I Feel Uneasy about Marian Veneration

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I converted in 2018. I’m on board with the theology and dogmas that the Church has proclaimed about Mary. Nevertheless I feel like the “veneration” we give to Our Lady can easily become idolatrous. What makes me feel most uncomfortable are the prayers that often seen when I’m going through my prayer books. I often ask Mary to pray for me and to give me certain graces through her intercession, but I feel it must always be stressed that these graces come from God.

The prayers that I often see talk about Mary as an all-loving mother. I understand that she is special above all the saints because she was born without since through the grace of Our Lord, yet phrases like “keep us close to you at every moment of our lives,” and “motherly affection for all of us” strike me the wrong way. I see it as people trying to assign divine traits to a mortal, human woman. Though she is in heaven can hear all of our prayers, how can she be all-loving if she is divine? Ultimately I’ve always been rubbed the wrong way about how many prayers speak of her the same way we would speak of Jesus, as someone who is always with us and we should devote our lives to. We don’t say such things about the other saints. I’ve just reached the point where I have to confront this.
 
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Mary is NOT “divine”, and the things you mention do not sound the least bit “divine” or giving her “divine” traits to me.

Friend, it sounds like you have the same problem that about 100 other converts have posted about on here: you’re not comfortable with Marian devotion.

Please understand that first, your “feelings” about Marian devotion don’t mean that it is that way. If you are not comfortable saying some prayers you aren’t used to, you don’t need to say the prayers, but at the same time it doesn’t mean that the rest of us who have been saying those prayers since we were young and are very comfortable with Marian devotion are giving Mary “divine” traits.

Second, you do not have to practice Marian devotion if it bothers you. I also am unaware of anyone going around telling Catholics that they “have to devote their lives to” Mary. Some people choose to be strongly devoted to Mary, and some people, even some saints, have had a different focus, such as being strongly devoted to the Sacred Heart of Jesus, or to the Eucharist.

Third, I would strongly suggest that you please search the forum and read some of the many, many other threads on this topic because we get one about every 1-2 weeks.
 
I think as a new convert you have concerns that many of us life-long Catholics hear. It may take awhile for devotion to Our Lady to grow, and then again it sounds like you have plenty of devotion already. You don’t have to “buy into” some of the prayers you are seeing that seem over the top to you. However, remember that she is “full of grace”; there is nothing but God’s love and goodness (His grace) in her, so she is indeed all loving. God is love, and those in heaven, especially those closest to God like His mother, are through God’s indwelling grace bearers of His love. As the Catholic saints have put it, in a wonderful exchange, God became human so as to make us humans divine. God has through His generosity given the highest possible honor to Mary, but she well knew (as we profess) that she is simply a human being greatly favored by God (her Magnificat). Jesus gave us Mary from the Cross to be the Mother of all Christians, since Christ is Our Brother. Anyway, I’m looking and trying to respond to each of your objections. They are not problems for Catholic theology and devotion. But again the Church does not mandate that you find this kind of devotion attractive.
 
Rather than Veneration I would call it great love for her - they love her enormously.
 
She plays a unique role in salvation history. Jesus got his humanity from her. We can never honor her enough. She is first among saints.
 
How does the “worship“ of someone who says, among other thing, this-
My soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord, my spirit rejoices in God my Savior
…not automatically raise the awareness of the “this object” to what she is speaking?

Can you actually worship something/someone that yields to a higher power?

Peace!!!
 
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As you “time in grade” increases, understanding - one of the seven gifts of the Holy Spirit - will increase. The best place to ask for an outpouring of understanding is before Christ in the Blessed Sacrament, but that will have to wait.

When this current situation eases, I strongly suggest that you go before Christ and lay out your doubts directly to him - then listen. Be as patient with Him as He has been with you. And when you receive your consolation, you will be changed.
 
I hear you. I also converted in 2018 and struggle with this. I do have to say that sometimes when people bring up this discomfort, the explanations can be lacking given the depth of concerns and questions being expressed. I think it is hard for some who grew up with this culturally to truly empathize with people who objectively question the practice. I have heard many of the opinions on it but it isn’t something I’m going to force because it makes me over intellectualize it. I pray the Rosary. Learning it was a penance given to me on a Marian Feast day. I did have prior curiosity about it so it was an easy penance to carry out. I love praying it even if it isn’t a daily devotion. Sometimes I feel compelled to pray it, other times I have no interest. I do it when it feels right. I still don’t feel closer to Mary so much as I feel calmed and closer to God and Jesus as I pray it. I just think of the Hail Marys as meditative and keep it moving. I may never develop a Marian devotion but I’m ok where I stand now.
 
