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Catholic_Dude
Guest
Not “up to baptism” but rather up till the last time you repented. Places like 1 Jn 1:9 say if we fall into sin and confess God will “Cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
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Reformed
Guest
That’s good. Please consider Romans 6. Do you think that those who are in the flesh have the freedom to do good to please God? Do you think those who are in the Spirit are enabled to be in bondage to sin? For me, free will is a neutral status of not being influenced by the old or new nature. We are either in bondage to sin, or slaves of righteousness…which is not neutral. The will is not free, but is in bondage or inclined one way or the other. Christians are bondservants of Christ. We are no longer our own because we were bought with a price.
1 Corinthians 15:10
But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God that is with me.
I Will Put My Spirit Within You
22 “Therefore say to the house of Israel, Thus says the Lord God: It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations to which you came. 23 And I will vindicate the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, and which you have profaned among them. And the nations will know that I am the Lord, declares the Lord God, when through you I vindicate my holiness before their eyes. 24 I will take you from the nations and gather you from all the countries and bring you into your own land. 25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. 26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules. - Ezikel 35
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Catholic_Dude
Guest
Apart from grace, the naturally good work does not rise to a supernaturally good work, and thus does not please God as far as salvation goes. But that does not make the good work objectively sinful, as Calvinism teaches. For example:VII. Works done by unregenerate men, although for the matter of them they may be things which God commands; and of good use both to themselves and others: yet, because they proceed not from an heart purified by faith; nor are done in a right manner, according to the Word; nor to a right end, the glory of God, they are therefore sinful and cannot please God, or make a man meet to receive grace from God: and yet, their neglect of them is more sinful and displeasing unto God.
Westminster Confession Ch16
This comment is unbiblical and poor theology.
Yes, they can put themself back into bondage, as places like Gal 5:1 explicitly warn.
I disagree. Free will is greatly affected depending on whether you are in good standing with God or not. The more you sin, the harder it becomes to choose good, the more good you do, the easier it becomes.
True, and thus the “neutral” categorization does not make sense in the first place.
True, and this means with grace you can now elevate your thoughts and actions to a supernaturally God pleasing level.
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mikeledes
Guest
How do you reconcile the sovereignty of God with the free will of Adam? Or do you believe that God caused Adam to sin in order to be completely sovereign. I highly doubt that. As Catholics, we affirm the truth that God is sovereign and at the same time affirm that God involves the will of man in accomplishing His plan of salvation. God does not depend on the will of man.
Secondly, the Calvinist teaching on sanctification is quite synergistic and I have not met a single Calvinist who denies that sanctification is essential to “see the Lord.”
God Bless,
Michael
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mikeledes
Guest
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Reformed
Guest
Don’t you think God intervenes and changes the will of men for His purpose and will? Start with the OT and work through the NT and see how God intervenes in unbelievers and believers alike. Maybe you can start with Pharaoh?
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mikeledes
Guest
The Catholic Church teaches that unless enlightened by God’s grace, no man can properly repent or come to faith.
God Bless,
Michael
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mikeledes
Guest
So you believe God causes people to sin? That He moves their will to sin?
Also, do you believe God decreed the fall of Adam?
God Bless,
Michael
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Reformed
Guest
There are degrees of God’s grace given to different individuals right? For instance, a baptized Roman Catholic infant is given superior grace than an infant from a nonbelieving household, correct? So, who determines when and were a child would be born?
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Reformed
Guest
I believe that God acts passively and actively. Who restrains evil? When God removes the restrains of evil, what is the result? What is your understanding of Pharoh whom God hardened so His name would be feared among the pagan nations? How about Romans 1 and the removal of restraining grace. God has His ways to accomplish His will without being the author of sin.
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moondweller
Guest
Wolves can’t reverse redemption. Even dead sheep still belong to the Shepherd.
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moondweller
Guest
In context 1 Jn. 1:9 is not written to or about believers, the redeemed.1 John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us."No true believer would ever say he has no sin.1 John 1:10 "If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us."Obviously this does not describe a true believer.
