I feel so sad and moved with pity for judas

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Prophecies happen because of events, not events because of prophecies. God foretells of men sinning because He is already there witnessing them do it of their own free will, and even telling them what they will do does not deter them from doing it.
 
mythbuster1 said:
Prophecies happen because of events, not events because of prophecies. God foretells of men sinning because He is already there witnessing them do it of their own free will, and even telling them what they will do does not deter them from doing it.
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That’s always been a sticky point for me when it comes to all-mighty gods in history.

They’re all-powerful. All the “omnis”. AND they’re creator as well.

It doesn’t take a powerful mind to make the jump that everything is going as that god had planned. From the good stuff right down to the rotten stuff. All created in foreknowledge. Any “will” on our part is an illusion.

But I’ll say no more of it here, don’t want to hijack the thread. Last word is yours.
 
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As has been mentioned, the Church has never definitively said that Judas is in Hell, and it is of course possible that he repented before his death, but it isn’t looking good for him. Jesus is quoted as saying both at Matthew 26:24 and Mark 14:21 that if someone were to do such an act “it would have better for that one not to have been born.” Cornelius a Lapide on his commentary on this verse said “it is exceedingly probable that Judas abides in the deepest pit of Gehenna, near to Lucifer, and is there grievously tormented” for “true deicide”:

Matthew 26:24:

The Son of Man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that one by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better for that one not to have been born.

From Cornelius a Lapide:

Ver. 24. The Son of Man indeed goeth , &c. Good were it for that man if he had not been born. For “far better is it not to exist at all, than to exist in evil. The punishment is foretold, that him whom shame had not conquered, the denunciation of punishment might correct,” says S. Jerome. He threatens him with the woe of damnation. For far better is it not to be, than to exist only to be endlessly miserable, as I have shown on Eccles. iv. 2, 3. Wisely does S. Jerome say (Epist. ad Furiam ), “It is not their beginning which is inquired about in Christians, but their ending. Paul began badly but ended well. Judas’ beginning was commended, but his end was to be condemned as a traitor.”

Goeth. “By this word,” says Victor of Antioch, “Christ showeth that His death is like rather to a departure or passing away, than to real death. He signifies, likewise, by it that He went voluntarily to death.” Moreover, the betrayal of Judas was an act of infinite sacrilege, perpetrated directly against the very Person of Christ and God. Thus it was true deicide. Wherefore it is exceedingly probable that Judas abides in the deepest pit of Gehenna, near to Lucifer, and is there grievously tormented. And this seems to be indicated by the word woe , which Christ here pronounces upon him above the rest of the reprobates. Blessed Francis Borgia was wont, in meditation, in the depth of his humility, to place himself at the feet of Judas, that is to say, in the lowest pit of hell, exclaiming that there was no other place fit for him, neither in Heaven, nor in earth, nor under the earth, as the due reward of his sins.

http://www.catholicapologetics.info/scripture/newtestament/26matth.htm
 
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I do not. Waste of time. Although the Church has never declared him to be in hell - he went to his special place according to Saint Peter.

Three years of traveling with Jesus. Three years of looking into the eyes of God; listening to His voice, watching miracles; even performing miracles with the power received from Christ.

And at the end of this, he sells Him out? For more money, just like the money he stole along the way? John was correct about Judas being a thief. Money is not the root of all evil: LOVE of money is. And Judas made the decision, consciously and over three years, to love money more than God. Since God’s justice is perfect, there is nothing for us to fret over.

A waste of irreplaceable time.
 
Joshuajoseph12 said:
Personally I feel very sad for Judas Iscariot
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This is very tongue in cheek - if it had been Reuben (rather than Judah) behind the selling of Joseph to those merchants who were on their way to Egypt, would there have had to be an Apostle called Reuben of the Siccari?
 
John_Martin said:
  1. Therefore the church teaching prescribes the correct and True reading of scripture from a multiplicity of readings, where readings contrary to church teaching are false readings and false teachings and false meanings.
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The Church teaching is correct because readings contrary to Church teaching are false teachings therefore the Church teaching is true.

No. That’s not gonna work for me sorry.

I’m just gonna stick with…
  1. Scripture (God’s Word) is true.
  2. Church teaching is scriptural.
  3. Therefore Church teaching is true.
 
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Lion_IRC said:
That’s not gonna work for me sorry.
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Of course it does not work for you - you are not Catholic; you are outside looking in on us being faithful to what we received and telling us we are losing out on your participation if we don’t abandon whom we follow and teach private interpretations of scripture splitting into more and more so-called ‘denominations’ refusing to be one because they assert their own private interpretations of a book they pirated from the Catholic Church.
 
