet through baptism. If you are a Lutheran who has been trusting in your baptism as the experience which forgive your sins, then you need to ask Jesus to forgive you immediately because you are not saved. As best you know how, simply ask the Lord Jesus to come into your heart as your personal Saviour. If you rely upon baptism as a DOOR to salvation, then you are going to end up in hell when you die. The Catholic church teaches in their Vatican II doctrines that baptism is “the door” into the Catholic church (and they teach the heresy that the Catholic church is Christ in the world). So according to the Vatican, only those who are baptized into the Catholic church will ever go to Heaven. That’s a bunch of lies and damnable heresies! You do NOT need to belong to any church to be saved. You do NOT need to go to church to be saved. You do NOT have to be baptized, pasteurized or homogenized to go to Heaven…you just need God (Jesus Christ, Who came into this wicked world to die on the cross for the sins of all mankind). Won’t you trust Jesus Christ as your own Saviour right now before it’s too late?
As a side note, I’m going to jump on all churches here. Anybody can buy a building and hang a church sign in front. Does this make the building a church? Of course not! What makes a building a church? Nothing! A building can NEVER be a church. A true local church is when born-again believers congregate together in Jesus’ name (building or no building). So if a bunch of unsaved people get together, they are just playing church. If a so-called “church” has deteriorated to the place where all that matters is the offering plate being passed, it is no longer a church but a den of thieves (I speak of ALL churches and denominations here). All too common these days, the congregation goes through the motions, sings a few old hymns, the pastor tells a joke or two, announcements are read, etc, etc…like clock work…then the money collection! Though the church prides itself that it is not a “dead church” like others, it is in denial of its own dying and backslidden condition (if not dead itself). It seems that MONEY is the biggest concern in our Christian colleges and churches these days. Money, money, money…give us more money. I have grown to the point where I greatly detest nearly all of what we call churches and religion today. It’s at the point nowadays where one needs to actually leave church to grow in the Lord. Believers are so carnal that money has become the big issue. Listen carefully! Anyone who claims to be of God and speaks about money more than other things, get away from him! It’s a shame then so many sinister ministers use God as a crutch to put food in their belly, a roof over their head and clothes on their back. Get a real job and stop abusing the ministry! This thing of tithing is sickening, why do churches need so much money? Come to think of it, why do they need any money? The church in the book of Acts raised money for ONE thing, to help the poor.
No one can forgive your sins except Jesus Christ, God Almighty! It is the height of arrogance for any priest or pastor to claim the ability to absolve sins, this is totally unscriptural. We are advised to confess our “faults” one to another in James 5:16, but NEVER in the Bible are we told to confess our sins to anyone other than God alone. It is no one’s business what sins you have committed. Who is your pastor or priest going to confess to? God? Then why can’t you do the same. Read the following Scripture…
“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” —1st Timothy 2:5
A. It gives the forgiveness of sins, redeems from death and the Devil, gives eternal salvation to all who believe this, just as God’s words and promises declare."
—Martin Luther
This is heresy! The thief on the cross was never baptized, yet Jesus promised him paradise that day. Nobody in the Old Testament was ever baptized, but we read that Abraham “believed God” and it was counted unto him for righteousness (Romans 4:3). You get your sins forgiven by placing your personal trust (faith) upon the Lord Jesus Christ to forgive your sins, NOT by getting wet through baptism. If you are a Lutheran who has been trusting in your baptism as the experience which forgive your sins, then you need to ask Jesus to forgive you immediately because you are not saved. As best you know how, simply ask the Lord Jesus to come into your heart as your personal Saviour. If you rely upon baptism as a DOOR to salvation, then you are going to end up in hell when you die. The Catholic church teaches in their Vatican II doctrines that baptism is “the door” into the Catholic church (and they teach the heresy that the Catholic church is Christ in the world). So according to the Vatican, only those who are baptized into the Catholic church will ever go to Heaven. That’s a bunch of lies and damnable heresies! You do NOT need to belong to any church to be saved. You do NOT need to go to church to be saved. You do NOT have to be baptized, pasteurized or homogenized to go to Heaven…you just need God (Jesus Christ, Who came into this wicked world to die on the cross for the sins of all mankind). Won’t you trust Jesus Christ as your own Saviour right now before it’s too late?
