"I get God from the Bible"

  • Thread starter Thread starter Callum
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
C

Callum

Guest
A friend of a friend was raised Catholic, but is now quite adamant that the Church as an institution is unnecessary and that she can get to God from the Bible, and is quite disparaging about The Seven Sacraments, which I offered as the genuine (and indeed only) way to God.

What scriptural and traditional evidence is there for the necessity of the Church and of the administration of the Sacraments?
 
I would suggest getting the books “Where is that in the bible,” “Why is that in tradtion” and"Answer me this!" All three are by Patrick Madrid. Trying to go through all three books (plus other resources I have on hand) would be way too long of an answer. Ok, so my “resources” aren’t unlimited. I have a few more books, and a couple of other things that help me out. Actually, I haven’t used them recently because those who know me are mostily Catholic. Other than immediate family. My mom was the one who had the hardest time accepting me being Catholic. If anyone pushes you too hard, you could tell them what I finally told my mom. “I don’t understand everything.”
 
Callum said:
but is now quite adamant that the Church as an institution is unnecessary and that she can get to God from the Bible
Click to expand...
Perhaps you have already mentioned to her that without the Church there would be no Bible?
 
  1. What makes her think the bible is genuine?
  2. What does she say to those who use the exact same method as she answers to 1) and decide instead that bible is not genuine or that the Book of Mormon or some other text is?
  3. How does she know that she is reading the bible correctly?
  4. If her answer to number 3 is something along the lines of prayer: why doesn’t that work for people who disagree with her? (i.e. I pray and read and arrive at the conclusion that you’re wrong, why doesn’t this prove that you are wrong?)
  5. If her answer to number 3 is something along the lines of logic: given that humans can mess logic up and God knows this, would He leave as the only source of truth something so easily misinterpreted?
That is, there are thousands of denominations that are certain that they are correct in their reading of the bible, and such a situation is the unavoidable consequence of sola scriptura together with human nature. Would God incarnate and then leave us in a situation where disunity is unavoidable?
  1. If we were intended to follow the bible alone, what were Christians supposed to do before the bible was compiled?
  2. How were the Christians supposed to know what texts made up the bible, and how do we know they were right?
etc.
 
The bible itself says that parts of it are hard to interpret correctly (referring to Paul’s letters I believe).

2 Peter 3:6 “He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.”

We need an infallible interpreter for an infallible book.
 
Callum said:
A friend of a friend was raised Catholic, but is now quite adamant that the Church as an institution is unnecessary and that she can get to God from the Bible, and is quite disparaging about The Seven Sacraments, which I offered as the genuine (and indeed only) way to God.

What scriptural and traditional evidence is there for the necessity of the Church and of the administration of the Sacraments?
Click to expand...
…it is quite simple:

…either Jesus knows nothing (He founded the Church, isisted that not even Hell could take her, and that He would Be with her till the end of times) or the friend of your friend is more Divine than God!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
James 22-25:

But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. For if a man be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he shall be compared to a man beholding his own countenance in a glass. For he beheld himself, and went his way, and presently forgot what manner of man he was. But he that hath looked into the perfect law of liberty, and hath continued therein, not becoming a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work; this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Clearly just reading and listening to the Word is not enough. You must live it, and the way to live the Word is through the Sacraments and through charitable works.
 
Callum said:
A friend of a friend was raised Catholic, but is now quite adamant that the Church as an institution is unnecessary and that she can get to God from the Bible, and is quite disparaging about The Seven Sacraments, which I offered as the genuine (and indeed only) way to God.

What scriptural and traditional evidence is there for the necessity of the Church and of the administration of the Sacraments?
Click to expand...
Better yet the question begging to be posed:

Chapter and verse where all one needs to know about God is strictly in the Bible?
 
Is her main hangup the Sacrament of Reconciliation?

Darn convenient in non-Catholic churches to self confess general sins (where they are neither venial or mortal).
 
Barbkw said:
Is her main hangup the Sacrament of Reconciliation?

Darn convenient in non-Catholic churches to self confess general sins (where they are neither venial or mortal).
Click to expand...
Perhaps in the sacred scripture sub forum, one would expect that your response would actually illuminate the sacred scripture or even the interpretation of it, or show a commentary or early father on the matter.

No, here we see catholic faith at the core.

Don’t agree? How convenient.
 
Callum said:
A friend of a friend was raised Catholic, but is now quite adamant that the Church as an institution is unnecessary and that she can get to God from the Bible, and is quite disparaging about The Seven Sacraments, which I offered as the genuine (and indeed only) way to God.

?
Click to expand...
then she has disregarded Christ’s own words and actions.
Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit he shall not have eternal life.

