I don't understand the problem with the title "Mary, Mother of God"

[rbarcia]

What does any of this have to do with Paul? Were talking Matthew?

Just because “Some” of the Jewish Kings (many of the disobedient ones may I add) had their mother as a queen? …Exactly the reason. Doesn’t have to be Biblical its Historical and I don’t believe you can consider Jesus disobedient or Mary for that matter Gald you said it not me:thumbsup:

Disobediant has nothing to do with anything… Look at the geneology of Jesus Christm lot of sinners in there. God does not work in a perfect straight line, People are “flesh” live in a fallen world, and the fact is some will be sinners.

Peace

You didn’t answer my question, why do you call Mary a queen? Where do you get that in scripture? I know where you get it in catholic church? where is Mary a queen?
You focused on disobedience comment rather than the “some” of the kings.

You are purposely trying to change the topic off the main point of the question.

The disobedience of the kings was not the focus of my question.

Why do you call Mary a queen? Because historically, “Some” of the Jewish kings had their living mothers remain as queen (because they were serving as queen when their husband died?)

 

[CopticChristian]

He calls the Ephesians saints. The word saints is used plural to refer to a group of believers.

The word you are saying “Saint” is not used in the Bible as you are saying.

Acts 9:13
But Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard from many of this man, how much evil he did to thy saints at Jerusalem:

saints in Jerusalem were living people.

Acts 9:32
And it came to pass, as Peter went throughout all parts, he came down also to the saints that dwelt at Lydda.

saints in Lydda were living people

Acts 26:10
And this I also did in Jerusalem: and I both shut up many of the saints in prisons, having received authority from the chief priests, and when they were put to death I gave my vote against them.

saints were put in prison by Paul

Romans 16:15
Salute Philologus and Julia, Nereus and his sister, and Olympas, and all the saints that are with them.

Come on, all over Paul’s letters, Paul refers to groups of living people as saints.

Protestants frustrate the heck out of me. I know, I know, you think you read and understand Scripture, and the Holy Spirit will lead you into all truth. Most Protestants have been led by a Bible Study, led by a pastor as they are inculcated in Protestant theology taking notes and then think they can reason with an English Translation of a book written in Greek.

Let me introduce you to the Greek Interlinear.

interlinearbible.org/acts/9-13.htm

The word is

40 hágios – properly, different (unlike), other (“otherness”), holy; for the believer, 40 (hágios) means “likeness of nature with the Lord” because “different from the world.”

The fundamental (core) meaning of 40 (hágios) is “different” – thus a temple in the 1st century was hagios (“holy”) because different from other buildings (Wm. Barclay). In the NT, 40 /hágios (“holy”) has the “technical” meaning “different from the world” because “like the Lord.”

[40 (hágios) implies something “set apart” and therefore “different (distinguished/distinct)” – i.e. “other,” because special to the Lord.]

NASB Word Usage
Holy (92), holy (62), Holy of Holies (1), holy one (5), holy ones (1), holy place (7), most holy (1), saint (1), saints (59), saints’ (1), sanctuary (2).

most holy, saint.

From hagos (an awful thing) (compare hagnos, thalpo); sacred (physically, pure, morally blameless or religious, ceremonially, consecrated) – (most) holy (one, thing), saint.

So, understand that all your babbling and reasoning about a word that was translated as “saint” indicates you have not consulted a Concordance or a Greek interlinear.

The word you are saying “Saint” is not used in the Bible as you are saying.

You should reframe this as the word “Saint” that I assume has been translated for me to read as “Saint” can be argued to not be used as used in the Bible based on my lack of understanding that this is a Greek word that could be translated in many different ways and I probably have no argument.

 

[CopticChristian]

You didn’t answer my question, why do you call Mary a queen? Where do you get that in scripture? I know where you get it in catholic church? where is Mary a queen?
You focused on disobedience comment rather than the “some” of the kings.

You are purposely trying to change the topic off the main point of the question.

The disobedience of the kings was not the focus of my question.

Why do you call Mary a queen? Because historically, “Some” of the Jewish kings had their living mothers remain as queen (because they were serving as queen when their husband died?)

I am working on a formal answer for you. This notion of lack of understanding is based on a 20th century Protestant that knows nothing of what the first century Jew knew.

Consider that the Jews were waiting for a Messiah from the line of David.

