I dunno what the title should be.

[Mommyof02green]

I’m glad that you, bella saw some humor in it too.
God Bless

 

[Mr.Ex_Nihilo]

I see my post did make it though my browser locked up I will delete my cloned topic later.

However the think about that is I believe you are talking about Onan or whatever his name is, what he did is far different then masturbation.

he had sex with his brothers wife while he was suppose to be making a child for his brothers wife to continue his blood, but he refused to ejackulate in her, so basically he was having sex with his brothers wife and birth controling it.

So thats commiting adultery not masturbation, because he was getting sex off of someone elses life but refusing to get her preganate like he was suppose to.

So thats alot different then masturbation not only is it adultery but its not self pleasure, which masturbation is, but I can see the whole thing about the self pleasure you said at the begging.

Some have also argued that Onan may have been participating in a kind of pagan fertility ritual, and thus perhaps engaging in idolatry too.

Nonetheless, the point still stands it seems.

If Onan was engaging in a type of birth control when doing so (something that I myself agree is very possible), then it seems as though masturbation may also lead to a kind of birth-control too.

In other words, instead of following one’s innate desires to procreate with one’s spouse, they are effectively controlling the potential birth of their children by misdirecting their acts and selfishly gratifying their own desires simply because it feels good.

By divorcing the sexual relationship from procreation, they are effectively still nonetheless engaging in a form of birth-control.

And even if they have totally forgotten that this pleasure was designed by God to bring about children through these sexual actions, this doesn’t change the fact that they are still nonetheless engaging in a form of birth-control when they act the way they do.

 

[santaro75]

I spoke to my priest and he told me that masturbation use to be regarded as a sin, but no longer…

probably got sick of hearing it in the confessional.

a priest once told me the same thing. he said that if it helps relieve you so you can think about other things then go ahead and do it.

question is…if your priest tells you its ok and you do it, trusting in your priest as your spiritual father provided by the church, at judgement day are you held accountable or is the priest.

I guess the full knowledge and consent thing comes into play here

 

[AlegreFe]

I spoke to my priest and he told me that masturbation use to be regarded as a sin, but no longer…

Sorry bella, but as told before in another thread in another forum that was locked, YOU ARE WRONG and so is your priest.

But if a young boy masturbates and does not know that masturbation is a grave matter he is not committing a sin. BUT that does not mean that he is to be left in the dark. He must be told that the act of masturbation is of grave matter. Once he knows this and does not stop then he is committing a mortal sin. He must confess this and ask for graces to help him stop. And there is nothing wrong with feeling guilty about something. If one did not feel guilty then how would they stop committing mortal sin?

I guess you would have to understand the purity of chastity to understand that masturbation is a MORTAL SIN.

 

[AlegreFe]

Here is a quote from my 12 year old’s book called “If You Really Loved Me.” The book is about living a pure life. This particular question is about masturbation. These are posted in the book in Q & A form.

Q. "What is wrong with masturbation? I think of it as
getting rid of your temptations without leading anyone
into sin."

A. Masturbation does not “get rid of” temptations any
more than a prostitute does. Both may temporarily
relieve sexual desires, but our goal as Christians is not
simply to get rid of temptations, but to Glorify God with
our bodies. The idea that masturbation can be used to
decrease sexual desires is like saying that lighter fluid
can be used to extinguish a fire. If anything,
masturbation insights lustful thoughts and teaches a
person that he or she deserves and needs sexual
gratification whenever the desire arises. To understand
why masturbation is wrong, we need to step back from
the world’s constant clamoring for sexual “needs” and go
back to God’s plan for sex. Sexuality is meant to be a
gift between a husband and wife for the purpose of
babies and bonding. When it is taken out of that context
the gift is degraded - and in the case of masturbation,
altogether ceases being a gift. The purpose of sexuality
is abandoned, because the center of the sexual act
becomes “Me” instead of “We” and the person is trained
to look to himself for sexual fulfillment. The gift of ones
sexuality is misused for the sake of lifeless pleasure.
Only selfless giving will fulfill you.
_____When people misuse their sexuality in this way, they
begin to use pleasure to change their mood, release
tension, or forget their loneliness. Masturbation
becomes an escape. It may pacify them, but it will never
satisfy them, because they will always want more. They
used the fantasies of their mind and the pleasures of
their body to flee from reality and the call to love. Their
goal in sexual activity has been reduced to merely
receiving pleasure instead of showing love. If men and
women have trained themselves to use their sexuality in
this way, why would this suddenly change once they are
married? The husband or wife will simply be a substitute
for the fantasies, to be used in place of self. They may
even imagine the fantasies while with their spouse. The
problem is that the lust will be transferred to the other,
not healed within. Worse yet, merely getting married will
not cure their problem with masturbation. Because
masturbation has trained disordered impulses in them,
the true pleasures of marriage - though far superior - will
not appease their warped attachments. Where will they
turn to find those pleasures within marriage? Often, they
will continue to struggle with masturbation, to the sorrow
and distress of their spouse, and to the detriment of their
marriage. A person who does not preserve his own purity
when alone will have a difficult time remaining pure with
another. If he lacks self-control when alone, he will be
unable to properly give himself to his spouse when the
time comes. You cannot give what you do not control.
No self-control equals no gift of self. To the extent that
there is no gift of self, there is no love. If you want to be
able to genuinely love your spouse, you must build self-
mastery.