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I think it is hard for some who grew up with this culturally to truly empathize with people who objectively question the practice.
It’s not just hard for me because I’m a cradle, it’s also because I’ve seen converted Protestants who didn’t have an issue with Marian devotion. The main one being my own father, who was raised Baptist and Methodist, converted to Catholicism at age 40, and silently prayed a rosary every night for years without talking about it.

There are also some cradle Catholics who do not feel close to Mary for some reason so it’s not just converts, although we see it more in converts because the cradle Catholic is more likely to just say they don’t feel drawn to Mary and to go pray some other way, rather than make speeches about how Marian prayer feels “idolatrous”.

It’s one thing to say that you do not care for Marian devotion prayer forms. I think that’s relatively easy for Catholics to accept; there’s lots of prayers out there, just try another way. However, the “idolatry” thing is going to turn a lot of Catholics off because we don’t “worship” Mary or think of her as “divine”. It’s not just that we don’t do this, it’s that Mary doesn’t want that. She has great humility, and always does God’s will not her own, and only wants to lead us to Jesus. So if we treated Mary in the way that you’re claiming, Mary would find that repulsive to be honest, and she would be the first one to tell us to stop. It’s like you’re accusing us of insulting both Jesus and our mom.

It feels like we spend day and night explaining this to people from a Protestant background, and they just don’t get it. How many times can we say the same thing over and over, that we don’t worship Mary or treat her like some divine goddess, and have somebody else say “Well, I feel that you are.” It causes one to just throw up one’s hands after enough times.
 
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I’m sorry that you have negative experiences with people claiming things about Marian devotion that do not align with your experience. In all fairness, I hoped my response pointed to me coming more to a stance of I don’t understand but am embracing the Rosary and maybe the understanding may unfold, rather than any accusations.That’s where I’m at.
 
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How does the “worship“ of someone who says, among other thing, this-
My soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord, my spirit rejoices in God my Savior
Worship is of two kinds: adoration, asking for divine help, and sacrifice, given to the Holy Trinity alone, and veneration, the asking for intercession with the Holy Trinity, giving of honor, and imitation, given to the good angels and saints alone.

Etymology of worship Old English weorthscipe, honor, dignity, reverence: weorth , worth +ship.
 
Worship is of two kinds: adoration, asking for divine help, and sacrifice, given to the Holy Trinity alone, and veneration, the asking for intercession with the Holy Trinity, giving of honor, and imitation, given to the good angels and saints alone.

Etymology of worship Old English weorthscipe, honor, dignity, reverence: weorth , worth +ship.
While this is true, I think the Church nowadays avoids using the word “worship” for Mary or any saint, because it’s too hard to explain to non-Catholic Christians that we are not putting Mary or the saint in the place of God despite the use of a word that makes them think otherwise because they’ve been taught wrong things about the Church.
 
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Rather than Veneration I would call it great love for her
No… veneration is the proper word. We Catholics ought to stop apologizing for our veneration of the Blessed Mother. We don’t worship her but she does deserve a special veneration (hyperdulia) above the rest of the saints.
 
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yet phrases like “keep us close to you at every moment of our lives,” and “motherly affection for all of us” strike me the wrong way. I see it as people trying to assign divine traits to a mortal, human woman
I ignored Mary most of my life. I was baptized as a baby, but my family pretty much stopped all religious practices just before my first communion.

As an adult I felt God wanted me to know him. There was a strong pull to the Catholic Church but I resisted. I did find my way back, but like you I felt uneasy about some Marian devotions. Heck, even now some things don’t seem right.

But I’m coming to realize as Jesus is the image of the living God, a distinct person but one with the Father & Holy Spirit, three in one. Mary is the image of the Church, the bride of Christ.

So think of the Church as your mother, who conceived you in the Spirit of God. She carries you in her womb. Nurses you, nurtures you as you grow in the Spirit. Follow Jesus, through Mary, the image of the Church.
 
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Vico:
Worship is of two kinds: adoration, asking for divine help, and sacrifice, given to the Holy Trinity alone, and veneration, the asking for intercession with the Holy Trinity, giving of honor, and imitation, given to the good angels and saints alone.

Etymology of worship Old English weorthscipe, honor, dignity, reverence: weorth , worth +ship.
While this is true, I think the Church nowadays avoids using the word “worship” for Mary or any saint, because it’s too hard to explain to non-Catholic Christians that we are not putting Mary or the saint in the place of God despite the use of a word that makes them think otherwise because they’ve been taught wrong things about the Church.
Is 1974 nowadays?