Consider that they were waiting for a King, an earthly King and in thier heads they had a vision of the King and all that was recorded about King David.

Consider that the Ark of the Covenant was nowhere to be found.

Consider that you may want to look up the the following article. I have a copy right here. There is another and when I find it I will let you know.

“The Queen Mother and the Cult in Ancient Israel”…Susan Ackerman, Dartmouth College, Journal of Biblical Literature.

For starters do a search on “Gebira”.

If the Jews knew of the Kingdom of David and the way the Kingdom was arranged, they knew about the Ark, they knew about the Gebira and more. It seems that since all we have these days is Western European Monarchies as models to look at this would seem foreign to you.

You really have lots to learn. You just need to ask the right questions.

 

[CopticChristian]

You didn’t answer my question, why do you call Mary a queen? Where do you get that in scripture? I know where you get it in catholic church? where is Mary a queen?
You focused on disobedience comment rather than the “some” of the kings.

You are purposely trying to change the topic off the main point of the question.

The disobedience of the kings was not the focus of my question.

Why do you call Mary a queen? Because historically, “Some” of the Jewish kings had their living mothers remain as queen (because they were serving as queen when their husband died?)

You may want to read 1King2 as this is one of the reference in particular look at how the Queen mother is treated. Every Jew knew the OT like the back of his hand as they had to memorize it. Every Jew waited for the Kingdom and knew of the OT. Protestants unfortunately call Christ King and no little of the Kingdom that the Jews waited for. There is a Kingdom isn’t there? I realize that Kingdoms are archaic however that is what God gave us and that is what Jesus provided. So if there is a Kingdom what does it look like considering that the Old reveals the New. The Queen petitions the King and the King honors the Queen mother. Subjects follow the King.

16And now I ask one petition of thee, deny me not. And she said unto him, Say on. 17And he said, Speak, I pray thee, unto Solomon the king, (for he will not say thee nay,) that he give me Abishag the Shunammite to wife. 18And Bathsheba said, Well; I will speak for thee unto the king.

19Bathsheba therefore went unto king Solomon, to speak unto him for Adonijah. And the king rose up to meet her, and bowed himself unto her, and sat down on his throne, and caused a seat to be set for the king’s mother; and she sat on his right hand.

 

[Marybeloved]

CopticChristian—

Orthodox=right teaching. In this specific case, I was saying that I didn’t see anything Nestorian about what the author said; he affirmed his belief that Jesus was God in Mary’s womb.

Regarding the part you quoted from the article: In saying that Mary was Jesus’ mother in regard to His humanity, we would agree on that, yes?----that Jesus was genuinely a Jewish man, and Mary contributed to Him her genes. Do we agree there?

This is what shows the wrong thinking in this so called confusion. Saying that Mary was his mother “as regards his humanity” is just wrong. She was/is his mother- period! The mother of YOUR Lord, in fact, as God The Holy Spirit testifies through St. Elizabeth. Not the Mother of “the Lord’s humanity” :nope:… Mother of My Lord.

In saying Mary was not Jesus’ mother in regard to His divinity,

Wrong, wrong. That’s exactly what we are saying is NOT true! She was the mother of the person joined to the body she conceived- That person is NOT human. He’s GOD. Jesus is exactly ONE person- A Divine person, not a human person. There is NO human person in Christ- No human person possessing the human nature of Christ- just One Divine person who possesses the human nature as his own. Like I said, Your mother is not the mother of a nature, the nature she gives you, but of a person, a person she in no way gives you- This person God joins and makes one with the nature that is partly from the parents (body) and God (soul), but still just one nature.

You are a person who possesses your human nature, your mother did not give you your person. She’s still your mother, not the mother of “your body” or “your nature”.

we would agree that Mary is not divine, and therefore she didn’t have divinity to contribute to Him in the womb—yes?

Agreed- But that’s not the point

 

[Marybeloved]

Is it proper to call David, the “Father of God”? Since Jesus is the “Son of David”.

I would tend to think the same reasoning would apply to Mother of Jesus, Jesus is God, therefore, Mary is the Mother of God.

I would also think the title “Father of God” for David is necessary to preserve Jesus is Deity

David is the ancestor of Christ, not his Father. Do you call the man and woman who conceived you father and mother, or do you also confer the same title to your ancestor of fourteen generations (1000 years) ago?

