I don't get it...if you are a non-Catholic Christian, then why aren't you a Catholic Christian?

[larkin31]

I only rarely visit this forum anymore because of threads like this. Why so much antagonism towards non-Catholic Christians?

Some of it is information sharing. Some of it isn’t.

I am settled back into the Catholic Church now, for the rest of my life (please God!), but I have left more than once, and looking back, I realize it was necessary for me to be “outside” for a whlie, in order to see the whole picture more clearly.

Like Dorothy, sometimes we just can’t appreciate what’s in our own backyard till we’ve been out of it for a while.

Wow, do I dislike that movie: teaches a teenaged girl that her heroism is only imaginary and that she has to give it up, wake up, and settle for the black-n-white world of home. No more adventures for you, silly stubborn girl!

 

[PRmerger]

No, I don’t agree. It was offered literally, in the same way that you offered “Jesus is everything.”

'zactly. “Jesus is everything” is to be taken as “literally” as “authority is everything.”

When Catholics say, “Jesus is everything”, we don’t mean it literally. I mean, really, you’ll be hard-pressed to find a Catholic say yes to any of these questions:

-Is Jesus a turnip?
-Is Jesus a pile of manure?
-Is Jesus a moral evil?

Clearly, Jesus is not everything, in the literal sense. Just like, as you said, we don’t mean “authority is everything” in the literal sense.

(Now, I acknowledge that, ontologically speaking, God holds everything in creation in its existence by his very will; that, however, is different than saying “Jesus is everything, therefore Jesus is a turnip”. :whacky: )

[sign1]
“Jesus is everything” is NOT to be taken literally, anymore than “Authority is everything” is to be taken literally.[/sign1]

 

[PRmerger]

Wow, do I dislike that movie: teaches a teenaged girl that her heroism is only imaginary and that she has to give it up, wake up, and settle for the black-n-white world of home. No more adventures for you, silly stubborn girl!

Yep. Ridiculous message.

Even as a little girl I thought, “What? She could have gotten home at any time just by clicking her heels together? And no one told her? How in the world was she supposed to know* that*?”

 

[1beleevr]

“I strive to follow His will daily”

Hello 1beleevr,

I have no reason not to believe that in many ways you do follow God’s will.

However, do you believe that you have a democratic “vote” when is comes to right and wrong? You may be able to choose to behave a certain way but you can’t choose the rules.

They are determined by God.

If Christianity is a democracy (it‘s not), then does that mean that we can elect someone else to be God, if we disagree? Of course not, we can‘t “vote” for another God If we disagree with Him, but many do, by their actions and by rejecting Christian truths.

The problem is that the definition of “His will”, or “God’s will”, has a different meaning to so many different, non-Catholic, Christian denominations.

And, obviously, the definition of “God’s will” is different between Catholics and Protestants in many ways… not in every way… but in many ways…

For instance, as a Catholic, I believe that it is God’s will that I attend a Catholic Mass ever Sunday (keeping the Sabbath holy) and on Holy days and as a non-denominational Christian, you may not agree.

I also believe in all Seven Sacraments and the Real Presence of Christ in the Holy Eucharist and you may not.

So, how can two people, who have such differing views regarding Christian truths, both be right? They can’t both be right and the one who is wrong, or the one who knowingly rejects a Christian truth, is rejecting Christ Himself and is committing a serious sin…

Right?

Your thoughts

To tell the truth, I was being a bit facetious in my previous post I honestly believe that Christianity is neither a democracy or a religion! I believe that it is politically nuetral. Religion is man’s attempt to get back to God(ever since the fall-in the Garden) Christianity is a relationship with God through His Son, Jesus Christ! And when it comes to God’s will, neither one of us really knows what His will is; but we do know that it is always the right thing for us, no matter how much we fight it! I believe it is God’s will for me to do street ministry, feed the homeless, visit and minister to shut-ins, and seniors, and do worship music with believers and nonbelievers! I experience the fullness of Christ, no matter where I am! “Where two or more are gathered, there will I be also!” I guess the real question is,"Which one is committing the serious sin

 

[1beleevr]

Yes, he did, to some degree. He called the Pharisees hypocrites. He healed on the Sabbath. He stopped the stoning of an adulteress.

All of this was done contrary to the wishes of those in established religious power, with the sanction of religious authorities under God.

But, as fully man and fully God, Jesus established the Sabbath!

 

[PRmerger]

To tell the truth, I was being a bit facetious in my previous post I honestly believe that Christianity is neither a democracy or a religion! I believe that it is politically nuetral. Religion is man’s attempt to get back to God(ever since the fall-in the Garden)** Christianity is a relationship with God** through His Son, Jesus Christ!

Hi, 1beleevr!

Did you know that the word “religion” comes from the Latin word, religiare, which means “relationship”?

So if you replace the word “relationship” in the bolded sentence above, it means that Christianity is a religiare, or a religion!

 

[1beleevr]

But you do agree that Jesus told us to obey our leaders and follow the commandments, yes?

And you do agree that when someone says “authority is everything” it’s not to be taken literally? It’s similar to the verse in Scripture that says “all have sinned”. Clearly, that’s not true, literally. ALL have not sinned.

Not counting Jesus, where does it say that NOT all have sinned?

 

[PRmerger]

Not counting Jesus, where does it say that NOT all have sinned?

First of all, if you believe literally “ALL have sinned” then do you believe that those with Down syndrome sin? What about 3 year olds?

