I feel doubtful about some of the church teachings on sex between a married man and woman... Help?

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mcjackson said:
Indeed, I understand that our job as a married couple is to have kids, and this is something I fully intend on doing. But you don’t have to ejaculate inside a woman’s vagina every single time you climax in order to have kids.
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So do you think using the pill on and off would be acceptable also?

If we stretch this out further, there is no explicit reason we could give why a person couldn’t have casual sex outside of marriage when they’re young, and then later enter a fully monogamous marriage and then have kids and a great family as usual. After all, many irreligious people do that very thing, and Christians that fall out with their faith end up doing that, even though they later regret it.
 
TK421 said:
So do you think using the pill on and off would be acceptable also?

If we stretch this out further, there is no explicitly reason we could give why a person couldn’t have casual sex outside of marriage when they’re young, and then later enter a fully monogamous marriage and then have kids and a great family as usual. After all, many irreligious people do that very thing, and Christians that fall out with their faith end up doing that, even though they later regret it.
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The short answer is no. The pill makes conditions for a possible embryo unlivable, and I think that this is no better than abortion. Also, I think sex should be within marriage only.

The point is I am not stretching this out further. This is the one teaching I don’t feel fully understanding of.
 
Thank you all for your time and your replies. I think I will take my questions to my RCIA instructor or to a priest.
 
mcjackson said:
The short answer is no. The pill makes conditions for a possible embryo unlivable, and I think that this is no better than abortion. Also, I think sex should be within marriage only.

The point is I am not stretching this out further. This is the one teaching I don’t feel fully understanding of.
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Right, but the natural theology behind why contraception is wrong is that it deliberately nullifies the procreative nature of sex. This is something Christians fought against in the ancient pagan world as well. It’s for the exact same reason that a male climax must occur inside the wife’s vagina.
 
It is great that you are asking questions!!! This is exactly the right thing to do.

I’ll try to give a few brief points of advice.
First, we should accept the Church’s teaching regardless of whether or not we understand the teaching. No one goes through life without questioning or feeling unsure of Church teaching, many of the teachings on faith and morals are tough. However, this is the very reason WHY Christ instituted the Church. Because some of the truths which God wishes to tell us, whether they be about faith or morals, are really hard to understand or even believe in at times. But by establishing the Church, **Christ made it so that we need not have any doubt because we can trust the Truth of the Church as if it was Christ himself who is speaking!! This is the beauty of Catholicism. **
mcjackson said:
Yes. I think that the issue is that I remain unconvinced that objective truth exists on the topic. If someone showed me a quote from Jesus or one of the original apostles saying something along the lines of “Yes, every time you ejaculate during sex with your wife, it must be inside her vagina”, then yeah, that seems like objective truth to me.
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Now, as to your specific question about marital relations: I cannot give a perfect answer. I will say however an entire system of ethics goes in to this. Its not that the Church one day thought up some random rules. The basic idea is that an act is good insofar as it conforms to the ideal, or the fulfillment of a nature. So a heart is a good heart if it does what hearts do, namely, pump blood to the body. Well, we do not have deliberate control of the heart, we have deliberate control over other areas of our being (physical and non-physical). Where we do have deliberate control, we have the ability to make these parts good by the definition just given, in other words, we can ensure that certain parts of our being fulfill their specific ends. This includes reproductive acts which must be ordered to new life. Any act which is not ordered to new life (an act in which new life cannot follow) is by definition a bad act because the goodness of our reproductive abilities is in the fulfillment of their natures, in other words, in acts which are open to new life by their very nature.
 
DaddyGirl said:
There is a bishop in Ireland who gave a big speech about this last year!
Telling all Cafeteria Catholics (tho he didn’t use that phrase) that they should not bother attending mass and just leave the church.
I remember a big debate about that here on CAF. Some agreed, some did not.

.
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Wow. Embarrassing.
 
If the Church teaches something (and that is a big if when contemplating many of the “church teachings” found on the Internet), we have the assurance of faith that the teaching is true, good and beautiful, and beneficial for our souls. That’s why Christ founded the Church in the first place.
 
Well, in one respect, a person that just lives in pretend-mode where they’re living in daily sin and yet still attending mass (and presumably eating the body and blood of Christ) probably isn’t gaining anything.

I’ve heard it argued before that cutting themselves off from the community would just make them stray further in their sin, but this is actually something St. Paul mentions in the epistles concerning obstinate people. He says to hand them over to Satan, and the reason he gives is that “they might in the end be saved”.