What is being given to Mary is a title based on human relationships- relationships that God forever became a part of when he freely chose to be human. If someone would not be “Mother” or “Father” to any other person, why should they be to Christ? If someone is “Mother” to any other person, why should they not be so to Christ? Your logic keeps trying to apply different relations to Christ than to all other people, just to avoid the plain fact that God chose for himself from all Eternity, a HUMAN MOTHER!!! An unimaginable honor, acknowledged by the angels. Why should anyone try to begrudge her what God has given her of his own free and sovereign will? The Lord gives to whom he wills, as he wills- It’s his power, his freedom, his gifts, his prerogative. What he gave to his creature Mary of Nazareth, was making her HIS mother. It’s not that complicated.

 

[Marybeloved]

Is she the mother of the Father and the Spirit too?? Of course not. She is the mother of Jesus, God the Son. That’s all.

You say “that’s all”, as if being Mother of God the Son is not being Mother of God. Do you think that God the Son is not fully and absolutely God? You think he’s only partly God? He’s God, not one third God. So, Mother of God the Son is Mother of God- period! Mother of a Divine Person is mother of God.

And if you have a problem with it, why aren’t you similarly protesting Jesus being called simply God? Is he God the Father or God the Holy Spirit? If that does not stop him being called simply God, then your logic is flawed- Mother of Jesus is mother of God.

 

[Marybeloved]

Paul seems to distinguish the seed of the flesh and according to the spirit.

So let me ask: Who died for you? God or man?

Nature and person: This seems to be what you’re having trouble distinguishing.
Nature is what you are, person is WHO you are. In Christ there’s only ONE who, two whats. THE same WHO possessing the Divine nature from eternity (God the Son) is the exact same who possessing what was conceived in Mary’s womb. The same person acting in the Divine nature from eternity is the same one acting in the human nature from 2,000 years ago and for-ever. The Who of the humanity was God, not some human person. So why don’t you refer to your own mother as the mother of your nature but not you, the person?

And why does the fact that Jesus is King make Mary a Queen. Just because “Some” of the Jewish Kings (many of the disobedient ones may I add) had their mother as a queen? David did not have his mother as a queen. Some had their grand mothers, and some had wives.

No where in scripture is Mary referred to as a queen

The Mother of a reigning King is a Queen- It’s not that complicated.

 

[jerry_joseph]

Mary Mother of God … Theothokos … Pray for us…

 

[emmaberry]

A lot of protestants don’t quite get the 'fully human and fully God" thing. While they claim to be Trinitarian Christians, they really don’t quite understand the Nicene Creed’s implications.

“Mary worship” is a frequent criticism protestants raise against Catholics. In solo scriptora denominations it’s even worse.

Lutherans and Anglicans sort of get it.

If Christ is born of Mary, then logically she is the ‘Mother of God’.

 

[emmaberry]

My point is the whole line of thought of saying

Jesus is God
Mary is Mother is Jesus,
therefore Mary is the mother of God

That whole thought is flawed. We shouldn’t use that as logic at all.

The fact is the Bible says Jesus is God. (Book of John, other books)
Bible says Mary is the mother of Jesus

And using fancy deduction logic gets you in trouble.

I do not need to confirm Mary is the mother of God to confirm Jesus is God.

The Word of God tells me this already. I just believe God’s Word.

The Bible says that Elisabeth called Mary, “Mother of My Lord”

If Saint Elisabeth said it, then we sinners can as well,

Mary IS the Mother of God and it in NO WAY disrespects Jesus to call her this!

You have been given logic, now you have been given support from the Scriptures. Why won’t you call the Mother of Our Lord the Mother of God. That is what she is, that is what she willingly took upon herself in the annunciation.

I sense your problem with Mary’s valid title is that you have not accepted her as your mother as Christ commanded on the cross when He told the disciple, “Behold your mother.”

Mary always leads us to her son, and like she did at Cana with the wine that as needed, she pleads for Jesus to have mercy on us sinners. Behold your mother!

 

[crazzeto]

The Bible says that Elisabeth called Mary, “Mother of My Lord”

If Saint Elisabeth said it, then we sinners can as well,

Mary IS the Mother of God and it in NO WAY disrespects Jesus to call her this!

This is an excellent point!

