I dunno what the title should be.

[bella5110]

How and where did I condemn you to hell?

Saying whatever you wish does not show your love for the Church and Jesus.

You may say how much you love Jesus as many times as you like, but then when you turn around and say stuff like this post, it negates it all I’m sorry.

I don’t wish to sidetrack the thread, so I will try and leave it there

What does my love for the church and Jesus Christ have to do about quoting what Christ said?? You can NEVER make me feel any other way than the peace I have in my heart, and the love of my Saviour Jesus christ.
You can take anything out of context and try to make people feel lousy Kellie, but it doesn’t work with me. Others on here you have done it to, b/c they PM me.
You need to check out your own heart, and worry about yourself and not what others say. Worry about your own soul.

 

[Valke2]

"To me, God and compassion are one and the same. Compassion is the joy of sharing. It’s doing small things for the love of each other – just a smile, or carrying a bucket of water, or showing some simple kindnes. These are the small things that make up compassion…

It is only pride and selfishness and coldness that keeps us from having compassion. When we ultimately go home to God, we are going to be judged on what we were to each other, what we did for each other, and, especially, how much love we put in that. It’s not how much we give, but how much love we put in the doing** – that’s compassion in action.

One’s religion has nothing to do with compassion. it’s our love for God that is the main thing. Many Christians and non-Christians alike come to help in ouir houses in Calcutta and throughout the world. We have volunteers of all religions working with our aides day and night.

Religion is meant to help us come closer to God, not meant to seperate us…true religion, no?"

• Mother Theresa.

 

[HailMary]

One’s religion has nothing to do with compassion.

?

usccb.org/nab/bible/matthew/matthew18.htm#v27

 

[bella5110]

"To me, God and compassion are one and the same. Compassion is the joy of sharing. It’s doing small things for the love of each other – just a smile, or carrying a bucket of water, or showing some simple kindnes. These are the small things that make up compassion…

It is only pride and selfishness and coldness that keeps us from having compassion. When we ultimately go home to God, we are going to be judged on what we were to each other, what we did for each other, and, especially, how much love we put in that. It’s not how much we give, but how much love we put in the doing** – that’s compassion in action.

One’s religion has nothing to do with compassion. it’s our love for God that is the main thing. Many Christians and non-Christians alike come to help in ouir houses in Calcutta and throughout the world. We have volunteers of all religions working with our aides day and night.

Religion is meant to help us come closer to God, not meant to seperate us…true religion, no?"

• Mother Theresa.

As long as you remember this the next time you’re in court…:dancing:

 

[Valke2]

?

usccb.org/nab/bible/matthew/matthew18.htm#v27

That was all part of a Mother Theresa quote.

 

[HailMary]

That was all part of a Mother Theresa quote.

Yeah, I don’t think that statement is quite accurate of Blessed mother Teresa of Calcutta.

 

[Valke2]

Yeah, I don’t think that statement is quite accurate of Blessed mother Teresa of Calcutta.

I pulled it from a book of essays by various people. That one was hers. I’ll give the citation later. Are you saying that I misquoted her or that she was mistaken?

 

[HailMary]

I pulled it from a book of essays by various people. That one was hers. I’ll give the citation later. Are you saying that I misquoted her or that she was mistaken?

Neither.

I think what she is saying is we should not be driven by anything other than charity - in the strict sense. She adds after that:

it’s our love for God that is the main thing.

which leads me to believe that the “compassion” she may have been referring to was that compassion that is driven from selfishness or wanting to help people just to appease thier own feelings.

 

[mark_a]

It’s my understanding that the male body has a way of letting go of all those feelings Naturally: “Wet dreams” also known as “Nocturnal emission”.

That’s true for whippersnappers, but not for older fellows who can still have problems.

 

[Valke2]

Neither.

I think what she is saying is we should not be driven by anything other than charity - in the strict sense. She adds after that:

which leads me to believe that the “compassion” she may have been referring to was that compassion that is driven from selfishness or wanting to help people just to appease thier own feelings.

I didn’t mean to imply anything different. Except I assume you mean driven from selflessness, not selfishness.

 

[AlegreFe]

Masturbation is only a mortal sin if you have full will. For most men, it has been something they started when they were around 12 and have been fighting it since.