As a side note, I’m going to jump on all churches here. Anybody can buy a building and hang a church sign in front. Does this make the building a church? Of course not! What makes a building a church? Nothing! A building can NEVER be a church. A true local church is when born-again believers congregate together in Jesus’ name (building or no building). So if a bunch of unsaved people get together, they are just playing church. If a so-called “church” has deteriorated to the place where all that matters is the offering plate being passed, it is no longer a church but a den of thieves (I speak of ALL churches and denominations here). All too common these days, the congregation goes through the motions, sings a few old hymns, the pastor tells a joke or two, announcements are read, etc, etc…like clock work…then the money collection! Though the church prides itself that it is not a “dead church” like others, it is in denial of its own dying and backslidden condition (if not dead itself). It seems that MONEY is the biggest concern in our Christian colleges and churches these days. Money, money, money…give us more money. I have grown to the point where I greatly detest nearly all of what we call churches and religion today. It’s at the point nowadays where one needs to actually leave church to grow in the Lord. Believers are so carnal that money has become the big issue. Listen carefully! Anyone who claims to be of God and speaks about money more than other things, get away from him! It’s a shame then so many sinister ministers use God as a crutch to put food in their belly, a roof over their head and clothes on their back. Get a real job and stop abusing the ministry! This thing of tithing is sickening, why do churches need so much money? Come to think of it, why do they need any money? The church in the book of Acts raised money for ONE thing, to help the poor.
No one can forgive your sins except Jesus Christ, God Almighty! It is the height of arrogance for any priest or pastor to claim the ability to absolve sins, this is totally unscriptural. We are advised to confess our “faults” one to another in James 5:16, but NEVER in the Bible are we told to confess our sins to anyone other than God alone. It is no one’s business what sins you have committed. Who is your pastor or priest going to confess to? God? Then why can’t you do the same. Read the following Scripture…
“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” —1st Timothy 2:5
J
JimmyH
Guest
There is to be no one between you and God the Father other than the Lord Jesus Christ (the Son of God). This is 100% Bible, so NEVER confess your sins to any pastor (or any other human being for that matter). Only Jesus has the nail-scarred hands and feet, ONLY Jesus can forgive. Your minister or elder didn’t die for your sins, he cannot (I repeat CANNOT) absolve your sins or anybody else’s. Catholics and Lutherans will readily admit that don’t consider Mary a “mediator” yet then why do they pray to her? Their words contradict their actions. They pray to Mary and say their “Hail Marys” and yet have the audacity to say that they worship God only. No Lutheran would ever exalt Mary to the level of deity as the Catholic do, yet the Lutherans idolize Mary in their prayers and commit a more subtle form of idolatry. The bottom line is that what they are doing is totally unbiblical and it originated in the heathen Catholic religion. They are a confused bunch! In addition, the whole doctrine and practice of last rites is Satanic (the belief that a minister can forgive your sins on your death bed). If you have not accepted the Lord Jesus Christ as your personal Saviour to forgive your sins, then all the priests and pastors in the world cannot keep your soul out of the fires of hell. It’s turn or burn, it’s Jesus or hell friend. Which will it be?
There are NO words of any Sacrament that can forgive sin. This is the ritualistic mumbo-jumbo that God hates. Do you really think that by reading certain words audibly that you can get your sins forgiven? I understand that the Lutherans stress the importance of believing these words in your heart, but where in the Bible does it teach that we MUST recite ANY words at all? It does not! Martin Luther was very ignorant of theology. If you call upon the name of the Lord in your sincerest attempt, you will be saved (Romans 10:13). According to Martin Luther’s “Large Catechism,” a person MUST practice the Sacrament of Baptism and Holy Communion in order to become a Christian. Remember, the Lutherans (as do the Catholics) believe that the Lord’s Supper is a Sacrament (i.e., essential to one’s salvation). This is poppycock foolishness, not founded upon the Word of God. The Lutheran church prefers to call it the “Sacrament of the Alter” (holy communion) and the Catholics refer to it as the “Mass” or “Holy Eucharist.” The Bible simply refers to it as the Lord’s supper. So what is the Lord’s supper? Scripturally, it is simply a time for us to stop everything and to reflect upon Christ’s sacrifice of Himself upon the cross for our sins. It is a time of remembrance. To represent the body and shed blood of our Saviour, ONLY unleavened bread and unfermented grape juice should ever be used for the Lord’s supper. Leaven and fermentation are decaying processing and certainly are not appropriate to represent the perfect sinless Lamb of God, Our Saviour Jesus Christ.
“And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.”
