I don't think I can become Catholic

[Truth_Faith13]

I thought I would express my opinion and start an uproar. I just love uproars! I grew up with lots of them…I thought I lived with lions!

In the first place, I think purgatory is abusive. I think it is almost excessively cruel to put us imperfect human beans into a big pot over a roaring fire to cleanse us from our sins. God supposedly does that. I guess He loves to cook beans! (just kidding.) Of course mine is only an opinion and I don’t like the idea of purgatory. Just to be serious, I would say I would try to avoid it at all costs. But, it is a church doctrine that the souls of the redeemed will be purified. How it is done is anyone’s guess, and if it involves fire, it can be extremely painful. I remember in the good ole days spanking was considered OK. In fact I got the belt sometimes. Lots of times it was a wooden paddle. Sometimes it was the dog’s leash. I had no knowledge of the law, so I had no defense. Nobody even bothered to defend me. They thought I had it coming.

Nobody at that time was immune to a spanking. My brother got spanked (it probably didn’t hurt because he was wearing a diaper at the time). I don’t think they spanked my sister because they learned on me and by then they had it down pat. Little sister got a get-out-of-spanking free pass.

Even the dog got spanked when she would have an accident on the carpet. Her nose would be rubbed into it as well. I think I would never want to relive those years of my childhood when physical punishment was considered good, and not punishing was considered bad.

The pope probably grew up when spanking was the norm.

On another note: I would never spank a dog.

I shouldn’t smile at this topic but your post made me smile. Thank you for posting

 

[Sarcelle]

I have attended an RCIA class but it was a bit ad hoc and not officially set up and even then wasn’t really about what the doctrines are etc (we read over the mass readings). I’m moving soon so was going to look another one up

Good.

Even if you do decide not to become Catholic after RCIA, at least your decision will be based on a deeper understanding of what the Church teaches.

Too many people leave the Church or decide not to join the Church based on misunderstandings, which is a shame.

 

[po18guy]

(Climate change, immigration, more inclusive communion, women taking bigger role in church, who-are-we-to-judge, etc, etc…) .

Careful here, you risk rendering the Church irrelevant, as it would then be a carbon copy of the secular world, wetting its pants at each news report. It’s too darned close to that as is. Christ’s Church is not a cult of personality where we pick and choose the Pope who agrees with us. The Holy Father’s personal beliefs may have nothing to do with what is binding on the faithful.

We are called to conform ourselves to the Church, not the opposite.

Those secular/pagan/hot button topics you posted each have at least two ways in which they can be accomplished. The secular view is normally the emotion-driven view and so must be rejected - if not on principle, then on practicality - the ideas simply do not work.

The Church will not and cannot change. You must. I must.

 

[MaryT777]

No it’s not the only thing but it is an important factor currently. I don’t know what his views are on the rest but for me Personally, for those you mention they aren’t as problematic as spanking because of how I feel about spanking specifically.

I don’t know if it’s to do with faith and morals which is why I’m asking?

I was on a spanking forum once and many there that were non Catholic that used the Bible to state spanking was an acceptable form of discipline:

They used:
Proverbs 13:24
New International Version

**Whoever spares the rod hates their children, but the one who loves their children is careful to discipline them.
**

There is no Catholic doctrine that states you are required to spank your child; that is the opinion of the Pope and the view of many based on the Bible. (at least on the ONE and only spanking thread I read years ago. ) It was truly one of the most heated debates I’ve ever seen online.

I never spanked my two daughters and the Pope as others say, have opinions that are not binding on Catholics.

The best reference is the Catechism of the Catholic Church which is free online via a quick google search!~

Prayers for your discernment.

Mary.

 

[TK421]

As many of you know I have been researching Catholicism (and LDS) for quite some time. I was starting to be drawn to Catholicism and had hoped to start attending mass more regularly as soon as we had moved and settled. However another thread has thrown a spanner into the works…

Over on the “spanking ban” thread, I found out the pope advocates spanking. Now I believe it is physical abuse and am fiercely against it. I’m not sure I can join a church where the earthly leader is in favour of something I consider to be abuse.

My question here Is, how much impact does this belief of the popes have on the church as a whole? Is it merely his personal opinion and I can just put him down as a “bad pope” or does it have more influence over Catholics?