True. I agree. You have to have knowledge that it is grave matter and have full consent of the will. And that is why I believe in telling young people that masturbation is a grave matter in the eyes of God and if they start or continue (whatever the case at the time of talk) that it could turn into a mortal sin.

Wouldn’t you want your child to know that if they start to do something that is not good that it will harm them? Of course. I would want all children to know that cigarettes can kill if they start smoking. Now they are aware that cigarettes can be “grave” so the chances of them starting are lower.

HailMary:

You do not want to place this concept in a person’s mind (male or female) that it IS a mortal sin if they have been doing it for 20 years now and if they DO NOT STOP immediately then the next time they do it they go to hell if they die without confession.

No you don’t but you do want to let them know that masturbation is a grave matter. This way they are aware of it. From there they can start the process of healing.

HailMary:

…it is not charitable, and it is not common sense.

Not charitable? Since when is trying to save someone’s soul not charitable? We can’t let someone stay in darkness by ignorance. These people who are addicted to masturbation and/or sex should be told that this is Grave Matter in the eyes of God. By saying that to someone who is not aware that it is grave matter, I am not telling them that they are actually committing a mortal sin. But they must know this information so that they can begin to heal.

If someone masturbates who doesn’t know it is a mortal sin but they do this anyway and they feel empty afterwards and lonely, they have to know that there is a way to heal. And that way is to know that this is grave matter and that there are steps that they can take to rid them of this matter.

Now if I’m talking to a younger person who I think has not started to masturbate, I WILL tell them that masturbating is a mortal sin.

HailMary:

I will repeat, if you have not consented in your will - it is not a mortal sin; translation do you ENJOY what you are doing? If you could push a button to stop immediately, would you do it and rejoice? Do you HATE masturbation?

Someone can be addicted to it and hate that they are addicted to it but still love it while it is happening at that moment. It is afterwards that they HATE it. So in that sense their “flesh is weak” so they need to be told that there is a way to overcome this “cancer of the soul.”

Before this malignant matter can do more damage, they need to be told so that they can heal. If you had cancer, wouldn’t you want to know so that something can be done? Absolutely!

 

[pumpqeen]

Firstly, if you think something is a sin, then you should not do it. Cos doing so means you deliberately sinned and acted against your faith.

As for masturbation, the bible states in Corinthians that a husband is the master of the wife’s body, and vice versa. The two are to be together lest Satan has an opportunity to strike. (Meaning adultery or unfaithfulness).

When we are thirsty, we drink. We drink many things, but we don’t drink poison. When we are hungry, we eat. We eat many things, but we don’t eat non-edible food nor poison. NOW…when we need sex what do we do? We can satisfy it with our spouses but we cannot commit adultery. Simple as that. The whole point is, SEX is okay, but you must do it with the spiritually ‘legal’ person.

The main problem is the Unmarried.

A man can go without food in fasting for several days, but thereafter he eats. Similarly a man can go without sex for several days or even months in endurance, but it is not a long term solution. The bible says that if a man lusts for his betrothed, he should marry QUICKLY. Again, avoiding committing the act of defilement. The bible encourages marriage for those who are single but ‘cannot afford to remain single’.

Our bodies lead us to do many things but not everything is edifying. Made as humans, we have needs as humans, and we were made this way by GOD. Therefore I believe masturbation is not a sin because it does not violate the will of God for us as humans. God will not fault us for eating or drinking because we need it, but still God wants us to pomel our bodies even against food and water during fasting dedicating our bodies to God. We masturbate because we have a need for sex. It is not a sin. What IS A SIN however is when we revel in lust, worldly desire and material gains and refuse to embrace sanctity or endeavor to move towards it. Or we lust after another man’s wife etc. God knows and accepts our imperfection when He called us, but God expects us to move towards perfection, spiritual maturity and sanctity.

Acts 15: 28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell.

 

[HailMary]

Not charitable? Since when is trying to save someone’s soul not charitable? We can’t let someone stay in darkness by ignorance. These people who are addicted to masturbation and/or sex should be told that this is Grave Matter in the eyes of God. By saying that to someone who is not aware that it is grave matter, I am not telling them that they are actually committing a mortal sin. But they must know this information so that they can begin to heal.

Allow me to clarify. I did not mean that it is uncharitable to inform the person, in a loving way, that this act is a sin.