Now I got this book for my 12 year old child. If a child can understand this, then why can’t an adult with children (or none) understand this.

 

[Nekic]

This is a very good and extensive article on why mastubration is wrong, and what to do about it.
newjerusalem.com/bepure.htm

It is long, but well worth the read.

 

[santaro75]

it is true that wakn one off provides temporary pleasure but afterwards it makes you feel drained and depressed and magnifies the loneliness. Yet men have an overpowering urge to do it at times.

My guess is that the strongest objectors to it are women because they have no idea. so I personally don’t even listen to a womans advice on this subject. no offense but you really don’t have any idea. Just like i don’t understand handbags or shoes or the need to feel beautiful all the time. enough on that,

 

[bella5110]

it is true that wakn one off provides temporary pleasure but afterwards it makes you feel drained and depressed and magnifies the loneliness. Yet men have an overpowering urge to do it at times.

My guess is that the strongest objectors to it are women because they have no idea. so I personally don’t even listen to a womans advice on this subject. no offense but you really don’t have any idea. Just like i don’t understand handbags or shoes or the need to feel beautiful all the time. enough on that,

Wakn off? Wow, that’s vulgar. As a female who understands what you said, females also have the urge, the women who understand are very sexual women. The others I would assume just have no desire, they aren’t sexy , or they don’t like their bodies, or they think they are going to hell for it. But don’t say women don’t understand, we have tendencies just like you. And true, it’s better than sleeping with every Tom, Dick and Harry…

 

[Loginus]

it is true that wakn one off provides temporary pleasure but afterwards it makes you feel drained and depressed and magnifies the loneliness. Yet men have an overpowering urge to do it at times.

My guess is that the strongest objectors to it are women because they have no idea. so I personally don’t even listen to a womans advice on this subject. no offense but you really don’t have any idea. Just like i don’t understand handbags or shoes or the need to feel beautiful all the time. enough on that,

Haha it could be just ignorance on the womans part. I remember my gf was getting mad at me for doing it, but one time I caught her doing it. When I aksed what she was doing she told me it was how she relaxed since she was younger.

Whats funny is that she didnt know it was masterbation. Like no idea lol She bugs me no more

As per your problem. I see say dont feel depressed over your body. Learn it, love it and its natural. If you still feel bumed, remember, we cant all be Jesus

 

[AlegreFe]

As per your problem. I see say dont feel depressed over your body. Learn it, love it and its natural. If you still feel bumed, remember, we cant all be Jesus

As a non-Catholic you have no position in speaking of this matter in the way that the Catholic Church views this as a mortal sin. So please don’t try to persuade people to sin especially since this is a mortal sin. Masturbation is NOT natural in the least. God made nature and God does NOT make anything that is not good. God made our sexuality so that a married couple can give themselves fully to one another and not to use each other for pleasure and that includes masturbation because it is a selfish act… read some of the posts here as to why masturbation is a sin.

I’m sorry but I don’t condone anyone to persuade anyone to sin. “Admonish the sinner” as God said to do.

 

[santaro75]

As a non-Catholic you have no position in speaking of this matter in the way that the Catholic Church views this as a mortal sin. So please don’t try to persuade people to sin especially since this is a mortal sin. Masturbation is NOT natural in the least. God made nature and God does NOT make anything that is not good. God made our sexuality so that a married couple can give themselves fully to one another and not to use each other for pleasure and that includes masturbation because it is a selfish act… read some of the posts here as to why masturbation is a sin.

I’m sorry but I don’t condone anyone to persuade anyone to sin. “Admonish the sinner” as God said to do.

yup, you have no understanding or tolerance for men in this matter. it is because you are a woman, and don’t have a clue about what it is like to be a young man.

 

[LilyM]

It’s precisely because I HAVE been a young woman with raging libido and indulged as frequently as most men do that I dare to say I DO understand. And I’m not that unusual in that.

I won’t dare to say I’ve kicked the habit for good, only time will tell, but it’s certainly now under control to a level that I would’ve thought impossible even a few years ago. So don’t tell me that I don’t understand the difficulties - I live with them and fight them on a daily basis!!!

 

[HailMary]

I have never read this before. can anyone here tell me if the bible itself actually reffers to masturbation as a sin or even at all?

Hi.

