I don't think I can do this

[Xantippe]

I forgot to mention that how Dave Ramsey arrived at the idea of the importance of a wife’s (name removed by moderator)ut for an entrepreneur is that 30 odd years ago, he was a 20-something real estate tycoon with seven figures worth of debt. He was doing all his business stuff by himself, with no (name removed by moderator)ut from his wife, and with no concern for the risk involved. One fine day, the bank started calling his debts, and his real estate portfolio started falling like a series of dominoes, foreclosing one after another, until finally, faced with lawsuits and no money to pay them, DR had to declare bankruptcy. He and his wife started rebuilding after that and they did it differently–they did it without debt, they did it with a much lower tolerance for risk, and they did it together.

daveramsey.com/article/who-do-you-trust/lifeandmoney_bankruptcy/

 

[TSB4]

My husband is still refusing to agree to an adoption. I really can’t handle another child… I hope I’m forgiven.

 

[Xantippe]

TSB4 said:

“My husband is still refusing to agree to an adoption. I really can’t handle another child… I hope I’m forgiven.”

Don’t have an abortion.

It doesn’t matter what your husband agrees to or doesn’t agree to. If you call Child Protective Services on yourself and tell them that you are pregnant and have four kids in addition and are losing your grip, it doesn’t matter what your husband agrees to or doesn’t agree to–he can’t stop you.

Go talk to a priest and call some pro-life hotlines and talk to your local crisis pregnancy centers and put your eligible kids in mother’s day out. If you have any savings at all, you can do this. In fact, the circumstances are so dire that I would recommend putting mother’s day out or a babysitter on credit and figuring it out later.

Don’t have an abortion–that is a permanent solution to a temporary problem and you will not forgive yourself, even if God will.

 

[TSB4]

TSB4 said:

“My husband is still refusing to agree to an adoption. I really can’t handle another child… I hope I’m forgiven.”

Don’t have an abortion.

It doesn’t matter what your husband agrees to or doesn’t agree to. If you call Child Protective Services on yourself and tell them that you are pregnant and have four kids in addition and are losing your grip, it doesn’t matter what your husband agrees to or doesn’t agree to–he can’t stop you.

Go talk to a priest and call some pro-life hotlines and talk to your local crisis pregnancy centers and put your eligible kids in mother’s day out. If you have any savings at all, you can do this. In fact, the circumstances are so dire that I would recommend putting mother’s day out or a babysitter on credit and figuring it out later.

Don’t have an abortion–that is a permanent solution to a temporary problem and you will not forgive yourself, even if God will.

If I call child protective services on myself I am putting my other children at risk. It’s completely unfair to have to put my other Children through unnecessary mess for this when there are other ways.

 

[baby_of_grace]

You need information and you need resources. Call a local women’s shelter and they can help you. You are not a bad person because you want out of your marriage, and you are not a bad person if you choose to make an adoption plan for your child. Only you know the circumstances of your situation. Get help soon. My friend just left her husband and found a women’s shelter by calling the local hospital. You and your children deserve to be happy. Much love

 

[Xantippe]

TSB4 said:

“If I call child protective services on myself I am putting my other children at risk. It’s completely unfair to have to put my other Children through unnecessary mess for this when there are other ways.”

Aren’t they at risk already with your current mental state? Your thought process is noticeably impaired and you seem overwhelmed. Also, you don’t need to actually call child protective services, but you need your husband to believe that you are capable of calling child protective services on yourself.

There are things in real life that are free or very inexpensive that you can do to improve your situation. You can call child protective services on yourself, you can talk to a pastor, you can call Catholic Charities, you can call pro-life hot lines, you can go to a crisis pregnancy center (or multiple ones) and ask for help, you can put your kids in mother’s day out, you can talk to your OB/GYN about your mental state–there are so many good options that you can do first thing tomorrow morning and have results within the week.

I would definitely see your OB/GYN first thing (maybe even call the nurse line right now describing ) and ask to do a psychological screening for depression. That will not cover all of your problems (obviously), but you probably already have an OB/GYN and a relationship with them, so it’s a good entry point for getting help.