Where in the Gospels does Christ say you don’t need him, you only need a book? The burden of proof is on her.

If the sacrificial priesthood is unneccessary, why did Christ ordain bishops and priests?
If the Eucharist is unneccessary, why did Christ institute the Eucharist?

if the Church is unneccessary, why did Christ start his Church?
et cetera
 
She’s more knowledgeable than I! 🙂

One of the reasons I love Catholicism is the cohesion and the already-in-place biblical interpretation. I do not and have never believed that most people can just read the Bible and WHAM! understand/apply the words.

Thanks to the Church and much gratitude for God for this!!! 👍 This new Christian appreciates it.

Carrie
 
Callum said:
A friend of a friend was raised Catholic, but is now quite adamant that the Church as an institution is unnecessary and that she can get to God from the Bible, and is quite disparaging about The Seven Sacraments, which I offered as the genuine (and indeed only) way to God.

What scriptural and traditional evidence is there for the necessity of the Church and of the administration of the Sacraments?
Click to expand...
You can look at 1 Tim 3: 15. The Church being the pillar and foundation of truth means that it upholds and defend the truth from error like how a pillar prevent a building from falling. Yes, we can find we can get God from the Bible, but who can protect the interpretation of the Bible from error; and who can settle a dispute between the individuals that have different interpretations of a particular passage? You can also look at Mt 18: 15-17. It clearly show that the Church is necessary to settle a dispute. If your brother has done wrong and he doesn’t want to listen to him, bring it to the Church.

As for the administration of the Sacraments, I think it is best to explain what they are and the effects that we get from them. Sacraments are outward signs of an inward grace. God gives us grace (in specific, sanctifying grace) through objects, which symbolizes the effecacy of that grace. For example, our original sins are washed away in baptism, and water (the object being used) symbolize cleansing.

After you explain that, you can look how throughout the Bible, God always work through an object (either a person or any other materials) to give us what we need. When Israel was enslaved, God could easily zap them out of Egypt. Instead he brought them out of Egypt through Moses. In the time of Noah, God could easily get rid of the evil in the world and leave Noah and his family. Instead, He used water to cleanse the earth and a boat to save Noah and his family.

Humans are visual learners. We learn better if we actually see what is happening. We cannot see God’s grace because we are in the flesh. However, objects can help us understand the grace that God gives us.
 
StrawberryJam said:
Perhaps in the sacred scripture sub forum, one would expect that your response would actually illuminate the sacred scripture or even the interpretation of it, or show a commentary or early father on the matter.

No, here we see catholic faith at the core.

Don’t agree? How convenient.
Click to expand...
…I’m one of those dense people… can you expand on Catholic Faith at the core?

Maran atha!

Angel
 
SurlyMermaid said:
She’s more knowledgeable than I! 🙂

One of the reasons I love Catholicism is the cohesion and the already-in-place biblical interpretation. I do not and have never believed that most people can just read the Bible and WHAM! understand/apply the words.

Thanks to the Church and much gratitude for God for this!!! 👍 This new Christian appreciates it.

Carrie
Click to expand...
…one more thing we also have to consider is the fact that as the Church fought all of the heresies that emerged (since her inception) she sodified the Faith by structuring Christian Doctrine based on both the Sacred Writings and Sacred Tradition…

Maran atha!

Angel
 
jcrichton said:
…I’m one of those dense people… can you expand on Catholic Faith at the core?

Maran atha!

Angel
Click to expand...
I see how my post was rather confusing.

You are most likely not of of the people who can not explain.

The OP is defending his catholic faith.

In this thread, I have seen his defense consist of mocking others rather than going to the core catholic truths that can be found in the bible.

This is not to demean the Op but to bolster his defense of the Catholic faith in a more agressive and persuasive manner. Not in a manner that demeans others.
 
Callum said:
A friend of a friend was raised Catholic, but is now quite adamant that the Church as an institution is unnecessary and that she can get to God from the Bible, and is quite disparaging about The Seven Sacraments, which I offered as the genuine (and indeed only) way to God.

What scriptural and traditional evidence is there for the necessity of the Church and of the administration of the Sacraments?
Click to expand...
Your friend, (and you may wish to remind her) is already sharing in a Sacred Tradition, which is Scripture itself.

As much as our Protestant Brethren may or may not wish to admit it…it indeed was the guys in the “Pointed Hats” that compiled the books of the bible that we BOTH share!

However our Protestant Brethren did remove 7 books 500 years ago…our New Testament is the same…set up in the same way…(thanks to your neighboring Catholic Church)…

So her devotion is “tradition” as well.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top