Now I don’t want this thread turning into a “is spanking OK”, there is already a thread to that but it has seriously put a spanner in the works and I am not sure if I can/should proceed?

There’s over a billion Catholics within the Church, which is a supranational institution spanning every continent and region, so there is going to be a wide variance of beliefs on many issues, though always being bound through a core set of doctrines and Magisterial teachings.

St Gianna Molla did not spank her children, and they grew up to be highly virtuous, productive human beings. There is no moral expectation in Catholicism to spank children if you do not agree with it. I likewise do not intend to spank my children.

However, you are correct, that the Church does not consider the vast majority of the world’s parents to be child abusers. This is an issue which it has not spoken of authoritatively, the way that it has with abortion or euthanasia.

In the big picture, there are only a small minority of subjects which the Church speaks authoritatively about. The rest is left to prudence and discernment.

So, this is something that will require discernment and spiritual direction.

 

[bitterhope]

As many of you know I have been researching Catholicism (and LDS) for quite some time. I was starting to be drawn to Catholicism and had hoped to start attending mass more regularly as soon as we had moved and settled. However another thread has thrown a spanner into the works…

Over on the “spanking ban” thread, I found out the pope advocates spanking. Now I believe it is physical abuse and am fiercely against it. I’m not sure I can join a church where the earthly leader is in favour of something I consider to be abuse.

My question here Is, how much impact does this belief of the popes have on the church as a whole? Is it merely his personal opinion and I can just put him down as a “bad pope” or does it have more influence over Catholics?

Now I don’t want this thread turning into a “is spanking OK”, there is already a thread to that but it has seriously put a spanner in the works and I am not sure if I can/should proceed?

The pope has no authority to determine how a parent disciplines, as long as it is not immoral. Even if the pope believes in spankings I am pretty sure he doesn’t believe that all parents must spank. Truthfully I don’t know what Pope Francis believes about it. What I can say is that if thatbus the only thing holding you back from the Church then you are more in line with the Church than many life long Catholics.

What is the LDS view on spanking? What if they also view spanking in the same way as the pope?

 

[Catholic1954]

As many of you know I have been researching Catholicism (and LDS) for quite some time. I was starting to be drawn to Catholicism and had hoped to start attending mass more regularly as soon as we had moved and settled. However another thread has thrown a spanner into the works…

Over on the “spanking ban” thread, I found out the pope advocates spanking. Now I believe it is physical abuse and am fiercely against it. I’m not sure I can join a church where the earthly leader is in favour of something I consider to be abuse.

My question here Is, how much impact does this belief of the popes have on the church as a whole? Is it merely his personal opinion and I can just put him down as a “bad pope” or does it have more influence over Catholics?

Now I don’t want this thread turning into a “is spanking OK”, there is already a thread to that but it has seriously put a spanner in the works and I am not sure if I can/should proceed?

Approval of spanking children (or not) is the Pope’s own opinion; he is allowed to have one that does not match our own. I’m sure his opinion is that Argentina has the best soccer team in the world; no one (outside of Argentina) agrees with that and it’s ok. Catholicism does not work on the opinions of our leaders, but on Truth revealed by God.

 

[TK421]

They were good enough to almost win the last World Cup.

I doubt Pope Francis follows soccer closely. He hasn’t watched TV in over 2 decades.

 

[adamhovey1988]

“Won’t” isn’t the same as “can’t”. As for spanking; I fully support corporal punishment, but I also respect the rights of parents to refrain from using it.

 

[exnihilo]

As a Catholic you aren’t obliged to take everything the Pope says as being dogma. In narrow circumstances you are. At the same time we should seriously consider what the Pope teaches.

While I don’t think the Church says every parent must spank his child I do think the constant teaching has been that spanking is acceptable and not abuse. We are supposed to learn from the Church. If you have an attitude that you’ll only believe what you think is right or true then you aren’t really being Catholic. You are really just creating and following your own religion.

 

[Nicea325]

They were good enough to almost win the last World Cup.

I doubt Pope Francis follows soccer closely. He hasn’t watched TV in over 2 decades.

Yup! But my boys from Germany beat them:thumbsup: Pope does not need to watch tv to follow soccer, all the info is in the touch of a button today.

 

[Techno2000]

On another note: I would never spank a dog.

You don’t have to… all you have to do is pretend you are.

