I don't want a divorce

[BLB_Oregon]

If what you have posted in your past has been true of the context of your marriage, I’d say take the divorce and run away. File for an annulment. I don’t say that lightly, for most I’d say work on the marriage.

I have to say I’m of the same opinion. I do not believe in divorce, but I also don’t believe in staying in a marriage that doesn’t deserve the name and never has. I also do not believe in confusing civil/temporal realities and spiritual/eternal ones.

Obviously, you have tried to get him to counselling. You have tried everything. This marriage is not in ruins because you failed to make your best effort. He doesn’t want it, and by his own account, he never did. He doesn’t respect you and he has no regard for the reality of marriage. If you believed he wanted a sacramental marriage, it would appear that you were duped. Unless he
a) entered into the marriage fully understanding the commitment he was making and
b) fully willing and as able as mature humans generally are to fulfill it
you do not have a valid marriage.

Get a very good attorney for your civil divorce, though. That man of yours is not someone who would think twice about taking advantage of you. Do not fool yourself into thinking that you would suffer for a good or sanctifying reason if you let him do it.

Let us say, for argument’s sake, that you are divorced in the state of Florida are then denied an annulment by the Church. Let us say that your husband does eventually come back and you are re-married in the civil sense. It is no sin that you preserved as much as you could of the joint assets of your marriage during his period of sinful insanity. Let us say that he does not come back. It is no sin that you do not let him shirk those responsibilities the state will hold him to, such as providing you with a share of the marital assets to use according to your prudence instead of his lack of it.

As long as you neither re-marry nor are unfaithful to him, no one on Heaven and no one with two neurons on earth is going to hold you responsible for your husband’s actions. The Church does not forbid divorce for this reason, only divorce and re-marriage.

 

[Katie1723]

Their is a difference between wanting to do something and then keeping your obligation.

Again, who would WANT to be married to a person that treats you bad? No one would WANT this. However, if you enter into marriage this is not good enough reason to end it. I doubt this woman vowed before God and man to remain married to this man only unless he treated her with respect, tenderness and devotion.

Katie, for you to say “I hope you think more of yourself” is really a slap. It is not that a woman thinks of herself as not worth it but that she views her vows and promise as worth it. This is the difference.

---

No one enters a marriage “wanting” a divorce. But there are times when it is something that merits consideration. Vows or no vows, if I gave something my all and my husband treated me the way the OP says her husband did/does, I would be down on my knees praying to the Lord above to point me in the right direction. And I know the Lord would know I gave it my all. And yes, a woman needs to know that she should think more of herself than to settle for whatever crumbs of affection her beloved throws her way. All that teaches her children is that that kind of relationship is normal. If there are difficulties in a marriage and BOTH parties are willing to work on them, then by all means they should. But to live a lifetime of misery because “I don’t want a divorce…” then you better be prepared for a whole lot of suffering.
Kathy

 

[st_ignatius110]

There is no abuse, there is nothing that can’t be fixed.

This is a quote from her post. If there is indeed abuse going on in the marriage and Seminole Girl’s safety is at risk…then of course I would not say to stay. However, this is not what she said in this particular post. I have no idea about her other posts on this board.

 

[Robaynne]

I am sorry that you are in this situation.

It is not a easy thing to go through a divorce. I am going through the same thing myself. Read my posts and you will see for yourself. You are not alone there are lots of single women out there who have survived. And there is nothing wrong with been alone. There was a time when loneliness consumed me and then I got over it. I am not alone there is God and he is always there and he never disappoints you or lets you down. Have faith in him.

Am not sure if I read your posts before. But you cannot force somebody to stay in a marriage if they do not want to. Lots of people go through what you are going through now. I also felt that marriage was for life. So with a result even though there was a part of me deep down inside that said get out I did not. I stayed even with the physical and emotional abuse I stayed. Because I felt that I had made these marriage vows and they were for life. But I could not stop him from falling in love with somebody else or from them having a baby together. I refused to file for the divorce and he did. But I will never ever prevent him from getting it because that is what he wants.

But good luck to you. Keep your head up and keep praying. I am telling you this one day you are going to look back on this and say look where I am now compared to where I was before. Let him go he does not deserve you, you deserve better.

 

[Karianne]

Roughly a year and a half ago, we were married in my home state of Arkansas. We had a covenant marriage because my old Church stressed getting one. Having been a recent graduate of FSU, and met my husband in Tallahassee, we dedcided to stay there.