Best wishes!

 

[TSB4]

TSB4 said:

“If I call child protective services on myself I am putting my other children at risk. It’s completely unfair to have to put my other Children through unnecessary mess for this when there are other ways.”

Aren’t they at risk already with your current mental state? Your thought process is noticeably impaired and you seem overwhelmed. Also, you don’t need to actually call child protective services, but you need your husband to believe that you are capable of calling child protective services on yourself.

There are things in real life that are free or very inexpensive that you can do to improve your situation. You can call child protective services on yourself, you can talk to a pastor, you can call Catholic Charities, you can call pro-life hot lines, you can go to a crisis pregnancy center (or multiple ones) and ask for help, you can put your kids in mother’s day out, you can talk to your OB/GYN about your mental state–there are so many good options that you can do first thing tomorrow morning and have results within the week.

I would definitely see your OB/GYN first thing (maybe even call the nurse line right now describing ) and ask to do a psychological screening for depression. That will not cover all of your problems (obviously), but you probably already have an OB/GYN and a relationship with them, so it’s a good entry point for getting help.

Best wishes!

It drives me nuts that being overwhelmed with no support system equals being depressed and needig help. How are my children in danger? Because I’m overwhelmed? Or because i suffer with panic disorder like millions of other Americans?

 

[Xantippe]

TSB4 said:

“It drives me nuts that being overwhelmed with no support system equals being depressed and needig help. How are my children in danger? Because I’m overwhelmed? Or because i suffer with panic disorder like millions of other Americans?”

I don’t know if you’re depressed or not, but your OB/GYN will have a questionnaire that you can do to figure out if you are or aren’t depressed. I’ve filled out one of those at my OB/GYN’s office (when I was very blue after a miscarriage). At the time, I was really struggling with some personal relationships, but looking back now, I can see that there was a disproportion between my difficulties and my emotions, and I believe that that disproportion (real problems getting supersized by bad brain chemistry) is typical of depression.

You may not be able to hear it, but there’s a degree of hopelessness in what you have been writing that doesn’t really match your actual circumstances, as difficult as they are. Your situation is difficult, but not impossible, and there are a lot of morally acceptable ways out.

You talk about having no support, but are you looking for support or taking advantage of available support? Minimally, you should make an appointment and talk to a pastor and talk to your OB/GYN. As I said earlier, call the nurse line for your doctor’s office right now and don’t get off the phone until you get help of some kind.

 

[TSB4]

TSB4 said:

“It drives me nuts that being overwhelmed with no support system equals being depressed and needig help. How are my children in danger? Because I’m overwhelmed? Or because i suffer with panic disorder like millions of other Americans?”

I don’t know if you’re depressed or not, but your OB/GYN will have a questionnaire that you can do to figure out if you are or aren’t depressed. I’ve filled out one of those at my OB/GYN’s office (when I was very blue after a miscarriage). At the time, I was really struggling with some personal relationships, but looking back now, I can see that there was a disproportion between my difficulties and my emotions, and I believe that that disproportion (real problems getting supersized by bad brain chemistry) is typical of depression.

You may not be able to hear it, but there’s a degree of hopelessness in what you have been writing that doesn’t really match your actual circumstances, as difficult as they are. Your situation is difficult, but not impossible, and there are a lot of morally acceptable ways out.

You talk about having no support, but are you looking for support or taking advantage of available support? Minimally, you should make an appointment and talk to a pastor and talk to your OB/GYN. As I said earlier, call the nurse line for your doctor’s office right now and don’t get off the phone until you get help of some kind.

