I don't see how I can believe in the Church anymore

[lilypadrees]

Then what did? I entered the Church in relatively good health. I learned I shouldn’t masturbate. So I tried stopping. This quest led me to taking advise from spiritual advisors. And also a lot of online research into this to see what could stop it.

The Catholic Church didn’t make you sick. The pressure you put on yourself to live up to what you saw as an ideal made you sick.

As for your alleged “holy” friendships, I doubt they left because you weren’t going to Mass. Why not ask them to pray for you?

 

[lilypadrees]

Never demand God do something. If you demanded He heal you, that may be the reason He didn’t.

Always ask in humility with a sincere and loving heart. He hasn’t refused to heal you of your addiction. It sounds like His answer right now is “Wait.”

Also, consider this for a moment, God may not be healing you right away because He is using you in this condition to help others. After you have helped those He brings into your life, then He will heal you.

It could also be that He is testing your faith. Like Job, He has allowed these things to happen to you to strengthen your faith in and reliance on Him.

You are looking at things so negatively when you should be saying, “Here I am, Lord. What can I do as your instrument today?”

 

[RebeccaJ]

Honestly, as a woman whose marital relationship was nearly destroyed by this. I’m saying, one thing is more important to you than anything else. On one hand I have compassion for your struggle, on the other, you are an adult, capable I assume of making choices. Yet talking as though you are a victim of the Church, and wanting to be convinced that the Church won’t victimize you any longer.

God isn’t victimizing you, neither is the Church in His name.

 

[sudy]

This contrasted with the Catholic Church’s strong claim that no one is tempted above their mean

I haven’t read the entire thread, so forgive me if this has been covered already. This claim is biblical with 1 Corinthians 10:13.

I’m not trying to undermine your struggles, however. The Church does say that habitual sin doesn’t necessarily carry the same level of culpability. We must still strive to fight sin, though. We have to actively look for the way out. Go for a walk, phone somebody etc. Distract yourself in some way.

 

[TheLittleLady]

The Church made me sick, leaving made me healthy

Sin and despair of God’s mercy made you sick. Perhaps depression made you sick.

leaving made me healthy and full of happiness

Hebrews, CHAPTER 11 | USCCB

This passage reminds us that sin is pleasure for a short time, but, that living by Faith is in the end the great reward.

 

[Gab123]

I want someone to explain how it could be that since the Catholic Church reassures us constantly that we have God’s help to fight the good fight, and that we’re not tempted above our ability to resist, then how is it that despite all sorts of attempts at overcoming this addiction, it never changed, and I never got anymore strength, grace or additional virtue to resist?

We’re not talking about magic potions here, we’re talking about the way of the cross and sanctification. The cross leads to Golgotha and crucifixion. Being that it is lent, make up your mind to not self-abuse for the rest of lent; one has to understand that temptation is a life-long reality, thus lent is a good season to practice self-denial that will strengthen your spirit, so that your body serves the spirit, and not the other way around

Once a habit of impurity is broken, one has to be on guard from falling back into the sin; yet even if one falls, the important thing to do is to simply get up again. Remember, this is an addiction; an alcoholic, a drug addict, a gambling addict has to be on guard. But don’t beat yourself up over it, that is just the devil making one despair.

But Paul Himself gives the answer:
But since sexual immorality is occurring, each man should have sexual relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband. The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. . . Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. I wish that all of you were as I am. But each of you has your own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that.
Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I do. But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion. 1 Cor. 7:2-9

 

[lilypadrees]

By claiming that the Catholic Church made you sick, you deny and reject the Truth. By placing the blame on everyone and everything and not on yourself, you deny and reject the Truth. Because the Catholic Church has told you the Truth.

You claim that leaving the Catholic Church made you well. You claim you’re going to return some day and that you are going to find a spiritual director.

When are you going to return to the Catholic Church? Since you blame the Church for your getting sick, you’ll just leave again when you get sick again. And you’ll blame the Catholic Church for your sickness coming back. Why? Because the Church speaks God’s Truth about masturbation and all sin. Leaving means you get to avoid all that Truth.

When and how are you going to find a spiritual director? You said you have a policy of not listening to any spiritual direction via an online source. Yet here you are doing just that. Seeking spiritual direction via online sources.

Another poster recommended you listen to the words of Archbishop Fulton J Sheen. I agree that you should do this. He was very wise and filled with the Holy Spirit.

I don’t recall seeing your age in this thread. But I can assure you of one thing. As you age, your sex drive, those raging hormones that plague you now, will decline. And when they do, your desire to masturbate will decline as well until it is no more.

 

[leonhardprintz]

Have you’ve seen a doctor about this?

