I don't understand how some of my trad. latin mass going friends are anti-semitic!

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TMC said:
I agree. People talk about how the Pope could have done more, and maybe he could have. So could have Chamberlain, and Roosevelt and the rest of the Western world. Nazism was not Catholic.
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What? He single-handedly saved the Church and Vatican, as well as 7,000+ precious Jewish lives, by housing them in monasteries and nunneries, the Vatican, and even the Pope’s private papal palace, and he openly spoke out against Hitler and the evils of Naziism.
 
I think some people are confusing the Jewish race of people with the religion of Judaism. There are people of the Jewish race who are Catholics, so Judaism has nothing to do with them in particular. Then there is Zionism, a political system that state of Israel supports, which I believe is evil. Some of the posts seem to have syncretised all three into one general group and it’s getting very confusing.

I pray for the conversion of all non-Catholics, including the Jews who have not yet converted to the Catholic Church. And yes, I have been called an anti-Semite on other boards for praying for their conversion. It’s the politically correct thing to do.
 
jssaxon said:
Anti-Semitism has been long a tradition of the RCC, so why does it surprise you that Traditionalist Catholics also value that longstanding tradition? It’s only recently that the Church stopped indulging in anti-Semitism. Vatican II had a lot to do with this change, as the Church leaders saw the blatent result of years of European anti-Semitism culminating in the Jewish Holocaust and wisely changed their tune.
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You must be a protestant or non-Catholic. They always use RCC for Holy Mother Church and make accusations without any supporting facts.
 
marymonde said:
You must be a protestant or non-Catholic. They always use RCC for Holy Mother Church and make accusations without any supporting facts.
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If he’s a protestant I’d like to ask if he considers the New Testament anti-Semitic, considers the Gospel of St. John anti-Semitic, considers chapter 8 of that Gospel anti-Semitic, and considers Jesus anti-Semitic.

Or is he just here to take a few baseball swings at “the RCC”?
 
Again, while I’m not a member of the SSPX, I do agree with them on the subject, and they make it very clear that Jewish people today are NOT collectively responsible for the crucifixion of Jesus. However they are cursed in the sense that they follow a false religion that was responsible for calling for the death of the Saviour of the world. Therefore I do not consider Jewish people to be inherently evil, but their religion most assuredly is.
 
GerardP said:
Another bogus attack on the Catholic Church. It’s amazing how you dislike the “broad brush” when it’s directed against Jews but you have no problem using it yourself. Hypocrite.

This is a “So, I see you recently stopped beating your wife.” statement.

No. Actually the rise of Hitler was due to his aping Judaism, the whole concept of “the Master Race” is a counterpart to “the Chosen People.”

The Church’s reinforcement of teaching against racial bias was undergone precisely to prevent people from calumniating the Church and using it’s teachings about the error of Judaism as an excuse for persecution.

This of course has been repaid by liberal Jews with nothing but further calumniation. And meanwhile like their Muslim brethren, you will rarely if ever hear outspoken leaders in the Jewish community condemn injustices from their own ranks.

The tribal mentality of many Jewish communities is the cause of their troubles, not their race.

Rabbis Marvin Heir, Schmuley Boteach and Abe Foxman (the theif) make their attacks on Catholicism in particular very prominent then they play the victim the whole time. In discussing the issue, cartoonist Will Eisner once described it as a race towards gaining the victim status.
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Much of your post sounds anti-Semitic and offensive.
 
jssaxon said:
Much of your post sounds anti-Semitic and offensive.
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No it doesn’t. If you want to argue a point, do it.

Don’t throw out cowardly accusations because you “feel” something “sounds” “offensive” or “anti-semitic.” How you “feel” could change more often than your socks.

Hypocritical attacks by bigoted anti-Catholics like yourself show that you have no regard for actual persecutions of the weak.

Terms like “anti-semite” and “offensive” when used willy nilly like that lose all meaning. They are used like clubs to bully and intimidate anyone who interrupts your bigoted attacks on the Catholic Church.

And your misuse of those words is an attack on those Jews that have been persecuted and slaughtered in acts of evil by men throughout history.

Defend your ludicrous false accusations against the Church “indulging in anti-semitism” or put a lid on it.
 
Metaron said:
TMC;3079877:
I agree. People talk about how the Pope could have done more, and maybe he could have. So could have Chamberlain, and Roosevelt and the rest of the Western world. Nazism was not Catholic.
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What? He single-handedly saved the Church and Vatican, as well as 7,000+ precious Jewish lives, by housing them in monasteries and nunneries, the Vatican, and even the Pope’s private papal palace, and he openly spoke out against Hitler and the evils of Naziism.
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I’m sorry, maybe I was unclear. I think we probably agree on this issue. I am not saying that the Pius XII did not do a lot, quite the opposite. My point is that ex post judments of his actions are unfair, particular in the context of what other leaders were doing at the time.

The point of referring to Roosevelt is that the common perception is that Roosevelt and the US did a lot to end Nazism and thereby the Holocaust. Unquestionably Roosevelt could have done a lot more for European Jews. Chamberlain and other European leaders obviously could have done more.