Of course there is a sense of hopelessness. I will not deny this. My every waking moment is dictated by 4 little unruly children who seem to get worse with each passing day. There really is no way of sugar coating that. I love my children, VERY much. However, they make it very hard to do my job with a smile on my face always. Add in an unsupportive husband, who is always on his phone, the computer, taking trips when he wants AND an unwanted pregnancy. I would be worried about my sanity if i held it all in. I need some form of release. I feel myself slowly losing it… My almost 8 year old talks back like a teenager most days, drives me absolutely nuts. The boys are riots. Constant ignoring me, jumping, running, fighting, crying… then theres the 2 year old. Terrible twos they say? I think she invented it. I cannot go to a single public place with my children without getting embarrassed. We go out to eat, kids are sitting down respectfully, meanwhile mine are constantly doing what they shouldn’t.
It is bad enough I live in a society that frowns upon large families. I do not fit in ANYWHERE. No one I know has this amount of children aside from my great grandmother who had nine. Everyone else, family and friends alike, all had only 1 or 2. MAYBE 3. So the fact that I already have to fight to show I’m doing whats “right” in having my children and allowing them life, is making it very hard when i myself am not happy in my own position. The older my children get, the harder my job gets. There are days when I do not want to even be bothered or even try to do anything with them because i know they’ll just ruin it. I want to scream, and cry most days.

in a perfect world, i would either A, have a supportive husband who is more involved willingly. or B, be able o afford help. I question God, I really do. I don’t have either so what is my stance? I am at my limit. I feel like I am being tested to the highest degree. I am beginning to envy women who have fertility problems. Or those who have only one child to focus on. I wish i had done things differently. I thought I could do this whole, “trust in GOD” big family business, but I just can’t. Its too much for me. Im miserable, my kids are beginning to show signs of misery. Im in over my head. This was a mistake… One that I will not make again. If i am not forgiven, so be it. I am here struggling without any relief. If he sees all, either he is ignoring me, or doesn’t care what I’m going through or feeling. And that is very very disheartening.

 

[Xantippe]

When are you going to talk to your doctor or a pastor about how you feel? Talk to somebody in real life.

TSB4 said:

“My almost 8 year old talks back like a teenager most days, drives me absolutely nuts.”

A kid this age can go spend the day (or a morning) helping sick grandma. Kids that age (even mouthy ones like yours) can be angels for people who aren’t their moms. Don’t feel bad about it–this kid could actually be a huge help. Recruit your mom to keep him or her busy. He or she can help grandma with grocery shopping, push her cart, unpack her groceries, take out her trash, help make her lunch, etc.

Talk to your mom about this and set up a trial run. If it’s a success, the younger kids will be wanting to earn this particular privilege. (When I was a kid, I’d get sent over to my great-grandma’s, sometimes by myself, sometimes with a sister.)

“The boys are riots. Constant ignoring me, jumping, running, fighting, crying…”

Are your big kids in school? And have you discussed your concerns with teachers, child psychologists or your pediatrician? And do they spend enough time outside?

I’m sure your kids are more active than average, but I think you’re suffering from a typical mom’s optical illusion where our particular kids are louder and naughtier than everybody else’s. I’ve not infrequently had the experience of thinking my kids were being bad, and then had some stranger walk up and compliment me on their behavior.

There’s also the issue that you haven’t yet engaged your big kids in the project of helping you and taking care of you. With my last pregnancy, we had to announce it to our kids at 15 weeks, as I had started having scary bleeding and needed to go on bedrest for two weeks, followed by the rest of the second trimester on physical restrictions, followed by gestational diabetes for the third trimester (at that point, pretty much the only thing I was doing was following my diet very, very strictly). The kids needed to start making their own school lunches and hanging up their own laundry and bringing dirty laundry to the washer (they were 9 and 7 at the time). That was a huge adjustment, as previously I had done all of that for them. Of course, it helped a lot that my husband was laying down the law. But once the baby was born, I got my energy back and I was suddenly Wonderwoman. Since then, I’ve been able to manage the big kids pretty well by myself, although I have to confess that I’m no longer the homework goddess that I used to be before we had a third.