 

[cajunhillbilly]

I have not read all the posts, but I remember that even at Westminster Seminary, a Presbyterian seminary, when studying historic theology, I was taught that Mary could be referred to as Mother of God since Jesus her Son is true God and true Man, and was one Person with two natures. We studied this when studying the Nicene Creed. It just was not often mentioned outside of the study of historic theology though.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Romans 1 Paul seems to distinguish the seed of the flesh and according to the spirit.

The point isn’t to debate if Saints live on earth or now. My point is “intercession” is a very real fact in Bible.

Not only do those in heaven pray with us, they also pray for us. In Revelation, John sees that “the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints” (Rev. 5:8). Thus the saints in heaven offer to God the prayers of the saints on earth. However we do not call anyone a Saint on earth. We know they are here. We have a great idea who they are and in fact you may know one. But its still an immediate judgement at death by God. In other words, if you go directly Heaven your a Saint.

Angels do the same thing: “[An] angel came and stood at the altar [in heaven] with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God” (Rev. 8:3–4).

So the question really comes down to this. Do you believe in your faith Prayer Intercession is a reality, by people here on Earth and by the Saints in Heaven by the Lords will?

OK now, when you state this…“Paul seems to distinguish the seed of the flesh and according to the spirit.”

Paul is referring to the Spirit that dwells within all those Baptized in the Trinity. Or as Paul states “it is not I that lives. but Christ that lives within me”

As far as Queen of Heaven you made the Historical connection. Doesn’t have to be Biblical, its Tradition, before the Bible was Oral Tradition.

Here’s the KJV Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle, not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead; [Called by whom? the resurrected Jesus Christ]

Ok so Saul has a Vision of the Lord and he’s sent to be an Apostle. Why then is it difficult to believe the Blessed Mother appeared in Mexico in the 1500’s and converted 10-million people in 9-years day in and out? “Immaculate Conception” at Lourdes, Our Lady of the Rosary. “I Am from Heaven”. “The Immaculate Heart of Mary” at Fatima. Isn’t the proof in the pudding just as it is with Paul? Let alone whats Biblical with Mary.

So then you will believe the Catholic who wrote the Sciptures and the Vision of Paul. But you won’t believe the Catholics who bear witness to that truth in Mexico?

What is the point of intercession? Why do we even need this? This is something you’ll have to reflect on. I could tell you why, but its a reality you will have to come to see as truth yourself. Did not the Lord directly interceed in the life of Saul? Does not Paul directly interceed in the life of others? So theres the “ascend/descend” process again through the Angels Michael and Gabriel and constantly by prayer on earth by Christians.

Anyway when you say Paul seems to distinguish the seed from the flesh. Paul distinguishs the fact that their is not life without Christ, none, zero, zip. Because of Christ and the Cross and your Baptism, you are not automatically saved. It just means your not automatically dead.

Where in the Bible “anywhere” does its state “Just pray to Jesus Christ and your sins are forgiven”? It doesn’t exist. One has to allude to vague interpretations, and I assure you I’ve heard them all, the Our Father…teachs you how to pray, doesn’t tell you your sins are forgiven. The woman whom Christ tells “Your Sins are Forgiven, now go and Sin no more?” Well when did Christ appear to you and tell you this? If he appears and tells you this? Then your sins are forgiven. Now when did that happen? And you would still have to “Sin-no more” and “if” you did, how are those Sins forgiven Biblically?

The Apostles themselves by “Bible” Eat and Drink the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ. What happened in John, the discourse on to eat my body and drink my blood or you are dead. He states it twice and more implicit the second time. Everyone leaves, Christ asks the Apostles; “Will you leave Me also?” Whats their response? " And where shall we go and to whom Lord" So then its a forgone conclusion this is God in the Flesh and He is telling you the equation to save your Souls, The Last Supper?..Do this in memory of Me. He didn’t ask, he told them “DO THIS”

The resurrected Christ appears to his Disciples in John 20, and what happens here? And the Resurrected Christ states. As my father has sent Me, so I send YOU! Then he breathed on them and said: RECEIVE THE HOLY SPIRIT, IF YOU FORGIVE MENS SINS, THEY ARE FORGIVEN. IF YOU HOLD THEM BOUND THEY ARE HELD BOUND.

So how does one conclude out of that, you can have your own sins forgiven by yourself?