Your first problem is that you are looking for all the answers in the bible. The bible says doesn’t talk specifically about Stem-cell research, Euthaniasia, “Civil unions”, and other things.

We have have the Church, the pillar of truth to help guide us.

The traditional Catholic doctrine that masturbation constitutes a grave moral disorder is often called into doubt or expressly denied today. It is said that psychology and sociology show that it is a normal phenomenon of sexual development, especially among the young. It is stated that there is real and serious fault only in the measure that the subject deliberately indulges in solitary pleasure closed in on self (“ipsation”), because in this case the act would indeed be radically opposed to the loving communion between persons of different sex which some hold is what is principally sought in the use of the sexual faculty.

This opinion is contradictory to the teaching and pastoral practice of the Catholic Church. Whatever the force of certain arguments of a biological and philosophical nature, which have sometimes been used by theologians, in fact both the Magisterium of the Church–in the course of a constant tradition-- and the moral sense of the faithful have declared without hesitation that masturbation is an intrinsically and seriously disordered act.[19] The main reason is that, whatever the motive for acting this way, the deliberate use of the sexual faculty outside normal conjugal relations essentially contradicts the finality of the faculty. For it lacks the sexual relationship called for by the moral order, namely the relationship which realizes “the full sense of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love.”[20] All deliberate exercise of sexuality must be reserved to this regular relationship. Even if it cannot be proved that Scripture condemns this sin by name, the tradition of the Church has rightly understood it to be condemned in the New Testament when the latter speaks of “impurity,” “unchasteness” and other vices contrary to chastity and continence.

Sociological surveys are able to show the frequency of this disorder according to the places, populations or circumstances studied. In this way facts are discovered, but facts do not constitute a criterion for judging the moral value of human acts.[21] The frequency of the phenomenon in question is certainly to be linked with man’s innate weakness following original sin; but it is also to be linked with the loss of a sense of God, with the corruption of morals engendered by the commercialization of vice, with the unrestrained licentiousness of so many public entertainments and publications, as well as with the neglect of modesty, which is the guardian of chastity.

On the subject of masturbation modern psychology provides much valid and useful information for formulating a more equitable judgment on moral responsibility and for orienting pastoral action. Psychology helps one to see how the immaturity of adolescence (which can sometimes persist after that age), psychological imbalance or habit can influence behavior, diminishing the deliberate character of the act and bringing about a situation whereby subjectively there may not always be serious fault. But in general, the absence of serious responsibility must not be presumed; this would be to misunderstand people’s moral capacity.

In the pastoral ministry, in order to form an adequate judgment in concrete cases, the habitual behavior of people will be considered in its totality, not only with regard to the individual’s practice of charity and of justice but also with regard to the individual’s care in observing the particular precepts of chastity. In particular, one will have to examine whether the individual is using the necessary means, both natural and supernatural, which Christian asceticism from its long experience recommends for overcoming the passions and progressing in virtue.

source: newadvent.org/library/docs_df75se.htm

 

[AlegreFe]

yup, you have no understanding or tolerance for men in this matter. it is because you are a woman, and don’t have a clue about what it is like to be a young man.

Of course I don’t, I’m not a man. I never claimed to “understand” what this is like for a man. But I can imagine what it would be like for a woman. Of course men and women are different but that doesn’t mean that men and women don’t have some of the same issues just not in the same way because of the differences in our bodies alone, not to mention the physiological and the hormonal and others too.

My “objection” to this activity would not be because I “have no idea” about this subject. Example; I would NOT want my husband to be doing this, not because I would be “jeolous” but because as a wife, it is my “duty” (lack of a better word) to get this man to Heaven. And he will not get to heaven by doing THAT. As husband and wife we are to Sanctify each other. And how can we do that if we condone each other’s sins?

Aren’t you your brother’s keeper? Yes… we all are. “Admonish the sinner” not because we want to “punish” or because we want revenge. On the contrary, I would want to try to help save your soul. I know only God can do that, but you know what I mean.

Have you talked to your priest about this? Have you confessed this sin? You will get Grace for confessing this so that you can overcome this. Ask God for the strength to help you overcome this sin. Pray, pray and pray some more. If you get the urge, stop and pray before it happens, then offer up your “sacrifice” for not doing it. God will make you strong. This is a matter of just making a decision once and for all to stop because you know this is a mortal sin. I think “cold turkey” is the best and only way to stop anything. It will only be harder if you “take your time” trying to stop.

I said a prayer for you.

 

[AlegreFe]

Here is only a small paragraph from the link that Nekić provided. Thanks for the link.