 

[kimg901]

you would turn your back on Christ because you believe spanking a child is abuse? Spanking a child is fine, beating them is something else. Maybe that’s what these kids need is a good spanking so they quit acting like jerks instead of putting them on some medication. I spanked my 4 kids and guess what, they are just fine. But to each their own. Good luck trying to find your way but I think you already know what you should do.

 

[pianistclare]

I have attended an RCIA class but it was a bit ad hoc and not officially set up and even then wasn’t really about what the doctrines are etc (we read over the mass readings). I’m moving soon so was going to look another one up

Which is precisely why you should seek out a good Spiritual Director…work with him, and then share your experience with RCIA. I’m an RCIA Director as well as a few other hats, and I can honestly say, we get many people fleeing form other, pretty poor programs.

It’s not unheard of for a priest to take someone under his wing, particularly if her has a small parish. OR…a priest attached to a monastery, or a retreat center.

We recently had a man desiring to concert, and when questions we discovered he was VERY well formed, having studied and attended Mass and various parishes for a long time.
The Pastor and 3 Deacons interviewed him, and petitioned the Bishop to grant permission to not have him wait another year…he was received into the church last August at a Sunday Mass.

In short, if your local RCIA process is bad, you have options. Good luck!

 

[pianistclare]

Which is precisely why you should seek out a good Spiritual Director…work with him, and then share your experience with RCIA. I’m an RCIA Director as well as a few other hats, and I can honestly say, we get many people fleeing form other, pretty poor programs.

It’s not unheard of for a priest to take someone under his wing, particularly if her has a small parish. OR…a priest attached to a monastery, or a retreat center.

We recently had a man desiring to concert, and when questions we discovered he was VERY well formed, having studied and attended Mass and various parishes for a long time.
The Pastor and 3 Deacons interviewed him, and petitioned the Bishop to grant permission to not have him wait another year…he was received into the church last August at a Sunday Mass.

In short, if your local RCIA process is bad, you have options. Good luck!

Edit: CONVERT, not concert. Let too much time lapse to edit, sorry.

 

[joeybaggz]

…Over on the “spanking ban” thread, I found out the pope advocates spanking. Now I believe it is physical abuse and am fiercely against it. I’m not sure I can join a church where the earthly leader is in favour of something I consider to be abuse.

My question here Is, how much impact does this belief of the popes have on the church as a whole? Is it merely his personal opinion and I can just put him down as a “bad pope” or does it have more influence over Catholics?

Other posters have commented very well. I’ll add one thing. Remember our current Pope, Francis comes from a different culture than us in the U.S. or some other of the western nations. His understanding of spanking may be much different than ours. In the future pope from say, the Philippines or Australia, or Eastern Europe, etc. may render a personal opinion that is at odds with Western beliefs. As others have said, concern yourself with doctrine and dogma, not necessarily papal private opinions.

"On and by the way, if this is a real problem for you with the Catholic Church, I’d like to hear your opinions on some of the dogma and practices of the LDS.

Shalom

 

[Richard_White]

I have never heard of Pope Francis supporting spanking in the process of raising one’s children. However, don’t forget that he was born during a different time and that such discipline was very common when he was growing up.

Regardless through as to whether or not he support it to some degree, the Pope’s personal view on spanking as absolutely nothing to do with the Catholic Faith. His personal views on anything not a matter of faith and morals (like the economy, climate change, etc.) are not binding on Catholics and has nothing to do with you or your faith journey. So, please friend, just ignore it and move on with you discovery of God’s Truth in the Catholic Faith.

May God bless you and lead you to His Truth!

 

[Nigel7]

If in order to be Catholic we were all required to agree with everything a pope says then none of us would be Catholic.

 

[SwizzleStick]

If in order to be Catholic we were all required to agree with everything a pope says then none of us would be Catholic.

Exactly. The Pope is infallible only when he speaks ex cathedra on matters of faith and morals. Otherwise, he is only sharing his opinion, though it is likely an educated opinion. With that being said, I have to admit that this Pope has said some things that have given me pause because they seem to be pretty political. But, my faith in Christ’s Church does not rely on the Pope’s political opinions. His opinions in general are just that, his.

 

[grannymh]

Please consider the difference between free speech

and

doctrines duly declared with the wisdom of the Holy Spirit at a major ecumenical Catholic Church Council.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Each human person is worthy of profound respect.