I only have three kids (11, almost 9 and 1) and I’ve been through some hard times, particularly with my oldest, who is mildly autistic and was TERRIBLE from about 6-8. But she has grown out of so many bad behaviors–she used to literally throw pencils at me point first when she was tired of doing homework or throw forks at me point first. She’d tantrum for hours and I’d get these very uncomfortable phone calls from school about stuff she’d been doing and wonder when she was finally going to get expelled. Those were hard times, and sometimes it seemed quite impossible, but I kept reading books on behavior modification, I kept taking her to therapy, I talked to teachers and psychologists, I read blogs, I watched half a dozen hours of a seminar by Howard Glasser, I did a point system, and I eventually prevailed. I now have two big kids who do what they are told. Not necessarily the first time, and not necessarily with a smile, but I have two big kids who get that I say what I mean and I mean what I say. I don’t ask them for anything I am not willing to enforce. They want to watch cartoons–fine. But first, they need to go hang up 20 items of clothing from their laundry basket. No laundry, no cartoons. No room cleaning, no Minecraft. The kids believe I’m tough. I feel like a big marshmallow, but my secret is that I never ask them to do anything that I am not willing to follow through on and enforce.

“The older my children get, the harder my job gets. There are days when I do not want to even be bothered or even try to do anything with them because i know they’ll just ruin it. I want to scream, and cry most days.”

Talk to your doctor and talk to the kids’ doctor.

It’s not normal for things to get worse as the kids get older. Either there’s something wrong with them (which is possible) or there’s something wrong with you (which is possible) or maybe both you and they have some problems.

In any case, talk to your family doctors. Don’t just despair without reaching out to people in real life who can help you.

“I thought I could do this whole, “trust in GOD” big family business, but I just can’t. Its too much for me. Im miserable, my kids are beginning to show signs of misery. Im in over my head. This was a mistake…”

As they say in the Islamic world, trust in God, but tie up your camel.

There is no necessity of having unlimited children, no matter what the circumstances. There is no moral obligation to do that.

You had a much more comfortable income just half a year ago. If things were better then, they can be better again.

Oh, and your two-year-old can go to mother’s day out.

 

[LittleRose]

It drives me nuts that being overwhelmed with no support system equals being depressed and needig help. How are my children in danger? Because I’m overwhelmed? Or because i suffer with panic disorder like millions of other Americans?

I am so sorry you are going through this. Panic disorders stink on a level that many people cannot possibly comprehend. I know because I am the child of someone who has one, and have one myself. I hate the suffering that my dad endured because of it, but I am so happy for him because the help that he eventually sought worked, and I am so proud of him because he has come such a long way. He also had to deal with being overwhelmed, judged, and feeling like he was losing his mind. Some of it was the disorder. Some of it was just…life. But handling the lousy unfair things that life throws at him didn’t get to him in the same way once he started to get help with the panic disorder. He finds so much more joy in his life now.

You’re not weak, and you are not crazy. Panic disorder is a serious medical issue. It can be treated without meds (my dad learned to manage his with the help of a skilled Christian therapist, and does not take any meds for it!) It is important to get medical (name removed by moderator)ut, though, since thyroid disorders and hormone imbalances can make panic disorders worse, especially in women. If you can, try to see an OBGYN trained in the use of NaPro technology, as they are particularly adept at identifying hormonal issues and correcting them. Plus, they won’t just throw antidepressants at you–so refreshing!

Panic disorders do affect parenting (again, not my dad’s fault–or yours), so I can say from experience that it does benefit your kids as well as yourself to get help. My dad tried really hard not to let his disorder affect his parenting, and I admire him the more for his effort, but it did have an impact. I saw the difference after his condition was better managed. Again, I say this not to place blame. Having a panic disorder is no more your fault than if you had fibromyalgia or cancer. I say this hoping that you will know that some on this thread may be suggesting that you get help out of genuine concern for your well-being, not as a judgment. On a personal note, I will also say that my dad’s experience has been useful to me in another way–I have someone to talk to about my own panic issues. If any of your kids find themselves with the same issue (I hope not, but just in case) you may be able to be there for them in a similar way later on, once you are in a better place emotionally.

Also, seeking regular spiritual direction from a pastor or priest can be helpful–it doesn’t make the problem go away, any more than it would if your issue were, say, chronic joint pain, but it may help you find some peace in the midst of the chaos, and maybe even to revive your prayer life.