What are they Binding and Losing …YOUR SIN. How are they binding and losing your SIN? Through the Sacrements of the Church the BODY and BLOOD of Christ. The same holds true for the Doctrine on Moral and Faith through this equation of Bind and Lose through the Holy Spirit.

What does intercession do? It helps you remain on the path of Santifying Grace. Thus a State of Grace.

I contend The “Blessed Virgin Mother, Mother of the Lord” [as defined in BIBLE] interceeds for mankind through the Will of God and to be more accurate the Holy Spirit. If fact nothing indicates otherwise on the contrary.

St Peter himself in 2 Peter 3:14-17 tells you Pauls words will be distorted:shrug: The Gospel itself States this. Whos distorting the words of Paul the CC?

Peace

 

[GaryTaylor]

So let me ask: Who died for you? God or man?

Nature and person: This seems to be what you’re having trouble distinguishing.
Nature is what you are, person is WHO you are. In Christ there’s only ONE who, two whats. THE same WHO possessing the Divine nature from eternity (God the Son) is the exact same who possessing what was conceived in Mary’s womb. The same person acting in the Divine nature from eternity is the same one acting in the human nature from 2,000 years ago and for-ever. The Who of the humanity was God, not some human person. So why don’t you refer to your own mother as the mother of your nature but not you, the person? :shrug:The Mother of a reigning King is a Queen- It’s not that complicated.

You would think…eh?

 

[jlhargus]

David was Biologically in the blood line of David. He is called the “Son of David” So can we call David “Father of God” or “Great, great, great … grandfather of God”?

JL: It wouldn’t be incorrect to call David the grandfather of God. Wasn’t David’s great grandson God become flesh?

 

[jlhargus]

** And why does the fact that Jesus is King make Mary a Queen. **

If Mary’s son is the Son of David and King in David’s line. Then Mary is Gebirah=Queen Mother in the regenerated spiritual Kingdom of David, Israel. [Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase OF HIS GOVERNMENT and peace THERE SHALL BE NO END, UPON THE THRONE OF DAVID, and upon HIS KINGDOM, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even FOR EVER. The zeal of THE LORD of hosts WILL PERFORM THIS.]

[Lk 1:31 And, behold, THOU SHALT CONCEIVE in thy womb, AND BRING FORTH A SON, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be CALLED the SON OF THE HIGHEST: and THE LORD GOD SHALL GIVE UNTO HIM THE THRONE OF HIS FATHER DAVID: 33 HE WILL REIGN OVER THE HOUSE OF JACOB FOR EVER, his kingdom will have no end.] Jesus is King in the line of David, Mary is Queen Mother. Queen Mother was an office in the Davidic Kingdom, form Solomon, the son of David, till the last earthly king IN DAVID’S LINE.

1Kgs8:18 And the LORD said unto David my father, Whereas it was in thine heart to build an house unto my name, thou didst well that it was in thine heart. 19 Nevertheless THOU SHALT NOT BUILD THE HOUSE; BUT THY SON thy son THAT shall COME FORTH OUT OF THY LOINS, he SHALL BUILD THE HOUSE UNTO MY NAME. [2Sam 7:13 HE SHALL BUILD A HOUSE for my name and I WILL ESTABLISH the throne of HIS KINGDOM FOR EVER.] Christ the Son of David is building an everlasting universal spiritual kingdom. Christ builds with living stones. Regenerating the old earthly Davidic kingdom of God into the new spiritual heavenly kingdom of God.

[Mt19:27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? 28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That YE WHICH have FOLLOWED ME, IN THE REGENERATION when THE SON OF MAN SHALL SIT IN THE THRONE of his glory, YE ALSO SHALL SIT UPON twelve THRONES, JUDGING the twelve tribes of Israel.

Lk22:28 YE are they which HAVE CONTINUED WITH ME IN MY TEMPTATIONS. 29 And I APPOINT UNTO YOU A KINGDOM, AS my Father hath APPOINTED UNTO ME; 30 That YE MAY EAT AND DRINK AT MY TABLE in my kingdom, and SIT ON THRONES JUDGING the twelve tribes of Israel. 31 And the Lord said, Simon, SIMON, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: 32 But I HAVE PRAYED FOR THEE, that THY FAITH FAIL NOT: and when thou art converted, STRENGTHEN THY BRETHREN.] The kingdom, the Church, where we eat and drink at the LORD’s TABLE, we call it MASS today. Peter is First Minister as he is given the keys to that kingdom. Christ the king, holds the keys by right, and delegates his authority, with those keys, to his First Minister, [Isa 22:19-22 & Mt 16:13-19]. That Kingdom is for all people in all places and all times. Christ is Universal Catholic King and his mother is Universal Catholic Gebirah=Queen in the regenerated spiritual Davidic Kingdom.