I said:

…that it IS a mortal sin if they have been doing it for 20 years now and if they DO NOT STOP immediately then the next time they do it they go to hell if they die without confession. This is not theologically in line with Catholic thought, it is not charitable, and it is not common sense.

The uncharitable part that I was referring to was:

1. condemning the person to hell if he/ she does it again
2. placing the impossible task on his/her shoulders that they can stop without serious effort. For the most part, when the discussion of masturbation usually comes up, the general vibe I have encountered is: “masturbation is a mortal sin - you will go to hell if you don’t stop doing it” -
   and the other person responds “…”. and leaves it at that; you need to give a real remedy. Confession, Prayer, Eucharist, , and saintly intercessions.

Thats what I meant, excuse the confusion.

God Bless.

 

[bella5110]

I think it sad to see you’re still fighting about this, especially sad for AllegreFe. Still ranting and raving about condemnation for masturbation…pitiful

 

[AlegreFe]

…
Therefore I believe masturbation is not a sin because it does not violate the will of God for us as humans. … We masturbate because we have a need for sex. It is not a sin.

What? God does have a plan for us as far as sex. And those plans do NOT include masturbation. Masturbation is a selfish act which is not a giving act.

Some audio on sexuality from “Theology of the Body” from JPII.
“As sex goes, so goes marriage. As marriage goes, so
goes the family. As the family goes, so goes the world.”
The embrace of Man & Woman is the embrace of the Family

Christopher West points out that “don’t do it” is not enough.
Reclaim the Christian sexual ethic

“Through the fact that the Word of God became Flesh,
the body entered Theology through the main door.”
God’s mystery revealed through the body

“God has revealed his innermost secret… he has destined
us to share in that exchange…to know Divine Love”
Love & Communion

“…and the two shall become one flesh”
God’s eternal plan is to marry us

Sex is supposed to be a beautiful and lifegiving experience between a man and a woman. This experience will make them “one flesh” and that “one flesh” will be given a name as a new child of God. How is masturbation part of God’s plan if it is not “fruitful” and therefore cannot “multiply?” Now this is not to say that NFP cannot be part of the couple’s plan if they want to space their children. Masturbation is not part of natural family planning either so don’t even say that it could be.

 

[AlegreFe]

Allow me to clarify. I did not mean that it is uncharitable to inform the person, in a loving way, that this act is a sin.
I said:

…that it IS a mortal sin if they have been doing it for 20 years now and if they DO NOT STOP immediately then the next time they do it they go to hell if they die without confession. This is not theologically in line with Catholic thought, it is not charitable, and it is not common sense.

I agree with you here. I would never “condemn a person to hell” if they are doing it. I would never condemn anyone to hell for whatever they are doing or not doing.

I hope you were not implying that I was doing that with my posts. I would hate to think that you jumped on the “bellabandwagon.”

I wouldn’t say that the task is impossible. Nothing is impossible with God.

I hope you didn’t feel that “general vibe” with me? That is far from my radar. I would never say that anyone is going to hell. That is not for any of us to decide. But I do feel it my duty to let someone know that something could be a mortal sin because of the grave matter that is involved. And I still say, that I will want to tell someone that I know that is still young and possibly has not started (I would never know that for sure), that masturbation is a mortal sin. I don’t see anything wrong with that because it is the truth.

 

[ErichsGurl2]

Offenses against chastity

2351 Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.

2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action."137 “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of "the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved."138

9 He knowing that the children should not be his, when he went in to his brother’s wife, spilled his seed upon the ground, lest children should be born in his brother’s name. 10 And therefore the Lord slew him, because he did a detestable thing

This is probably a little off the topic (sorry it seems I keep doing that. ). What about phone sex or internet sex with your spouse when maturbation brings both of you pleasure? I know that it stifles the ability to bring children into the world, but when your husband is thousands of miles away from you for a year and a half (military wife, obviously) what do you do? It’s part of a nessessary intimateness that marriages need to survive right?
As a military wife, I miss my husband greatly, and I just don’t know what I’ll do if being intimate with my husband the only way I possibly can is a sin. That is devastating to me, and would be to many other military wives out there. Sex is something that the Church holds sacred, and is absolutely nessessary for the health of the relationship right? And being apart isn’t a health condition preventing the sexual relationship. We can pray together all we want, and yes, waiting is wonderful, but could that really be a sin? Please tell me that it’s not.