St. Paul VI, Marialis cultus, 1974
Trinitarian, Christological and Ecclesial Aspects of Devotion to the Blessed Virgin

25. In the first place it is supremely fitting that exercises of piety directed towards the Virgin Mary should clearly express the Trinitarian and Christological note that is intrinsic and essential to them. Christian worship in fact is of itself worship offered to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, or, as the liturgy puts it, to the Father through Christ in the Spirit. From this point of view worship is rightly extended, though in a substantially different way, first and foremost and in a special manner, to the Mother of the Lord and then to the saints, in whom the Church proclaims the Paschal Mystery, for they have suffered with Christ and have been glorified with Him.(68)

(68) Cf. II Vatican Council, Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy, Sacrosanctum Concilium , 104: AAS 56 (1964), pp. 125-126.
http://www.vatican.va/content/paul-...nts/hf_p-vi_exh_19740202_marialis-cultus.html
 
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Worship is of two kinds: adoration, asking for divine help, and sacrifice, given to the Holy Trinity alone, and veneration, the asking for intercession with the Holy Trinity, giving of honor, and imitation, given to the good angels and saints alone.
An issue is that ‘worship’ in English is used to translate two distinct Latin words:

(1) The noun cultus, which are the rites, practices and acts of liturgy, devotion and piety that can be offered either to God or others.

(2) The noun adoratio (as well as the verb adorare) which is act of paying the honour that is due to God alone, and so is applicable only to the Triune persons.

Oftentimes, to avoid confusion, adoratio is translated using the Latinisation ‘adoration’ or ‘adore’. Likewise, praestare cultum Deo (lit. ‘to offer worship to God’) is sometimes translated as ‘to worship God’, but translations of praestare cultum Mariae vel Angelis vel Sanctis avoid using the verb ‘worship’, instead opting for the more literal translation ‘to offer worship to Mary and the Angels and the Saints’. Sometimes, cultus is translated directly as ‘cult’, but that probably poses more difficulties for the casual reader.
 
I am a lifelong Catholic - I’m 69 and I do love Mary. I will confess that I am not comfortable with some of the overly flowery devotional language (like Louis de Monfort uses) but I am quite comfortable asking for her to pray for me. And in the end, that’s my Marian devotion. I ask for her prayers.
 
I entered the Catholic world in my early teens and was baptized shortly thereafter. Due to my cultural atmospheric upbringing (I say “atmospheric” because it was all around me, even though I wasn’t raised in it), of the Southern evangelical fundamentalist tendency, I had a very hard time acclimating to Marian devotion. To add insult to injury, I read a very well-written, persuasive fundamentalist religious tract two or three years into Catholicism, and it shook me to the core — “Could Catholicism be wrong? Could this be an idolatrous mother-goddess cult?” — but I resisted with everything I had, even though for about a year I was very squeamish about my daily rosary.

I won’t presume to be your spiritual director, but there is such a thing as agere contra — “act against it” — when you have a spiritual problem, challenge, or doubt. Throw yourself entirely into Marian devotion. Say the rosary. Wear the Brown Scapular. Study the Fatima message (from reliable Church sources, not extreme fringe movements). Get a good, traditional book on Our Lady and read it.

https://www.amazon.com/Fatima-Lucias-Words-Lucia-Santos/dp/0911218106


 
I thought about this thread while doing my morning prayer. I think it illustrates what the OP was referring to.

The antiphon:
City of God, you are the source of our life; with music and dance we shall rejoice in you, alleluia.
We’re obviously talking about Jesus right? The source of our life.

The verse:
The heavenly Jerusalem is a free woman; she is our mother (Galatians 4:26).
Isn’t that usually used in reference to Mary’s motherhood?

The Psalm:
On the holy mountain is his city *
cherished by the Lord.
The Lord prefers the gates of Zion *
to all Jacob’s dwellings.
Of you are told glorious things, *
O city of God!

“Babylon and Egypt I will count *
among those who know me;
Philistia, Tyre, Ethiopia, *
these will be her children
and Zion shall be called ‘Mother’ *
for all shall be her children.”

It is he, the Lord Most High, *
who gives each his place.
In his register of peoples he writes: *
“These are her children,”
and while they dance they will sing: *
“In you all find their home.”
Isn’t this also “usually” used in reference to Mary or the Church?
 
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