Yes, I have. I was first put on medicine to treat my severe depression, and chronic lack of sleep. My sexuality was never discussed, beyond me mentioning a “personal issue” I had moved past. I was told of how important regular sleep is for people with a chance of developing severe depression, and it was stressed that I should work to keep a regular cycle.

Ironically those drugs actually gave me a few days of being free from the habit, as they actually did take away my desire almost entirely.

As a side-effect they were an anaphrodisiac. While it was tempting to keep taking them they also came with horrible and sometimes irreversible side-effects: Weight gain, tinnitus, reduced lifespan, etc…

So when my depression was no longer severe, but only moderate I went off the medicine. And slowly but surely improved from there.

I can definitely testify to the importance of a regular sleep cycle!

I am so happy you have fought hard with this

Thank you for the kind words. Its people like you who seem to actually care, that makes me want to return to the Church.

 

[leonhardprintz]

I haven’t read the entire thread, so forgive me if this has been covered already. This claim is biblical with 1 Corinthians 10:13.

I’m not trying to undermine your struggles, however. The Church does say that habitual sin doesn’t necessarily carry the same level of culpability. We must still strive to fight sin, though. We have to actively look for the way out. Go for a walk, phone somebody etc. Distract yourself in some way.

Its posts like this I’ve been wanting. Thank you.

And I agree with a lot of what you’re saying, but there’s still a complete disconnect still between what say St. Pope John Paul II about always knowing that God will support you through what you need, and other words about reassurement. Or the constant testimonies as to the power of Marian devotions in obtaining for us what we need, and the actual experience I had.

Its this complete disconnect, and seemingly total powerlessness of such devotion and the lack of help I experienced that seems at odds with that.

I could understand it for small sins. I could even understand my habit only gradually changing (one monk gave me the example of praying a rosary and checking how much a tree had grown after it), but the complete stand still I don’t get.

 

[leonhardprintz]

Sin and despair of God’s mercy made you sick. Perhaps depression made you sick.

The spiritual advisor that I’ll be seeking out once told me that I’ll need “a new and gentler approach to your problem”, he’s an excellent priest by the way. His father is the leader of the Third Order Carmelites in my country.

There is a good chance that a lot of what happened was my severe depression.

Though then I still need to understand why God wouldn’t help me. It would seem I needed even more help, not less. You don’t ask someone who’s so sick they can’t get out of bed to run a marathon.

Its not something I’ve found a good answer for yet. But I know of some people well learned in moral theology who I can ask when I’m ready.

 

[TheLittleLady]

Here is how one priest described it for me.

Look at that beautiful pear tree. We have picked all of the fruit and we know that in order for there to be fruit NEXT year, all of the leaves must fall out, new buds of flowers have to open and turn into fruit.

The smart orchard keeper does not to out and pluck the leaves off the tree the day after harvest. He waits because he knows there is a process.

First, this years leaves must wither, die and fall to the ground.

Even then there will be some stubborn dead leaves that cling to the branches.

The orchard keeper does not go and try to pick off those ugly, dead leaves in the midst of winter.

He waits, because in the spring new life will flow and the new buds will actually push the old, dead leaves off the tree.

Sounds like you were focusing on picking leaves instead of cultivating new life.

 

[leonhardprintz]

Honestly, as a woman whose marital relationship was nearly destroyed by this.

I’m sorry this happened to you.

I’m saying, one thing is more important to you than anything else. On one hand I have compassion for your struggle, on the other, you are an adult, capable I assume of making choices.

That is true. I haven’t contested that though.

Yet talking as though you are a victim of the Church, and wanting to be convinced that the Church won’t victimize you any longer.

You have a fair point, this thread shouldn’t be a pitying party. Though its nice to hear my suffering acknowledged. I originally posted this thread, as you can read in the OP, because I just couldn’t see how my lack of progress (despite my hard attempts, devotionals, etc…) is consistent with the constant reassurance we have of God’s assistance, and that we’re never tempted above our ability to resist.

 

[leonhardprintz]

Never demand God do something. If you demanded He heal you, that may be the reason He didn’t.

There’s a lot of people promoting this style of praying, that we pray with “confidence”, practically demanding things of God. Many in this thread have told me to do so, apparently because my style of asking “If it be your will…” is too timid?

I do not want to treat God like a waiter who hasn’t delivered a soup yet.

God may not be healing you right away because He is using you in this condition to help others.

I would accept this if my sin constituted venial sin. Then things would make sense. St. Thomas Aquinas in Summa Theologica speculated in a similar fashion that God might refuse to help someone out of sin, as long as the sin wasn’t mortal.

The Catholic Church didn’t make you sick. The pressure you put on yourself to live up to what you saw as an ideal made you sick.