My point was that its easy to sit here almost 70 years later and point fingers. Within the times Western leaders did what they thought they could. Some did a lot, some did less. Its easy to second guess them now, but it makes no sense to single out the Church for not doing more when, for example, Roosevelt refused to relax immigrations quotas to allow Jewish refugees to enter the US, Brazil was reneging on agreements (brokered by Pius) to take refugees, and so on. Pius had no Army, millions of his followers were within control of the Axis, and world leaders knew they could (and did) break their promises to him and there was little he could do about it. The Church, Pius, and individual Catholics did a great deal to help Jews, no question about it. Certainly everyone could have done more. Everyone made mistakes. I am trying to say that to single out the Church as not doing enough is not accurate in historical context.
 
GerardP said:
No it doesn’t. If you want to argue a point, do it.

Don’t throw out cowardly accusations because you “feel” something “sounds” “offensive” or “anti-semitic.” How you “feel” could change more often than your socks.

Hypocritical attacks by bigoted anti-Catholics like yourself show that you have no regard for actual persecutions of the weak.

Terms like “anti-semite” and “offensive” when used willy nilly like that lose all meaning. They are used like clubs to bully and intimidate anyone who interrupts your bigoted attacks on the Catholic Church.

And your misuse of those words is an attack on those Jews that have been persecuted and slaughtered in acts of evil by men throughout history.

Defend your ludicrous false accusations against the Church “indulging in anti-semitism” or put a lid on it.
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Thanks for proving my point with your ad hominem post. You obviously represent the Traditionalist point of view.
 
zionism gives jews a bad name these days. i also think that just because you might say something against the jews it’s not right to be labeled an anti-semite. i’ve known a few good jews, i’ve known some that fit the stereotype, just like any other people. also, if you look at the leaders of communism during the revolution and early days, you will find many that held postions of power. i don’t think it’s odd considering communism was thought up by a jew, and essentially a highly developed form of saducceeism. that’s my two cents though…
 
xmydreamsfadex said:
zionism gives jews a bad name these days. i also think that just because you might say something against the jews it’s not right to be labeled an anti-semite. i’ve known a few good jews, i’ve known some that fit the stereotype, just like any other people. also, if you look at the leaders of communism during the revolution and early days, you will find many that held postions of power. i don’t think it’s odd considering communism was thought up by a jew, and essentially a highly developed form of saducceeism. that’s my two cents though…
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And German Nazism was led by a Catholic. 🤷
 
Shoshana said:
Code:
Only by name.
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The poster seemed to be blaming all Jews for the actions of Karl Marx, who was an avowed athiest and not a practising Jew. The opposite can be done by blaming all Catholics for the actions of Hitler, Mussolini, etc.

Is it rational to blame Jews for the actions of a few?🤷
 
Why is it acceptable to go on a tirade any time any place and make accusations against the Catholic Church regarding alleged crimes against the Jews, yet so many people, including Catholics, flip out and call you an anti-Semite if you bring up Jewish crimes against the Catholic Church ? It’s historical fact, NOT anti-Semitism, that communism in the 20th century produced a very disproportionately high number of Jewish leaders who viciously persecuted Christianity in Eastern Europe and in Spain.
 
Seamus_L said:
Why is it acceptable to go on a tirade any time any place and make accusations against the Catholic Church regarding alleged crimes against the Jews, yet so many people, including Catholics, flip out and call you an anti-Semite if you bring up Jewish crimes against the Catholic Church ? It’s historical fact, NOT anti-Semitism, that communism in the 20th century produced a very disproportionately high number of Jewish leaders who viciously persecuted Christianity in Eastern Europe and in Spain.
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Seamus,

That is a really, really loaded question. To answer it many people will be branded anti-semitic:(
 
Judaism didn’t exaclty thrive in Eastern Europe either under Communism. As for the large (proportionately number of jewish leaders in the movement, this was out of a desire to overthrow Tzarist Russia, which had been brutal to the Jewish community.
 
Seamus_L said:
Why is it acceptable to go on a tirade any time any place and make accusations against the Catholic Church regarding alleged crimes against the Jews, yet so many people, including Catholics, flip out and call you an anti-Semite if you bring up Jewish crimes against the Catholic Church ? It’s historical fact, NOT anti-Semitism, that communism in the 20th century produced a very disproportionately high number of Jewish leaders who viciously persecuted Christianity in Eastern Europe and in Spain.
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Code:
A few more wise words…thank you. 🙂 I am so tired ot hearing ‘anti’…
 
Seamus_L said:
Why is it acceptable to go on a tirade any time any place and make accusations against the Catholic Church regarding alleged crimes against the Jews, yet so many people, including Catholics, flip out and call you an anti-Semite if you bring up Jewish crimes against the Catholic Church ?
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Because anti-Catholicism is one of the great American pastimes both in the north, where convents were burned, and the conservative south, where a Catholic priest was shot in cold blood and the killer successfully defended by the Freemason Hugo Black.

It’s perfectly acceptable to accuse the Church of anti-Semitism, even though the Messiah is a Jew, as were the greatest saints of both the old and new covenants. It’s perfectly acceptable to call Pius XII Hitler’s pope, or to say that Christian anti-Semitism led to the Shoah.

The double standard would be obvious if a public figure were to make the same sort of accusations against the Jewish community, e.g.: “the Synagogue has a long history of Talmudic Christ-hatred which led to the Bolshevik holocaust…”
 
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