Lion_IRC said:
Why do I have to defend a position I don’t hold?
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You don’t. You claim that my position is in error, however. So… let’s see the counter-example that supports your claim!
Lion_IRC said:
You put quotation marks …
Who are you quoting?
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You. (And me.) 😉
Lion_IRC said:
The Church teaching is correct because readings contrary to Church teaching are false teachings therefore the Church teaching is true.

No. That’s not gonna work for me sorry.
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Nice strawman. 😉

That’s not what @John_Martin wrote, however. Rather, it was “Church teaching gives us accurate interpretation of Scripture. Readings contrary to Church teaching give us inaccurate interpretations.”

See? No circular logic there. Just “circles are circles, and things that are not circles are not-circles.” Simple. Easy. Logically consistent. 🤷‍♂️
 
Many of us feel sad for Judas. I think the reason we feel sad is that Scripture indicates Judas felt remorse for what he had done, although he did not react in the right way to that remorse. Him returning the money was a good thing to do, but killing himself rather than asking Jesus’ forgiveness was wrong. It is possible that at that point he was so consumed with grief and guilt he was not in full control of his will, as often happens with suicidal people. Some people also feel sorry for Pilate because they see him as trying to do the right thing but he was too weak and failed. No one ever feels sorry for Herod, Caiphas or the other Jewish priests trying to put Jesus to death, because they showed zero remorse or unwillingness to kill Jesus, based on scripture.

We do not know what happened to Judas’ soul, so if you are sorry for him then the best response is to just pray for his soul and ask God that if somehow Judas cannot be saved then please apply the prayers to save another sinner. Perhaps it would be appropriate to do a plenary indulgence for Judas. Or to say prayers to God to save Judas, the sinner, and ask him to back date the prayers to Judas’ lifetime.
 
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its difficult to have pity on someone who was predestined to live such a short life
 
porthos11 said:
Really, Judas does not deserve any grief or emotional energy.

Move on to those who really need some pity and attention. They live in today’s world.
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This makes no sense. We are called to care about the souls of everyone, whether they live “in today’s world” or thousands of years ago. When we pray for souls in purgatory, do you think they all died in the last 50 years? There are probably souls in purgatory from before Judas’ time even.

Furthermore, the human conception of earthly time does not exist to God who is outside time, and therefore Judas might as well be living in our neighborhood today as living in the time of Christ.

One simply prays for people and asks God to apply the prayer at the right time, which God can do. There’s nothing wrong with praying for Judas. If he truly has already gone to hell OR to heaven then God will simply apply the prayers to help someone else in need.

However, if you would prefer to pray for people who need pity and attention today, I would call your attention to all the criminals sitting in the Death Row or Life Without Parole sections of our prisons who are certainly in need of prayers. Some of them are probably even suicidal, like Judas, You can pray for them as they need our pity and attention today.
 
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If they were to ask for our prayers then I think I myself would be confronted with that issue
 
We don’t just pray for people who ask for our prayers. The people most in need of prayers probably don’t believe in prayer, or in God. Or they’re too proud to ask others to pray for them. Or they think they’re not worth it, or so bad that a prayer wouldn’t help, or they hate the idea of people being kind to them, etc. All of these people need our prayers very much.
 
The lenght of the life has little to do with the pity we can feel.
 
…There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores. “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side.

The rich man also died and was buried. In Hades, where he was in torment…

[bolded emphasis] Can we really be certain this man was in hell? What does Church teaching tell us?

Unless my reading of scripture is wrong, Jesus similarly tells us that Judas was/is lost to perdition.

Related question. If Judas blasphemed the Holy Spirit, could we safely say that sin would not be forgiven? (Pardon my ignorance of Church teaching if the answer to this question is bleedingly obvious.)
 
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Well, I don’t believe Hell and Hades are the same place. Hades is the world of the dead before the resurection. As for sining against the Holy Spirit… The Scriotures and Church Fathers do not seem to blame Judas of this…
 
I guess it’s natural to feel sorry for Judas in the sense that one understands the position he was in as one of the original twelve apostles and yet he chose to throw it all away. I think Judas serves as an example to everyone that we need to persevere in our faith and not cling to any false assumptions that we are safe and secure.

I don’t pray for the soul of Judas because I believe that Judas is in hell. Also there has never been any prayers or feasts in our Church’s history, that I’m aware of, that ever once mentioned that are we are to pray for the soul of Judas. That seems to hint at the understanding that Judas is not in a state or place, where prayers can save him now.
 
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