Just something to consider. A lot of what we define as being compassionate today is anything but.
 
mcjackson said:
To cut right to the chase, and to be brutally honest, I feel like what happens consensually in the bedroom between a husband and a wife should stay within the bedroom between the husband and wife. To think that the church will be involved in those kinds of things and say what I can and can’t do makes me feel uncomfortable.
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Christ is involved.

You should listen to the Church, our Teacher on faith and morals, the Spouse of Christ. It is written:
that you may know how you ought to behave yourself in the house of God, which is the Church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
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I think your questions would be better addressed by talking to a priest, or using the Ask An Apologist forum/email/phone with a specific question.
 
DaddyGirl said:
I imagine if Jesus actually said these words, it would have been included in the Christian canon as a quote, so I’m guessing he did not?
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It doesn’t matter.

“Whoever hears you, hears Me.”

“Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in Heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in Heaven.”

"“All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
 
mcjackson said:
Yes. I think that the issue is that I remain unconvinced that objective truth exists on the topic. If someone showed me a quote from Jesus or one of the original apostles saying something along the lines of “Yes, every time you ejaculate during sex with your wife, it must be inside her vagina”, then yeah, that seems like objective truth to me.
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If you “need” a quote from Jesus or one of his original apostles saying that - you probably aren’t going to read it.

What other Church teaching besides this one do you “need” to read a quote from Jesus or one of the original apostles?

I’m sure you realize many things you are learning in RCIA do not have a matching quote from Jesus. Remember the Catholic Church is not a Bible only church.

Your visit with your priest will be helpful. Maybe some of the books others listed will help.

As with understanding and studying all of Church teachings, pray for guidance from the Holy Spirit as you study and reflect.

May God continue leading you to His Holy Church.
 
mcjackson said:
Indeed, I understand that our job as a married couple is to have kids, and this is something I fully intend on doing. But you don’t have to ejaculate inside a woman’s vagina every single time you climax in order to have kids.
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Your job as a married couple (regarding, specifically, the marital embrace) is to live according to God’s law. That is, to be chaste. (Note: “chaste” within the marital relationship is not the same as “celibate”). Each and every time you and your spouse engage in any sexual contact you must fully integrate and express the true meaning of the marital embrace.

So, to say, “I fully intend to complete the sexual act in the way the Church says, but it doesn’t have to happen every time” is like saying, “I fully intend to tell the truth in my article at the end. It’s just that there are some lies thrown in there, here and there. But, in the end, the truth comes out in my presentation.”

It is also not correct to summarize the Church’s teaching on marriage as “our job as a married couple is to have kids”.
 
mcjackson said:
Yes. I think that the issue is that I remain unconvinced that objective truth exists on the topic. If someone showed me a quote from Jesus or one of the original apostles saying something along the lines of “Yes, every time you ejaculate during sex with your wife, it must be inside her vagina”, then yeah, that seems like objective truth to me.
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First check out Genesis 38:9-10 on the teaching of not wasting your "seed"second not everything we believe as Catholics is contained in the Bible(see 2 Thess 2:15.I hope this helps ,and please continue to pray about it .And like others have posted already Bl.JP2’s Theology of the Body is a must to understanding God’s plan and will in regards to sex and marriage.God Bless!
 
mcjackson said:
Yes. I think that the issue is that I remain unconvinced that objective truth exists on the topic. If someone showed me a quote from Jesus or one of the original apostles saying something along the lines of “Yes, every time you ejaculate during sex with your wife, it must be inside her vagina”, then yeah, that seems like objective truth to me.
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There is. In the Old testament, God struck someone dead for spilling his seed. Sorry I can’t remember more details, but the catechism sites it. Just look it up there and read the Biblical citations it references.
 
TK421 said:
**Among the many harmful effects of pornography and intentionally ruminating lustful thoughts, one of them is that a lot of modern guys, especially us younger ones, have cultivated a fetish towards climaxing a certain somewhere that we are not suppose to, which I’m guessing is what this thread is passively trying to get at. **

The Church is an extension of God’s will, so if you feel uncomfortable with the Church teaching on extremely personal matters related to sexuality, than it is the same as feeling uncomfortable with God doing so. Sexuality is unitive and procreative. Contraception, gay sex, and climaxing outside of the wife are all a violation of this, and it is inconsistent in principle to condemn one of these things but not the other.
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Very important point. The media in general and pornography specifically has completely warped our expectations of sex. I think the real questions is this: is it so important for you to feel “safe” or “justified” performing certain sexual acts that you are willing to walk away from God? After all, you can’t go back and say that you didn’t know. Some people genuinely don’t know that these acts are immoral. You do and are choosing your opinion over what the 2000 year old church teaches. That is actually pride. I hope that you will prayerfully consider what the Church teaches and more importantly why rather than go by what mainstream society says is “normal and acceptable.”
 
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