[1Kgs2:19 Bathsheba therefore went unto king Solomon, to speak unto him for Adonijah. And THE KING ROSE up TO MEET HER, AND BOWED HIMSELF UNTO HER, and sat down on his throne, AND CAUSED A SEAT TO BE SET FOR THE KING’S MOTHER; and SHE SAT ON HIS RIGHT HAND.] Mk10:40 But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is not mine to give; but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared.

[REV 11:19 And THE TEMPLE OF GOD WAS OPENED IN HEAVEN and THERE WAS SEEN in his temple THE ARK OF HIS TESTAMENT and there were lightnings and voices and thunderings and an earthquake and great hail RV 12:1 And THERE APPEARED A GREAT WONDER in heaven A WOMAN CLOTHED WITH THE SUN and the MOON UNDER HER FEET and UPON HER HEAD A CROWN OF TWELVE STARS 2 And she being with child cried travailing in birth and pained to be delivered] The woman is a person=Mary and a collective, symbolic of the Church, Old and New Covenant people of God. Twelve stars, universal queen, queen of heaven and earth. [Eph3:14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,]

[RV 12:5 And SHE BROUGHT FORTH A MAN CHILD who was TO RULE ALL NATIONS with a rod of iron and her child was caught up unto God and to his throne] To rule ALL NATIONS, universal king, the child is a person=Christ and collective, symbolic of the Davidic Kingdom.
Jer 52:1 ZEDIKIAH was twenty-one years old when he became KING, and he reigned eleven years in Jerusalem. HIS MOTHER’S NAME was HAMUTAL, daughter of Jeremiah of Libnah.

2 Kgs 21:1 MANASSEH was twelve years old when he became KING, and he reigned in Jerusalem fifty-five years. HIS MOTHER’S NAME was HEPHZIBAH.

2 Kgs 8:26 Two and twenty years old was AHAZIAH when he began to reign; and HE REIGNED one year in Jerusalem. And HIS MOTHER’S NAME WAS ATHALIAH, the daughter of Omri king of Israel.

Jer 13:18 Say to THE KING and to THE QUEEN MOTHER, Come down from YOUR THRONES, for your glorious CROWNS will fall from your heads. 19 The cities in the Negev will be shut up, and there will be no one to open them. All Judah will be carried into exile, carried completely away.

1Kgs8:20 And THE LORD HATH PERFORMED HIS WORD that he spake, and I AM RISEN UP in the room of David my father, AND SIT ON THE THRONE OF ISRAEL, AS THE LORD PROMISED, AND have BUILT AN HOUSE FOR the name of THE LORD GOD OF ISRAEL. 21 And I HAVE SET THERE A PLACE FOR THE ARK, wherein is the covenant of the LORD, which he made with our fathers, when he brought them out of the land of Egypt.

Jer 44:9 9 Have you forgotten the wickedness committed by your fathers and by THE KINGS AND QUEENS OF JUDAH and the wickedness committed by you and your wives in the land of Judah and the streets of Jerusalem?

 

[Hesychios]

…The Mother of a reigning King is a Queen- It’s not that complicated.

Well … Queen Mother perhaps, or Dowager.

 

[jlhargus]

** And why does the fact that Jesus is King make Mary a Queen. Just because “Some” of the Jewish Kings (many of the disobedient ones may I add) had their mother as a queen? David did not have his mother as a queen. Some had their grand mothers, and some had wives.**

JL: Yes some were disobedient just like David their father when he committed adultery and had the husband killed. I am not aware of a SON OF DAVID who had his wife as queen. I am open to your evidence otherwise. Some kings of Israel did have their wife as queen. But they were not SONS OF DAVID.