Please take care of yourself (You are allowed to take the time to do that!) and seek out resources in the community. That doesn’t mean you’re a bad mother! Good mothers need support too. Sometimes I think good mothers are more likely do be overwhelmed, because they are so aware of the importance of what they do for their kids, and so afraid of making mistakes or not doing enough. Seeking out help is not a sign of weakness. It is a recognition of the fact that all of us need people to support us. No one should have to face a crisis–or even everyday life–alone.

Catholic Charities, the Gabriel Project, moms’ groups, and many others are out there. God still loves you. He has placed people in the world who want to help you, your first children, and your unborn child. Please let them. There is hope.

I will be sending prayers and virtual hugs your way. I wish I could do more.

 

[LittleRose]

Dear thread participants: Stuff like this is soooo not helpful.

Either there’s something wrong with them (which is possible) or there’s something wrong with you (which is possible) or maybe both you and they have some problems.

 

[Xantippe]

Little Rose said:

“Dear thread participants: Stuff like this is soooo not helpful.”

How would you diplomatically phrase the idea that it isn’t actually normal for children to get more difficult as they get older? To me, that suggests 1) either the OP’s psychological state is worsening (so that it seems like her kids are more difficult) or 2) that the OP’s children have some sort of non-typical behavioral issues or 3) a little of 1 and 2.

As a person with some experience with dealing with a non-neurotypical child and who has done a lot of reading on behavioral problems in children over the past half decade, that comment about the OP’s kids becoming more difficult as they got older immediately drew my attention. This definitely needs further investigation.

The OP should seek expert advice and evaluation. It may be that one or more of her kids is going to need an IEP, if they do not already have one.

 

[oneofmany]

If a mother is overwhelmed with panic disorder and feels lousy everyday then the children will not be disciplined like they should and they will run wild. People, this is not rocket science.

Don’t over analyze this. This mother needs help from her doctors and her family. She needs to kick her husband in the butt and make him help her. They are his children too.

She needs to find help in her community, to talk to her priest and other women in the parish to find mother’s groups for support, etc, etc. Even finding a neighborhood babysitter so she can have some time off would be nice.

If you can’t find a counselor you can afford, every city has counseling that can be paid for on a sliding scale. By the way you are not the first mother who has ever felt this way. The counselor can get you in touch with a lot of help in your community. There is help out there.

 

[LittleRose]

Little Rose said:

How would you diplomatically phrase the idea that it isn’t actually normal for children to get more difficult as they get older?

I suppose one might start with this^…
…but it might be better to leave out things like, “something is wrong with you”.

 

[TSB4]

Little Rose said:

“Dear thread participants: Stuff like this is soooo not helpful.”

How would you diplomatically phrase the idea that it isn’t actually normal for children to get more difficult as they get older? To me, that suggests 1) either the OP’s psychological state is worsening (so that it seems like her kids are more difficult) or 2) that the OP’s children have some sort of non-typical behavioral issues or 3) a little of 1 and 2.

As a person with some experience with dealing with a non-neurotypical child and who has done a lot of reading on behavioral problems in children over the past half decade, that comment about the OP’s kids becoming more difficult as they got older immediately drew my attention. This definitely needs further investigation.

The OP should seek expert advice and evaluation. It may be that one or more of her kids is going to need an IEP, if they do not already have one.

They ardmore difficult because they’re fighting, making more of a mess, they are louder, and know how to talk back. When we are out and they want something and I say no, total meltdown from my 4 year old. my 7 year old will question why, and have a million phrases to say back and challenge me. Then for the remainder of the shopping trip she will have a pouty face crying. Not saying they are horrible children, but I’m dealing with 4 little different personalities and 4 different age groups. Yes, as they get older, it is getting much harder and less enjoyable parenting them.