IS MASTURBATION SINFUL?
Holy sexuality is the loving donation between a man and wife of
their own bodies to one another. In marriage it may be enjoyed for
holy procreation, or to express romantic love, or simply for the
delight that the freedom marriage affords the spouses to release
the tensions of life. It may even be an act of charity! But it is
always a privileged act of special intimacy reserved for spouses
alone. Masturbation, by it’s very nature clouds and degrades the
purpose and privilege of married sexuality. Masturbation is a
solitary act of gratifying one’s own physical urge. Performed as a
solitary act, even in the married state, it degrades the place of
honor of the spouse! It often serves to sexually replace the
spouse entirely! This is because masturbation trains a person to
abuse his own sexual powers outside the intended order of God,
in a selfish solitary way.

 

[AlegreFe]

Short and to the point; same link.

Why Is Masturbation Sin?
Masturbation is a sin because a person consents in their own
heart to take sexual gratification from impure thoughts.
…
The act of masturbation is an outward act that confirms that one’s
heart and mind has consented to an inward act of impurity. Only
by consenting to an imagined act of impurity can one attain
orgasm. To attain sexual release, a person’s will consents to
LOVE something that is sexually impure.

 

[AlegreFe]

Some more from the same link…

Confessing the sin of Masturbation.
If a Catholic has committed sins of masturbation, he must
confess these sins in the confessional in this way: “I have
committed sins of impurity with myself (mention a specific
number).” If a non Catholic has committed sins of masturbation,
he must humbly kneel down and beg pardon for his sins, and
pray to be delivered of such temptations in the future. Preferably,
he would seek out a trusted person who understands this sin:
and confess this sin or habit: as is appropriate. “Confess your
sins one unto another, and you shall be healed.” One must
NEVER describe his sexual sins in such a way that it might be
an occasion of sin to the confessor! One must never mention
names, or details: just the generic name of the sin: and nothing
more. If there are circumstances which make any sin more
especially grievous, then one must mention WHY his sin is more
grievous - but must never he be graphic or explicit about the acts
themselves.

 

[AlegreFe]

Wow, this one’s powerful… same link.

To fully understand why masturbation is sinful, one must
appreciate the holiness of one’s own body, and believe in the true
and sacred purpose of human sexuality. The “spiritual union”
known as “a state of grace” consists in God’s uniting himself with
the body and soul of a human being. The sanctification of a soul
by the grace of God is a spiritual divine union: it is as sacred as
marriage itself! The hearts and minds of Christian people must not
be defiled by gratifying themselves by indulging in impure sexual
fantasies, or by abusing their own physical sexual powers. One’s
body is the temple of the Holy Spirit! One can no more
masturbate in private without the defiling the temple of the Holy
Spirit, than one could masturbate inside a Church without defiling
it! If one believes that his own body is less holy than a physical
building, then he does not at all understand the meaning of the
holy gospel, or the awesome holiness of Christian grace.

The relationship of Christ with his Church is a supernatural
marriage. Christ espouses his Church as a bride. The marriage of
a man and a woman is but a reflection of how intimately God
espouses a soul through the indwelling of his divine grace: which
is the indwelling of his Holy Spirit. All are united to God through
Christ, and through Christ all souls are united with each other.
This holy union of souls is called: the “Mystical Body of Christ” -
or- “The Church”. Christ espouses his Church as a bride.
Christian marriage is only a reflection of this more perfect, and
eternal marriage: that of Christ with his Bride, the Church.

God is jealous of what our hearts and minds consent to indulge
in. This is because his love is intimately personal! God longs to
be loved with the affection and loyalty of a spouse! God desires
and intends to enjoin in a spiritual, even matrimonial union with
the soul. The union with God of a soul in a state of grace is a very
real participation in God’s own divinity! In a state of grace, the
soul mystically participates in the divine life of God himself
through the Holy Spirit dwelling within him. Like committing
adultery within a marriage, acts of masturbation break the souls
covenant of fidelity with God. That is why, usually, acts of
masturbation are mortal sins.

 

[AlegreFe]

For santaro75 and anyone else who needs help with this; I truly want to help.

This website was started by a MAN who was battling with sexual impurity. These links actually name pornography as the main “culprit” but doing the things to overcome pornography would be the same as to overcome ANY sexual impurity including masturbation. And since pornography involves masturbation most of the time… you get the gist.

True Knights

Combat Training: Personal Coaching to Achieve and Maintain Sexual Purity

Books & Tapes that offer advice on how to overcome your addictions.

Breaking Free: 12 Steps to Sexual Purity for Men by Steve Wood.

 

[AlegreFe]

I listed the main line from each of the numbers. So please click the link to see the details for each one. Very powerful for ANY kind of sin!

7 Steps to Freedom and Purity

**1. Abandon your Will to God’s Divine Will!
All for the LOVE of God!

1. Repent and Amend your life!
2. Daily Prayer and Devotion!
3. Live a Sacramental Life!
4. Consecrate your Life to Christ and
   His Mother!
5. Fasting is a very powerful weapon!
6. Replace Vice with Virtue**