“Confess” in 1 Jn. 1:9 is the Greek word “omologômen” and means to acknowledge. The personal pronoun “we” in verse nine should be understood in its general sense, not specific, as it’s used in verses eight and ten, before and after it. The one who hears the gospel of Christ and acknowledges his sin (unlike the Gnostics in John’s day who denied even the concept of sin), God is faithful and JUST (because of the cross of Christ) to forgive him his sins and cleanse him from ALL unrighteousness. This is not an ongoing experience for the believer now in Christ, in whom he HAS redemption, the forgiveness of sins.1 Cor 1:30 But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,"
Eph 1:7 “In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace”
Col 1:14 "in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins."It’s through the cross of Christ that God forgives the believer of ALL his transgressions. That’s why John says that He (God) is legally JUST when He does:Col 2:13-14 “When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.”
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Thing
Guest
I take it that the wolves are not physical wolves but spiritual wolves and they do not spare the flock, - that either means something or it means nothing. If the wolves are powerless then it is pointless for God to point out that wolves will not spare them. If the attack is spiritual and from a mortal foe like a wolf and if you are not spared the attack then you die, spiritually.
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moondweller
Guest
Of course they’re not physical wolves. No man has the power to reverse another man’s redemption.Jn. 10:27-28 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand."That includes the “wolves.” They may introduce destructive heresies and promote apostasy with their doctrinal errors, and as those doctrinal errors take hold (like works salvation), produce apostates (men amongst them who never believed), but His sheep hear His voice and He knows them, and they follow Him, and He gives them eternal life and NO ONE will snatch THEM out of His hand.
One of the false teachings of “wolves” is that some one CAN snatch them out of His hand. Thereby calling Him a liar.
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Thing
Guest
He said wolves will not spare the flock, the flock are His people, those who believe in Him and follow Him.
His flock are not those who do not believe in Him and who do not follow Him.
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sandusky
Guest
"They will never perish, and no one can snatch them out of Mine or the Father’s hand” means something, or it means nothing as well, Thing.
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Reformed
Guest
God is much bigger and stronger than the wolves, Satan, our inclination to apostate, and our apparent free will. The new birth is everything. Praise God that He promises to protect us from the evil one (Satan, fallen angels, and wolves). Please notice we are not protecting ourselves or holding oursevles. It is God who is protecting us and holding onto us. As a father of three children, I want to provide, love and protect my family the best I can. I am limited with my desire to protect them since I am but dust. However, our Heavenly Father promises to protect, provide, love, and glorify His adopted children. The difference is God has the complete ability to fullfill His promises to His adopted children. Our faith is in God and not ourselves.
1 John 5
Overcoming the World
5:1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him. (no baptismal regeneration here) 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome. 4 For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. 5 Who is it that overcomes the world except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?
Testimony Concerning the Son of God
6 This is he who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not by the water only but by the water and the blood. And the Spirit is the one who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. 7 For there are three that testify: 8 the Spirit and the water and the blood; and these three agree. 9 If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater, for this is the testimony of God that he has borne concerning his Son. 10 Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. 11 And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.
That You May Know
13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life. 14 And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that if we ask anything according to his will he hears us. 15 And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests that we have asked of him.
16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God [1] will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death.
18 We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him.
19 We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.
20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life. 21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. 1 John
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moondweller
Guest
Are you calling Him a liar, Thing?
In the physical “church” there are “wheat” and “tares.” The tares (which look like wheat) were never His.
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Thing
Guest
Well here it is again in case it gets lost in all the personal opinions posted above.
The wolves get the sheep. The flock are the people who belong to Him.
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sandusky
Guest
Even sin will not separate us from God completely. If sin can separate us from God completely, then salvation is no longer on the basis of grace, but on the basis of works.
Once one has been found, and regenerated, he cannot be lost (1 Pet 1:3ff).
That’s your tradition getting in the way; in the passage, Jn 10:27ff, Christ knows His Sheep, and His Sheep know Him, and follow Him—continuously.
What’s all this talk about robots all about?
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