18 or so months later, he has filed for divorce. I have begged, pleaded, and cried for him not to, but he refused. He filed a court order for me to leave, but by then I didn’t wait around to be that humiliated. So I packed up what things I had, and moved back to Arkansas, got a new drivers license, and am staying with an old freind. My parents won’t let me stay with them; all I get is “Why should we take you in when you have a husband?”. I still work in Tallahassee, and am waiting for a job to come through in Arkasnas. Ironically, my boss has been the most supportive, letting me work Mon-Wed and then going back to Arkansas.

Since I am now a resident of Arkansas, he should not be able to throw me out so easily because of the covenant marriage. But, as my life never works out anymore, the judge at our first hearing looked at me and said “This is Florida, not Arkansas. Where do you think you are?”.

I don’t want a divorce. There is no abuse, there is nothing that can’t be fixed. I don’t want to end up like 50% of other couples, and fail at this. I don’t succeed at most anything I do, but I can’t fail at my marriage. Every petition filed by my Arkansas attorney has been denied. He told me that unless we go to the US courts, then Florida’s laws take precedance, and I have no way to stop it.

Anyone have any suggestions? For 18 months I have tried and tried. I’m not ready to give up, so why should he be able to just throw me out, even when the Law says he can’t? I start crying every time I think about it, and it’s so hard to type and sob…

If there are no kids yet maybe you would be better off to let this man go, it doesn’t sound like he meant his vows when he was taking them, furthermore, you would be stuck forever with him if you had kids.
It seems that for whatever reason you now have to stand alone and make your own way in life, since even your parents have failed to support you.
Since you have a job it sounds like you actually are doing pretty well, now all you need to do is to get over your obsession with this man.
Your post made me sad, however, the very fact that you found a job tells me that you are a survivor.
Maybe its time to cut your losses and make a good life for yourself in Tallahassee.

 

[SeminoleGirl22]

Maybe its time to cut your losses and make a good life for yourself in Tallahassee.

Thank you for all your posts and support. I have been talking to my preist over the months, and he has always counseled me to exhibit great patience, understanding and love.

He also told me that I seem to let myself get walked on, and surrender to other people’s terms. For a while, I finally gave in to my husband, and dropped the harping about watching porn, hacking software, having parties while I was away, and things actually were pretty good between us. I just internalized my feelings and anger, and yapped to Father or anyone who would listen. Finally, it was just too much to let go. A wife should not just sit around while her husband puts himself on a path straight to Hell. I wanted children so badly, but it was not the time or place to have them with a husband that did not in the least bit follow any Christinan values. That is when I finally realized that an enviornment not sutiable to raise children wasn’t enough for me.

As far as the divorce, Father has told me that I need to do what is best for me. Do what I think is right. If I am not ready to give up, then I must commit myself to trying and rely on God for strength. However, the judge is simply ignoring my intentions. The judge has told me twice in the two hearings, “It does not matter if you want a divorce or not. I’m not here to cater to your beliefs, I am here to uphold Florida’s Laws”. It always seems like what I think, or what I want is simply ignored, just ignored. I have finally had it. I am going to do what I think is right.

My lawyer is a well-respected man in family law, and the Episcopal community for fighting for true Christian values. He has taken on my case for almost nothing, only court fees and minor supplies. However, he tells me that this might be a losing battle.

He thinks the only possible way to prevent Florida from nullifying an Arkansas covenant marriage, is to attack Florida recognition of covenant marriage in US courts, whatever that means?.? But he said that would undermine Same-sex marriage laws as a bad side effect. I have contacted the Americans for divorce reform, and Focus on the Family, to see if they have any advice. Anyone here that can lend advice, I’m all ears.

I will give up when I am ready. God has given me enormous strength to continue trying, and suffering for our Faith. Now I just need a hand with a broken legal system.

 

[st_ignatius110]

SeminoleGirl,

I will pray for you in the decisions you make. Don’t let yourself be run over by your husband but do fight for Truth.

 

[BLB_Oregon]

As far as the divorce, Father has told me that I need to do what is best for me. Do what I think is right. If I am not ready to give up, then I must commit myself to trying and rely on God for strength. However, the judge is simply ignoring my intentions. The judge has told me twice in the two hearings, “It does not matter if you want a divorce or not. I’m not here to cater to your beliefs, I am here to uphold Florida’s Laws”. It always seems like what I think, or what I want is simply ignored, just ignored. I have finally had it. I am going to do what I think is right.