 

[AlegreFe]

This is probably a little off the topic (sorry it seems I keep doing that. ). What about phone sex or internet sex with your spouse when maturbation brings both of you pleasure? I know that it stifles the ability to bring children into the world, but when your husband is thousands of miles away from you for a year and a half (military wife, obviously) what do you do?

It’s called SACRIFICE for the better good!

It’s part of a nessessary intimateness that marriages need to survive right?

Wrong. Any marriage can survive without sex. It’s all about God and what He can do with a couple. You’d be very surprised. This might mean that God has set aside a time for you to reflect. Have you ever sacrificed anything in your life before? Perhaps you have. And if you have, perhaps it’s time for bigger sacrifices. Pray about it. Go see Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament and let Him guide you.

ErichsGurl2:

As a military wife, I miss my husband greatly, and I just don’t know what I’ll do if being intimate with my husband the only way I possibly can is a sin. That is devastating to me, and would be to many other military wives out there. Sex is something that the Church holds sacred, and is absolutely nessessary for the health of the relationship right?

Wrong. I have never heard that the Church says that sex is ABSOLUTELY necessary for the health of the marriage. Where did you hear that?

Have you heard any of the audio’s that I have in my previous post? Maybe you should take a listen. You can click on this link too about the Theology of the Body. Don’t worry too much. I can imagine that you don’t want to sin and you want to remain faithful. My prayers are with you.

ErichsGurl2:

And being apart isn’t a health condition preventing the sexual relationship. We can pray together all we want, and yes, waiting is wonderful, but could that really be a sin? Please tell me that it’s not.

I think you should present this question to an Apologist in this forum.

Somehow I would think that this is not normal because it seems the same as a couple having relations with a condom and that is a sin because you are trying to tell God that you just want the pleasure but no life to come from it. And the man is also supposed to give himself fully and completely and with a condom that is impossible. And the woman is supposed to fully receive her husband’s gift to her but with a condom that is impossible.

I still think of “sacrifice” and putting God first. Go to Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament and pray to Jesus and He will guide you.

Peace and God bless.

 

[Valke2]

I don’t see how you can say any marriage can survive without sex. Sex is an integral part of marriages and marraiges fail because of it all the time.

If phone sex between spouses is going to save their marriage, and who am I to say that it won’t?, than which is worse? Masturbation while talking to one’s spouse, or abstention resulting in divorce?

 

[AlegreFe]

I don’t see how you can say any marriage can survive without sex. Sex is an integral part of marriages and marraiges fail because of it all the time.

If phone sex between spouses is going to save their marriage, and who am I to say that it won’t?, than which is worse? Masturbation while talking to one’s spouse, or abstention resulting in divorce?

It is possible for a marriage to survive without sex. It is according to circumstances in the marriage of course. In ErichsGurl2’s case, her husband is not with her. I think it would have to survive because of such a circumstance. If it doesn’t than it wasn’t a marriage to begin with. And I’m sure that ErichsGurl2 would beg to differ and say that she has a real marriage and loves her husband very much. Therefore she will make the marriage work without the sex no matter what it takes. Jesus first right?

In other circumstances it could be that a couple is waiting on an annulment. A non-practicing (but believing) couple could be married but one of the spouses is divorced and never got his/her first marriage annuled. The couple starts learning more about their faith and they start going back to Mass. But they know they cannot receive communion because of such circumstance. They both go to confession and because they want to remain right with God they stop all marital relations, live as brother & sister and this way they can go to Mass, go to confession regularly and receive Jesus. They do this as they wait for the annulment to go through. After it does, they get married in the Church and then and only then can they resume their marital relations. And no matter how long it takes, they will wait because they do not want to commit adultery just to give in to sexual feelings or temptations.

You would be very surprised how something like this can bring the couple closer together on a higher level… on a spiritual level. The couple now puts Jesus Christ FIRST before themselves and certainly before any “feelings” that could arise in any relationship. This is time for mediation, prayer, growing in faith or anything else that the couple might need either spiritually or emotionally.

A marriage is a lot more than just sex.

btw… the couple of which I speak… my husband and me.

We are still waiting on my husband’s annulment to go through. It’s been almost a year now.