Secondly, the verse does say “ALL have sinned”. It does NOT say, “except Jesus”.

Now, clearly Catholics believe that Jesus was sinless. And Catholics (and, indeed, if we are honest, ALL Christians) do not take the verse “ALL have sinned” literally–we know there are exceptions. Like Jesus. And Mary. And 3 year olds. And those with Down syndrome. And…

 

[larkin31]

First of all, if you believe literally “ALL have sinned” then do you believe that those with Down syndrome sin? What about 3 year olds?

Secondly, the verse does say “ALL have sinned”. It does NOT say, “except Jesus”.

Now, clearly Catholics believe that Jesus was sinless. And Catholics (and, indeed, if we are honest, ALL Christians) do not take the verse “ALL have sinned” literally–we know there are exceptions. Like Jesus. And Mary. And 3 year olds. And those with Down syndrome. And…

I have never heard anyone claim that some children do not sin. Nor that handicapped persons do not sin.

Does the Catholic church promote this view as well? I am very curious. I would love to know when/what sin then comes into being. I thought it was thought of as a condition as well as a category of behavior.

 

[larkin31]

But, as fully man and fully God, Jesus established the Sabbath!

What?

Should we ask a Jewish scholar of the Torah about that?

 

[PRmerger]

I have never heard anyone claim that some children do not sin. Nor that handicapped persons do not sin.

Does the Catholic church promote this view as well? I am very curious. I would love to know when/what sin then comes into being. I thought it was thought of as a condition as well as a category of behavior.

Yes. For something to be a sin one has to know they’re doing wrong. They have to have a reasonable understanding of right and wrong.

That’s why 3 year old can’t partake of the Sacrament of Reconciliation–it’s 'cause they can’t sin, so they don’t need to be forgiven.

 

[larkin31]

Yes. For something to be a sin one has to know they’re doing wrong. They have to have a reasonable understanding of right and wrong.

That’s why 3 year old can’t partake of the Sacrament of Reconciliation–it’s 'cause they can’t sin, so they don’t need to be forgiven.

hmmm

4 yr old? 5? 6?

Is there a church teaching on this? So, sin is not, in part, a condition we are born into for the Catholics?

 

[1beleevr]

First of all, if you believe literally “ALL have sinned” then do you believe that those with Down syndrome sin? What about 3 year olds?

Secondly, the verse does say “ALL have sinned”. It does NOT say, “except Jesus”.

Now, clearly Catholics believe that Jesus was sinless. And Catholics (and, indeed, if we are honest, ALL Christians) do not take the verse “ALL have sinned” literally–we know there are exceptions. Like Jesus. And Mary. And 3 year olds. And those with Down syndrome. And…

Jesus is the only"human" that we know for sure never sinned! The other "exceptions you have listed, are speculations on the part of mankind! And if three year olds and down sybdrome kids cannot sin, then why do you baptize them? BTW, hello prmerger, good to hea from you again! Are you saying that Paul, as part of the apostoloic succession misspoke when he uttered this verse?

 

[larkin31]

Jesus is the only"human" that we know for sure never sinned! The other "exceptions you have listed, are speculations on the part of mankind! And if three year olds and down sybdrome kids cannot sin, then why do you baptize them? BTW, hello prmerger, good to hea from you again! Are you saying that Paul, as part of the apostoloic succession misspoke when he uttered this verse?

Maybe “all” does not actually mean “all”.

 

[1beleevr]

What?

Should we ask a Jewish scholar of the Torah about that?

This is another reason why Jesus called the Pharisees and Saducees hypocrites; because He knew that they did things like circumcision and removing their donkey from a ditch on the Sabbath! And, of course, Christ was teaching the New Covenant, which would be completed with His death on the Cross! And as far as I understand, wasn’t the Torah, just the first five books of the Bible?

 

[1beleevr]

Maybe “all” does not actually mean “all”.

Or, perhaps it means that one may interpret what ALL means to them! What did Bill Clinton say;"It depends on what your definition of “is”, is!

 

[larkin31]

This is another reason why Jesus called the Pharisees and Saducees hypocrites; because He knew that they did things like circumcision and removing their donkey from a ditch on the Sabbath! And, of course, Christ was teaching the New Covenant, which would be completed with His death on the Cross! And as far as I understand, wasn’t the Torah, just the first five books of the Bible?

Yes, that is where/when the Sabbath is established.

 

[1beleevr]

I only rarely visit this forum anymore because of threads like this. Why so much antagonism towards non-Catholic Christians?

I am settled back into the Catholic Church now, for the rest of my life (please God!), but I have left more than once, and looking back, I realize it was necessary for me to be “outside” for a whlie, in order to see the whole picture more clearly.

Like Dorothy, sometimes we just can’t appreciate what’s in our own backyard till we’ve been out of it for a while.

Sadly, there is an almost equal amount of antagonism directed towards catholics! And I rejoice in the freedom of being nondenominational, especially after being around people of different faiths, who on the surface at least, appear to be in religious bondage!

 

[larkin31]

Or, perhaps it means that one may interpret what ALL means to them! What did Bill Clinton say;"It depends on what your definition of “is”, is!

Hey! I resemble that remark!

 

[1beleevr]

Yes, that is where/when the Sabbath is established.

To my understanding, God established the Sabbath for man, so man could rest from his work, as God rested from His! Was it Saturday? Or is the Sabbath, that day, after workong no more than six, that you worship your God?