—Romans 11:6
You can’t have it both ways. it’s either by grace or by works! Either you are trying to work your way into heaven (which is a sure road to hell), or else you are trusting upon God’s grace by placing your faith in the crucified Lord Jesus Christ. I have nothing against the lady named Mary in heaven which gave birth to our earthly Saviour. I do have a problem with praising, adoring or even mentioning her in our prayers. Why? Because the first of the ten commandments forbids us to worship anyone other than God. For a Catholic or Lutheran to claim to worship God only THROUGH Mary is heresy, a lie of the devil. We are clearly warned in 1st Timothy 2:5 that there is only ONE Mediator between God and man, the Lord Jesus Christ. Mary CANNOT mediate for you! And by the way, neither can the pope or your pastor. I speak the truth, you must decide for yourself. Most people make light of the truth and could care less about God or His TRUTH. Is your doctrine of God? Is it grounded firmly in the Bible? Can you back up what you believe with God’s Word? Show me ONE, just one verse in the entire Bible that even remotely indicates that we should recognize Mary in ANY way. You cannot! On the contrary, Mary magnified Christ.
“His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it.” —John 2:5
Mary was a godly woman, no more…no less. It is wicked idolatry to say “hail Mary.” It is a horrible, horrible sin to bow to Mary in any manner (statue or no statue). The Lutherans are committing sin if they “hail Mary.” Even if the sincere intention is to indirectly worship God THROUGH Mary, it is wicked and wrong to do such a thing–it is idolatry. Mary worship is a sin.
I am a Christian, plain and simple. I do not pride myself in being part of any denomination or religious camp. I am a Christian! Why do nearly all religious people have a dyer need to wear a label of some sort? Are we afraid to stand alone? I have faith in God, end of statement. I have no allegiance for any man-made organization or religious authority. I serve the Lord Jesus Christ and Him alone will I answer to. I’ve seen too many believers become saint worshippers. Meaning, they follow a man (or men) instead of God.
There are NO words of any Sacrament that can forgive sin. This is the ritualistic mumbo-jumbo that God hates. Do you really think that by reading certain words audibly that you can get your sins forgiven? I understand that the Lutherans stress the importance of believing these words in your heart, but where in the Bible does it teach that we MUST recite ANY words at all? It does not! Martin Luther was very ignorant of theology. If you call upon the name of the Lord in your sincerest attempt, you will be saved (Romans 10:13). According to Martin Luther’s “Large Catechism,” a person MUST practice the Sacrament of Baptism and Holy Communion in order to become a Christian. Remember, the Lutherans (as do the Catholics) believe that the Lord’s Supper is a Sacrament (i.e., essential to one’s salvation). This is poppycock foolishness, not founded upon the Word of God. The Lutheran church prefers to call it the “Sacrament of the Alter” (holy communion) and the Catholics refer to it as the “Mass” or “Holy Eucharist.” The Bible simply refers to it as the Lord’s supper. So what is the Lord’s supper? Scripturally, it is simply a time for us to stop everything and to reflect upon Christ’s sacrifice of Himself upon the cross for our sins. It is a time of remembrance. To represent the body and shed blood of our Saviour, ONLY unleavened bread and unfermented grape juice should ever be used for the Lord’s supper. Leaven and fermentation are decaying processing and certainly are not appropriate to represent the perfect sinless Lamb of God, Our Saviour Jesus Christ.
Code:
As with many false prophets, the writer of the "Small Catechism of Martin Luther" makes a deliberate effort to avoid taking any firm positions. Of course, the writer is Martin Luther himself. He "beats around the bush" (so-to-speak) without making any concrete points to argue. However, for the Bible-believing Christian who is skilled in the Word of God, the subtly of the author cannot hide his true intent. Martin Luther taught that water baptism and the Sacrament of the alter (Holy Communion) are necessary to salvation. Nothing could be further from the truth.—Romans 11:6
You can’t have it both ways. it’s either by grace or by works! Either you are trying to work your way into heaven (which is a sure road to hell), or else you are trusting upon God’s grace by placing your faith in the crucified Lord Jesus Christ. I have nothing against the lady named Mary in heaven which gave birth to our earthly Saviour. I do have a problem with praising, adoring or even mentioning her in our prayers. Why? Because the first of the ten commandments forbids us to worship anyone other than God. For a Catholic or Lutheran to claim to worship God only THROUGH Mary is heresy, a lie of the devil. We are clearly warned in 1st Timothy 2:5 that there is only ONE Mediator between God and man, the Lord Jesus Christ. Mary CANNOT mediate for you! And by the way, neither can the pope or your pastor. I speak the truth, you must decide for yourself. Most people make light of the truth and could care less about God or His TRUTH. Is your doctrine of God? Is it grounded firmly in the Bible? Can you back up what you believe with God’s Word? Show me ONE, just one verse in the entire Bible that even remotely indicates that we should recognize Mary in ANY way. You cannot! On the contrary, Mary magnified Christ.