One of the things I’ll be discussing with my spiritual advisor is a way to things that involves a lot less pressure on myself.

As for your alleged “holy” friendships, I doubt they left because you weren’t going to Mass. Why not ask them to pray for you?

They certainly stopped calling when I didn’t offer to be an altar server anymore. My old friend kept in touch, through all of it. Even through arguments. Do you know the phrase said by Jesus “If thiny eye offends you, tear it out?” St. Augustine interpreted this to mean that a secular friendship, no matter how precious should be ended.

And I did. And it wasn’t enough. All that happened was that my friends prediction came true.

We’re good friends again, rejoining after good long while of me being miserable. It’ll take an angel, standing in my living room, at noon, while I’m indisputably awake, flaming sword and all, declaring to me that I must end that friendship or perish before I’ll give that guy up again.

 

[leonhardprintz]

By claiming that the Catholic Church made you sick, you deny and reject the Truth.

I never claimed specifically that the Catholic Church made me sick. I’ve been repeating what happened at length so many times in this thread that I’ve sometimes abbreviated, but you can scroll right up to the OP and read it if anything said recently confuses you.

You claim that leaving the Catholic Church made you well.

Stopping my purity drive and no longer attending mass (as I was no longer certain of the Catholic Church or my place in it), certainly did help. It took off a lot of pressure, and allowed me to heal and become a more integrated human again. There is no real discussing this. You either accept what I say on this, or you believe I’m lying. If you don’t believe me, you have no reason to stay in this thread.

Nothing I say will convince that I got a lot better after staring to practice self-acceptance.

You claim you’re going to return some day and that you are going to find a spiritual director.

I don’t owe you that answer. And you certainly have no reason to doubt my intentions.

But I’ll explain anyway; I’ve been an active participator in a lot of Catholic groups in Denmark. I am on a first name basis with a priest whom I’ve known since before he got ordained. I even visited him in Rome.

When he returns to Denmark following his studies in canon law, and after I get settled in my new position, and I just in general feel that irresistable tug on the heart then I know its time.

You said you have a policy of not listening to any spiritual direction via an online source. Yet here you are doing just that.

No, what is happening is that I wrote an opening post crying my heart out about my lack of progress and the disillusionment in the Church I have. Seeking support, and seeking explanation for how what I experienced could come to be.

Some people have given that. And that’s been an encouragement. Even recently two gave just that.

Other… I don’t think they’ve actually read anything I wrote about the problems I got into. They’ve shown up dumped a link, a prayer, etc… something they want me to do. That hasn’t helped.

What helps even less are people who show up and “well-meaningly” act like The Accuser and ask whether I’ve got a porn stash.

 

[Annie]

I think in fact its heresy to say that God will only hear your real intentions or understand you, if you say a prayer the right way.

And we shouldn’t say that. A prayer is a tool, like exercise equipment. We have to contribute to the attainment of the goal, not just buy the weights or say the prayer.

That being said, if you have a physical problem causing this, or an addiction problem, you need help other than what the Church gives. If I have a broken leg, I go to a doctor to have it taken care of. I may pray that it heal well or quickly, but that is in addition to getting the appropriate help in the world.

God also allows problems to remain or continue for a while. Some of the general reasons given for this are that He wants us to learn to rely on Him more, or to keep or get us away from the sin of pride.

St Monica prayed for her son St Augustine for 17 years! As a result, they both became great saints. But during those 17 years, she had peaceful acceptance that God was in charge and was doing the right thing.

I would suggest going to a doctor, and to an addictions counselor if the problem is not physical, and also returning to the Church. Return, and don’t obsess over this sin, just focus on doing the good that you can do.

 

[Aspidistraflyer]

Sorry, I did not read everything, and might not respond to your answer (sorry!) but if you could: Can you boil down to one sentence why it is you came on this thread to talk about this issue?

That might be grounds for a more productive conversation.

 

[leonhardprintz]

Encouragement, support, and more deeply an explanation of why, when the Church promises that God does not allow us to be tempted above our ability to resist, and that we can count on God to assist us especially if we’re devoted to the virgin Mary, yet I never experienced any help, despite a lot of devotion, I only got sicker and more depressed, and when I left I got better quickly.

That’s quite a mouthful of a sentence. But I squeezed the essence of it into that.

 

[Aspidistraflyer]

I am sorry, what is the encouragement and support for? Encouragement and support to do what exactly? Sorry, I didn’t read the whole thing.

 

[leonhardprintz]

That should be obvious given that I’m a Catholic, and this is a Catholic forum.

 

[Aspidistraflyer]

Sorry, I thought you were saying you left. Perhaps it should have been obvious to me though, but I was confused.