 

[mommamaree]

I have been in your shoes, and recently. My children were acting out, family life was chaos, I couldn’t take them in public. It was as if we had reached critical mass and it felt like I would never achieve any sort of control over a bad situation. So, I prayed for grace. I couldn’t really pray much. I just would plead to God “Lord, help me!” or “Lord, give me some grace!” And God heard my prayers. Day by day, things improved ever so slightly. Maybe one day, I had a happy snuggle with my most difficult child. Another day, I got a chance to spend a half hour in the kitchen tidying up, while listening to my favorite Catholic podcasts. Another day, the weather was glorious and I opened up the house to air it out and lit a candle and our moods were lifted. Little graces, day by day. Letting go of unrealistic expectations, looking for the daily miracles, trying to get enough sleep and spending quality time with the children doing fun things like play-doh or crafts or watching a movie or reading books (whatever works with our daily schedule and allowed us to connect personally in a positive way). Over the course of the year, things changed dramatically. Now I am expecting my fifth, and we are probably going to go through a big change again, but at least I know that the hard times will pass. They will pass for you, too. I really encourage you to look into the MOPS group or a mother’s day out program, or both. They meet the needs of overwhelmed mothers in different ways, so I think taking advantage of both is best.
I believe you when you say you are not depressed, but do suffer from panic attacks or anxiety disorder. I had panic attacks when I was going through my difficult time, too, but I wasn’t depressed. Panic is normal when you are overwhelmed, but sometimes our panic can paralyze us and then we don’t know who to ask for the help we need. Counseling may or may not help you. I chose not to continue counseling, as it was not helpful for me. Time away from the kids once or twice a week, was exactly what I needed to survive until things began to improve. So please do check them out.
And please, do not make any permanent decisions right now. These problems you are experiencing are not that uncommon, and they are temporary. There are others out there who know what you are going through and will want to help you with friendship and support, if you will only reach out to them. But you have to reach out to them first, in real life, not just on the forums, so they can be there for you. If you were my neighbor, I would certainly want to come over to visit, to let you vent, to babysit, to help with meals or tidying up, and all those things. So I am sure such people exist in your community, too.

 

[HandyAndy]

Unfortunately the days of smacking a child or disciplining them has all but disappeared, accept for those parents who have gone to ground on the subject. You will not hear their voices, because they are shouted down and ridiculed. Make no mistake about it though, there is a generation of children we are witnessing on a daily basis who lack manners, respect and the world seems to owe them. Religion is just another tool of oppression for this new generation of free thinkers.

With one or two children…your time outs and long discussions with a two year old may get you across the line. Power to you. But with multiples of children, you will be time poor and you will need to bring some order to the ciaos. For your sake and for the sake of the children. Measured corporal punishment works and works extremely well. NOTE…measured.
Once implemented…a simple side ways look should be all that is required. It is a healthy respect for the law…and that law is you.
Just try managing time outs for four or more children. Say twenty minutes each. How much time are you prepared to waste as a prison officer? And where will they serve this time out? Their rooms…I’d put my hand up for that. Children are smarter then we give them credit for. Sometimes they will do the wrong thing in full knowledge of the punishment. They know the wrong thing is worth it. You must give them pause for thought.
And during all these time outs…what happens to family time? There is only so many hours in a day. To me…the evidence of the non smacking era is generating teenagers that are in serious trouble.
After the first smack…the simple threat of the next one will often be all that is required. By their 8th or 9th birthday…no longer necessary. A healthy respect for authority has been established. That healthy respect will then follow them into their adult lives.
Raise your kids YOUR way. Do what works for YOU. Don’t try to parent from a book. They are little people who have YOUR DNA. What would work on you, will work on them. Pick up that rolled up newspaper and whop the table with it. The noise alone will bring things to a halt. Sure gonna make you feel good. Say what you need to say and whop it again with “NOW!” You must establish boundaries and once the discipline is under control, you will spend many many many hours of family time, laughing, sharing funny stories, going out to places and having people compliment you on such well behaved children. Compliments that the children will hear, reenforcing the behavior.
Any way…its up to you. Get control of your kids and you will create a bond that even your husband will be jealous of. Your children will be a blessing that will grow as they grow.
We have four children with the last three being triplets. At one stage it was four under five years of age. We could take them anywhere…within reason, however home was our sanctuary where routine and discipline ruled. Once they were all in bed by 8pm, it was our time to watch a movie or what ever. To this day it is still our time and we rarely go to bed before 11pm. Just a habit that we enjoy. Our youngest three are now 22 and we survived through discipline and routine. These are the very reasons we never lost each other along the way. When it was all about the kids…it was all about the kids. When it was all about us…it was all about us. It was never perpetual ciaos. That would test even the most saintly among us I’m afraid.