You get it. It is about being able to go to pray and say, “I did my best to be faithful.”

Those of us who say, “Let him go” really mean to say, “Give yourself permission to let him go. You have done your best and he has not been any husband to you from the beginning.” I am assuming that this is what your pastor has told you, too.

We are concerned that you not chain yourself to a dead horse and that you not let this fellow take advantage of you. Even a cursory reading of your prior posts raises that issue, particularly his controlling behavior with regards to money and his extreme rudeness, disregard for your feelings, and blunt disregard for the sanctity of marriage.

If fighting the dissolution of a covenant marriage by the simple act of crossing state lines is what *you *want to do and you have an attorney familiar with your case who is willing to help you on principle, however, that is a horse of a different color. That is only one reason you might keep fighting even though an annulment of your marriage might seem highly likely.

As long as you are not being somehow manipulated to abandon your free will, choosing divorce as recourse against an unlivable situation and as a likely prelude to annulment is a matter of discernment. None of us can tell you what to do from this distance. We can only suggest what your options may be.

You get it. It is your decision.

 

[nana3]

I will keep you in prayer over fighting the battle in Florida’s court system. I for one am not impressed with Florida’s laws and the system when it comes to divorce and child custody. I am happy you don’t have kids yet for that would be another nightmare with your husband. The court system here in Florida protect both parents and really see both as fit, even when there is evidence of abuse, or at least that is the situation with my sister and the kids are not protected. My sister’s attorney told us that Florida is a very stuff state to fight in court.

I wish you blessings and patience for the system here and will certainly keep you in prayer as you make your decisions.

The lawyer you have is he in Tallahassee? I think it is wonderful to find a lawyer who is not money hungrey. My sister needs one like yours, but we live in Orlando.

 

[Karianne]

Thank you for all your posts and support. I have been talking to my preist over the months, and he has always counseled me to exhibit great patience, understanding and love.

He also told me that I seem to let myself get walked on, and surrender to other people’s terms. For a while, I finally gave in to my husband, and dropped the harping about watching porn, hacking software, having parties while I was away, and things actually were pretty good between us. I just internalized my feelings and anger, and yapped to Father or anyone who would listen. Finally, it was just too much to let go. A wife should not just sit around while her husband puts himself on a path straight to Hell. I wanted children so badly, but it was not the time or place to have them with a husband that did not in the least bit follow any Christinan values. That is when I finally realized that an enviornment not sutiable to raise children wasn’t enough for me.

As far as the divorce, Father has told me that I need to do what is best for me. Do what I think is right. If I am not ready to give up, then I must commit myself to trying and rely on God for strength. However, the judge is simply ignoring my intentions. The judge has told me twice in the two hearings, “It does not matter if you want a divorce or not. I’m not here to cater to your beliefs, I am here to uphold Florida’s Laws”. It always seems like what I think, or what I want is simply ignored, just ignored. I have finally had it. I am going to do what I think is right.

My lawyer is a well-respected man in family law, and the Episcopal community for fighting for true Christian values. He has taken on my case for almost nothing, only court fees and minor supplies. However, he tells me that this might be a losing battle.

He thinks the only possible way to prevent Florida from nullifying an Arkansas covenant marriage, is to attack Florida recognition of covenant marriage in US courts, whatever that means?.? But he said that would undermine Same-sex marriage laws as a bad side effect. I have contacted the Americans for divorce reform, and Focus on the Family, to see if they have any advice. Anyone here that can lend advice, I’m all ears.

I will give up when I am ready. God has given me enormous strength to continue trying, and suffering for our Faith. Now I just need a hand with a broken legal system.

I am sure that you will make the right decision. I’m glad that you are not enriching the coffers of a family law lawyer.
Somewhere, there is a good man for you, a man who will be a good father to your future children.
I don’t think the guy you’re with is that man, but I don’t know.

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

Somewhere, there is a good man for you, a man who will be a good father to your future children.
I

Not if her current marriage is valid in the eyes of the Church.

She needs to focus on one thing at a time…right now she doesn’t need to be thinking of a future daddy for her future kids.

Malia

 

[mariam1976]

Not if her current marriage is valid in the eyes of the Church.

She needs to focus on one thing at a time…right now she doesn’t need to be thinking of a future daddy for her future kids.

Malia

the poster said that she doesnt know if her husband is the right man for her or not… he may be or he may not be…
ultimately when she is focussing on her marriage, she is looking at the man as the future daddy of her kids… that is the reason for marriage in the eyes of God. He instituted marriage for procreation.