“His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it.” —John 2:5
Mary was a godly woman, no more…no less. It is wicked idolatry to say “hail Mary.” It is a horrible, horrible sin to bow to Mary in any manner (statue or no statue). The Lutherans are committing sin if they “hail Mary.” Even if the sincere intention is to indirectly worship God THROUGH Mary, it is wicked and wrong to do such a thing–it is idolatry. Mary worship is a sin.
I am a Christian, plain and simple. I do not pride myself in being part of any denomination or religious camp. I am a Christian! Why do nearly all religious people have a dyer need to wear a label of some sort? Are we afraid to stand alone? I have faith in God, end of statement. I have no allegiance for any man-made organization or religious authority. I serve the Lord Jesus Christ and Him alone will I answer to. I’ve seen too many believers become saint worshippers. Meaning, they follow a man (or men) instead of God.
P
Prodigal_Son1
Guest
It appears you have a chip on your shoulder, against Catholicism and all Catholics. I have done nothing to you or your family. I am not an enemy.
I know what I pray and ask for. It’s amazing you have gained insight into things you cannot see with your eye. It also appears that you have ‘appointed’ yourself judge over others as well.
I don’t see those type beliefs aligning with the messages of Christ, but that’s just my opinion.
J
Jimmy_B
Guest
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/22/Gen_pulitzer.jpg
And… The Best Catholic Poster on this CAF Thread Award… goes to…
Prodigal Son1
**For his outstanding contributions in defense of Catholicism! **
Keep up the good work! :clapping:
And… The Best Catholic Poster on this CAF Thread Award… goes to…
Prodigal Son1
**For his outstanding contributions in defense of Catholicism! **
Keep up the good work!
:clapping:
1
1beleevr
Guest
This post is a bit vague, and rambles some! Scriptures can be interpreted by people other than the pope, and bishops, etc. All of us who are in Christ, have received the gift of the Holy Spirit(Acts 2:38), and the Holy Spirit leads us into Spirit and Truth! “You will know the Truth, and the Truth will set you free.”Yes, let’s all find what is not in scriptures, only as it can be applied to the Catholic Church, from someone’s, who opposes the Catholic Church, interpretation. Let’s forget those things that are against Protestant practices.
Man made traditions:
Scriptures are the final authority.
Scriptures are to be interpreted by each and every individual.
1
1beleevr
Guest
H-m-m-m-m! And if he isn’t the best, he’s darn closehttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/22/Gen_pulitzer.jpg
And… The Best Catholic Poster on this CAF Thread Award… goes to…
Prodigal Son1
**For his outstanding contributions in defense of Catholicism! **
Keep up the good work!
1
1beleevr
Guest
Considering what he’s been through, he should be allowed a certain degree of latitude! I know that when inmates feel wronged by the administration, they take it out on us officers!
P
Prodigal_Son1
Guest
Christ established a Church. He chose and appointed men over that Church. With their authority, they appointed more men of the Church. Men of the Church wrote the scriptures. Men of the Church gave the interpretation of what they had written to those they had appointed. Those that received the scriptures, passed the scriptures and interpretation to those they appointed, and on and on. That’s how Apostolic succession works. If they had not preserved the scriptures through the centuries, you wouldn’t have a New Testament today. So, the Church has the interpretation. It isn’t the Pope alone who interprets scriptures.
Acts 2:38 tells people they will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. It does not say, you will receive an authority in the Church. Neither Christ, or the Apostles, did ‘blanket’ appointments. Christ chose men and appointed them. They appointed others. The others appointed more…again, this is Apostolic succession.
It seems people would rather argue that ALL have authority, yet there are no scriptures to support that view. Where in scriptures did anyone ‘appoint themself’? It’s that simple.
P
Prodigal_Son1
Guest
It was understandable that he had a certain resentment, and I expressed my sorrow for that situation, but his agenda was to take it out on Catholicism and anyone that is Catholic. If you read back, I warned him that his posts were borderline infractions and suggested he read the forum rules.
When the inmates take it out on the officers, is it allowed to continue?
- Status