 

[Xantippe]

TSB4 said:

"When we are out and they want something and I say no, total meltdown from my 4 year old. my 7 year old will question why, and have a million phrases to say back and challenge me. Then for the remainder of the “shopping trip she will have a pouty face crying.”

When my big kids were littler, we instituted the idea of a “special item” that each child was entitled to at the grocery store…if and only if their behavior was good for the whole grocery store visit. The special item could be up to $3 in value (although if I like the item, I might be flexible). If the kids had their own funds available, I would chip in $3 and they would chip in the rest. (For a while, we had Hot Wheels for 50 cents or a dollar, which was very affordable–my oldest still has a huge collection of them.)

Now that my big kids are so big, store behavior is no longer a problem, but they are still entitled to one “special item” of their choice at the store, and only one. I take their (name removed by moderator)ut with regard to other stuff (it’s really helpful with regard to making sure we have food they’ll eat), but they only get to choose that one extra item each.

Of course, I have to add that there were quite a few years where I would NEVER have taken two kids into the store by myself for any major shopping.

A while back, my daughter chose a pack of marzipan as her special item and paid the extra cost (it’s expensive stuff). When she got it, I had no idea what she was ever going to do with a pack of marzipan. Today, it was her brother’s birthday and she dyed the marzipan green and molded a Minecraft cake topper out of the marzipan for the birthday cake.

 

[Xantippe]

HandyAndy said:

“With one or two children…your time outs and long discussions with a two year old may get you across the line. Power to you.”

Agreed–I’ve never understood the concept of time out.

If a child is obedient enough to stay in time out, you’ve got a pretty good kid.

“For your sake and for the sake of the children. Measured corporal punishment works and works extremely well. NOTE…measured.
Once implemented…a simple side ways look should be all that is required. It is a healthy respect for the law…and that law is you.”

Not really–there are lots of stubborn children who will laugh in your face if you whack them and tell you it doesn’t hurt at all. And then what? Whack them harder?

“By their 8th or 9th birthday…no longer necessary. A healthy respect for authority has been established. That healthy respect will then follow them into their adult lives.”

I agree that just getting kids into a groove of respecting you eliminates 80% of the work of discipline. I have a kid who just turned 9 who I never, ever have to punish at all. The worst case scenario is that he will obey with dragging feet and a whine, but he always obeys. Even a firm word is a very harsh punishment for this kid. (His older sister is a tougher customer.)

I’ve probably mentioned this before (maybe even in this thread), but I really like Howard Glasser’s “Transforming the Difficult Child.”

“What would work on you, will work on them. Pick up that rolled up newspaper and whop the table with it.”

Now, that wouldn’t work with me. It wouldn’t have worked on me at 8, and it wouldn’t work on me at 38. I was a stubborn kid, I wouldn’t let on that being hit hurt me (my mom once broke a spatula on me and she used a horse quirt on me at least a couple times), and seeing my parents lose their tempers made me lose respect for them. They are decent people, but that was not their brightest moment.

I would get these kids outside as much as possible. I feel I can hear winter cabin fever in the OP’s postings.

By the way, one thing I did with my big kids during my last pregnancy was to go to the What to Expect Website and read them the weekly developmental updates so they’d know what their little sibling was up to. One of the kids was really worried about the baby (with reason), so it was comforting for them to get a progress report. It was also really educational. (You have to stop at some point, though–thanks to that website, I somehow found myself telling my 7-year-old son about cervical function.)