 

[Karianne]

Not if her current marriage is valid in the eyes of the Church.

She needs to focus on one thing at a time…right now she doesn’t need to be thinking of a future daddy for her future kids.

Malia

A priest has told her to do what is best for her. That’s an implied permission to get rid of this guy with the sanction of the Church.

 

[Karin]

A priest has told her to do what is best for her. That’s an implied permission to get rid of this guy with the sanction of the Church.

one priest does not make a Tribunal…he could tell her to do many things, does not mean that a Church Tribunal will grant her an annulment (Decree of Nullity) after her divorce.

 

[Ailina]

Hi there,

It doesn’t sound like your dh made a real sacramental committment to marriage, in which case, maybe it never was a marriage in the first place, and has a good chance of being nullified. I am going through a divorce, and see it as a good thing because my marriage is NOT a good example of what a good Catholic marriage should be. My ex is involved is some very sick sexual activites that I do not want my kids thinking is okay, because they is not okay.

If I stayed, I would be conveying a message to our children that it is okay to treat a wife like dirt, and that it’s okay to continue doing the things he is doing. There is nothing sacramental in a marriage if a man is not cherishing and loving his wife the way Christ commanded. It doesn’t sound like your husband is treating you well. It won’t get any better, and in fact will get worse, if you do end up having children.

There is such a thing as a good loneliness vs a bad loneliness. I experienced a bad loneliness in a marriage of betrayal and infidelity. I am on my own now, and consider the loneliness I experience now as a positive thing. Either way, I was alone. But this aloneness is allowing me to move forward. The other kind did not.

Take care. It is probably a blessing in disguise that your husband is pursuing divorce. It means he never understood the true committment of marriage from the start.

 

[BLB_Oregon]

A priest has told her to do what is best for her. That’s an implied permission to get rid of this guy with the sanction of the Church.

Her pastor has only told her that she would not sin by allowing a civil divorce to proceed. He could not guarantee her what a tribunal would say about the validity of her marriage. The Church allows civil divorce within valid marriages for grave reasons, though, and the priest can give her counsel on that matter.

Besides, she has not asked the Church or us if she could get rid of her husband. She does not want to get rid of him. She’s asked what to do now that he’s intent on getting rid of her. That is a different story. I think telling her that she does have options which are all morally valid and that she is capable of discerning which to choose on a day-by-day basis was a wise answer.

 

[Karianne]

Besides, she has not asked the Church or us if she could get rid of her husband. She does not want to get rid of him. She’s asked what to do now that he’s intent on getting rid of her. That is a different story. I think telling her that she does have options which are all morally valid and that she is capable of discerning which to choose on a day-by-day basis was a wise answer.

I find it interesting that you think that.

 

[Karin]

I find it interesting that you think that.

here are her words for you to read…
**I don’t want a divorce (see post #1)

**There is no abuse, there is nothing that can’t be fixed. I don’t want to end up like 50% of other couples, and fail at this. (also from post #1)

---

**Anyone have any suggestions? For 18 months I have tried and tried. I’m not ready to give up, (another one from her post#1)

you must of missed these parts of her post

 

[Ailina]

here are her words for you to read…
***I don’t want a divorce (***see post #1)

***There is no abuse, there is nothing that can’t be fixed. I don’t want to end up like 50% of other couples, and fail at this. ***(also from post #1)

---

***Anyone have any suggestions? For 18 months I have tried and tried. I’m not ready to give up, ***(another one from her post#1)

you must of missed these parts of her post

Oops! I thought I had read that there were previous posts in the past that alluded to her husband’s behavior.

In any case, it is not she who is failing the marriage. It is her husband who is. She should not be blaming herself since she has tried everything to keep the marriage going. It also sounds like he doesn’t understand the committment involved in a marriage, otherwise he would not be pursuing a divorce. Those are grounds for nullifying marriage, according to what I have read.

 

[Sandi]

I agree with what someone else said: WHY do you want to remain married to someone who doesn’t want you any more? I don’t mean to be harsh but you can’t make him love you again and if you somehow manipulated him into patching things up, you’d only be postponing the inevitable. Deep down you’d know he doesn’t really want to be with you and that knowledge would, for me, erode my self-respect.

Swallow your pride and GET A GOOD ATTORNEY; you need to protect your rights. And unless I’m missing something, just be glad there are no children involved. Good luck to you and I mean that sincerely.