David didn’t elevate his mother, who was dead. It was only THE SONS OF DAVID who did so. Establishing a TYPE of Christ the SON OF DAVID who will build a house for God. It was Solomon, the SON OF DAVID, who instituted the office of queen mother. Solomon the SON OF DAVID who builds a HOUSE FOR THE LORD (Temple). From King Solomon, the SON OF DAVID. as long as a SON OF DAVID sat on the throne of David there was an office of queen mother. Christ, the SON OF DAVID, is king in David’s line who is building a habitation for God (Temple of living stones). His kingdom will have no end.

As God’s anointed, king Soloman, had complete authority to institute any office he saw fit for the kingdom. No prophet ever condemned that office, in fact Jeremiah called the king’s and queen mother’s crowns glorious.

Jer 13:18 Say to THE KING and to THE QUEEN MOTHER, Come down from YOUR THRONES, for your glorious CROWNS will fall from your heads. 19 The cities in the Negev will be shut up, and there will be no one to open them. All Judah will be carried into exile, carried completely away.

** No where in scripture is Mary referred to as a queen**

JL: [RV 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven **a woman clothed with the sun and the moon under her feet and upon her head a CROWN of twelve stars 2 And she being with child cried travailing in birth and pained to be delivered] The woman is a person=Mary and a collective, symbolic of the Church Old and New Covenant people of God.

[RV 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven and behold a great **red dragon

having seven heads and ten horns,and seven crowns upon his heads] The great dragon is a person=Satan and a collective, symbolic of empires, kingdoms, governments and organizations that oppress the people of God through the ages

[RV 12:5 And **she brought forth a man child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron and her child was caught up unto God and to his throne] The child is a person=Christ and collective, symbolic of the Davidic Kingdom.]

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

rbarcia;8783346]** No where in scripture is Mary referred to as a queen**

Why did Mary pondered at the greeting from heaven given by the angel Gabriel? When the angel from heaven “Hailed” Mary as “full of grace”. To present a lowly maiden with such a supreme greeting to “Hail Mary”, when only Royalty are given such a greeting.

What is interesting from this heavenly greeting from Hailing Mary as royalty, the angel Gabriel follows his royal greeting with a new title given to Mary from heaven “Full of grace”. The original greeting text does not imply what she possesses, but the original language reveals after the Hailing always follows the title of one being “hailed”, thus Mary’s new title from the angel is “Full of Grace”, followed by “**the Lord **is with you”. Notice the same capital letters spelled from the angel in “Lord” is the same language and spellling that Elizabeth calls Mary from “the mother of my Lord”.

Luke 1:52 records Mary as being lifted up over the " rulers and Thrones". Luke writes describing Mary vs.52 He has thrown down the rulers from their Thrones, but lifted up the Lowly.

Luke himself also writes from vs 48…“behold, from now on will all ages call me blessed”. Now for Luke to record Mary is to be acknowleded from “ALL AGES” as calliing her blessed places Mary in the eternal reality. All ages are to include past old testament patriacrchs, present and future ages that include the age to come, when Jesus returns.

Another witness besides the Angel Gabriel Hailing Mary, Elizabeth calling her “the mother of my Lord” and Lukes “All ages” will call her blessed. We have John the revelator who finds Mary in heaven “crowned” with twelve stars, which is to include “all ages” see Revelations 12:1

The Prophets also speak about Mary’s Motherhood of her divine Son Jesus.

Isaiah 49: 1 Hear me, O coastlands, listen, O distant peoples. The LORD called me from birth, from my mother’s womb he gave me my name

Luke 1:30 Then the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31 Behold, **you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name him Jesus. **

Isaiah 7: 14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you this sign: **the virgin shall **be with child, and bear a son, and **shall name him Immanuel (which means God is with us). **

Isaiah 66: 7 Before she comes to labor, she gives birth; Before the pains come upon her, she safely delivers a male child. 8 Who ever heard of such a thing, or saw the like? Rejoice with Jerusalem and be glad because of her, all you who love her; Exult, exult with her,

Here is the prophetic Psalm which prophetically reveals the Queen that is to come when all ages will call her blessed, and when God himself will remove rulers and thrones and lift up Mary to be Jesus Mother reigning with Jesus as His queen who stands at His right side

Psalms 45: 10 Daughters of kings are your lovely wives; a princess arrayed in Ophir’s gold comes to stand at your right hand. 14 All glorious is the king’s daughter as she enters, her raiment threaded with gold; 15 In embroidered apparel she is led to the king. .
18 I will make your name renowned through all generations; thus nations shall praise you forever