I got in trouble for kneeling to receive Communion

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

I agree with this. Work your personal issues out away from the rest of the church.

Sounds like it has a lot to do in this particuliar situation with the youth minister and the OP carrying the “employer/employee” relationship to the church also. Sounds very “Southern Baptist” to me, where deacons typically are business owners and their emploees are just congregation. Sounds like both people could handle this better.

If I were the OP I would be the grown up here and talk to the man in private.

Actually my opinion is since it is not mandatory to kneel and standing is the norm, why even make this an issue? Sounds like the OP is the one that is on tenious ground wanting to prove a point that “he is right” and is using the church as his weapon.

You obviously did not read the posts of the OP. It wasn’t he who made the scene, it was the youth minister. And the OP is not on tenious grounds for wanting to do what the Holy See is saying it is alright to do. He has been kneeling for Communion for a year. He was not doing it for a point that “he is right”. He does it because he has been convicted in his heart that it is more reverant to kneel before JESUS. And the Holy See agrees.
It was the youth minister who made the scene, and the one who is making threats toward his vocation. The youth minister has no right to kick him out because he wants to do what Rome has explicitly said it good for him to do.
With all due respect, you are speaking backward.

 

[estesbob]

and many of those telling us that we should not kneel to be in obedience with the US Bishops are the same people who are disobedient to the Church on a variety of moral issues, all of which are much more grave than one’s decision to either stand or kneel during communion.

The only person who ever received communion who had not been disobedient on morals at one time or another sat while he recieved it.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

Because the OP didn’t make this an issue. The YM did by disrupting the Mass.

As has been stated on this thread too numerous to count, the OP has the right to kneel.

The YM is wrong. Period. End of discussion of whether the YM is right or wrong. I don’t know how much more clearer it can get.

They obviously see the youth minister as the be all and end all of the authority of the OP’s faith issues.

 

[Michael_Neal]

The only person who ever received communion who had not been disobedient on morals at one time or another sat while he recieved it.

Well you know as well as I do that is not what I was saying. I meant disobedient in that many of these people take a position contrary to teachings of the Church, not whether or not they have sinned before.

 

[onetimeposter]

It seems that there are so many rules in the RCC that everyone gets confused?!

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

While I don’t know the OP personally, when I see incidents such as these I tend to agree. When you have 700 people lined up for Communion, and one (or two or three) decide they must kneel at the front of the line, it creates a clear disruption for others, and brings attention to ones self, at a time that we are supposedly focused on Christ in the Eucharist.

There are countless other ways to demonstrate one’s reverence without making a scene to prove a point and bring attention to one’s self.

The only way there has to be any disruption, or even be observed is if people are trying to rush through Communion in order to get out of Church faster. I have been in Mass where some people in front of me kneel, and some stand, and some genuflect. None is an interruption, as we are supposed to be contemplating recieving Jesus while standing in the line…not paying attention to what the guys at the head of the line are doing.

 

[maryj]

I can’t even get over that this has gone on for 16 pages. Reverence is in the heart, not in outward appearance. Kneel, stand, or sit (as my mother had to) just make sure that the reverence comes from the heart. As for all the “hatred” shown toward a fellow Christian (the YM) how’s about a “little” forgiveness for him. Maybe a prayer too!! I’m sure the Holy Father would be saddened by a lot of the words used in this thread.

For the sake of His sorrowful Passion
Have mercy on us and on the whole world.
Amen.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

Why do you assume someone assumes a reverent posture just to make a point or bring attention to themselves? Isn’t that rather judgemental?

Sometimes a person is reverent because it’s the right thing to do, and not to make a point or draw attention to themselves. As the saying goes, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

When I recieve kneeling down, I pray that God will make me invisible to those who would see it as a self rightous act of pride. Jesus knows my heart. And He knows that kneeling to recieve Him is never for attention to myself by anyone other than the Holy Trinity. I do it to prove to Him that I know that I owe Him that reverence, and I do it out of love and thanksgiving for Him allowing me, a poor sinner, to recieve Him.
It is never done to show others how wonderful a Catholic I am, or to be judgemental of others. My act of kneeling is strictly between my Jesus and me.

 

[estesbob]

It seems that there are so many rules in the RCC that everyone gets confused?!

Of course if we were protestants we would just run off and start our own denominations-one where they knelt and one where they stood. Then they would spilt again between those who wanted to receive on the tongue and those who wanted to receive in the hand, followed by another split between those who wanted to stand after communion and those who wanted to kneel

Foretunately we are not like our Seperated Bretheren-although we may bicker over the rubrics we all remain in the bosom of the One Ture Church.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

Fine. Kneel, stand on your head, whatever…but then don’t whine when others take notice. When you do something that stands out from the rest, and then complain when others take note, you asked for it.

Like the woman who is well-endowed, and wears skin-tight blouses with plunging necklines, then feigns offense when men ogle…

That comment just proves how warped your thinking is on this issue. We do not stand on our head or act in any way irreverantly by kneeling. Even if you notice, even if you don’t approve, you cannot rightly stop us…as it is our right to be reverent in the kneeling position. It is not calling attention to ourselves, although there will be some…who are minding the business of others rather than there own…who will notice. I should not have to stop my reverant behavior on their account…just as I am not asking you to not be reverant on my account. My kneeling, or anyone else’s does not hinder anyone…except those who feel anger at anyone who shows reverence to Jesus during Holy Communion because they don’t want to feel bad that they are not, or those who wish to hurry the process along in order to get out of Mass faster. Neither one of those things have anything to do with those who wish to kneel, only with the one who feels he has the right to tell us we should not kneel.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

But, you’re all on the bandwagon, judging the person who commented to the person who kneeled for Communion?

Pot meet Kettle…

The youth minister was wrong and the OP needs to understand that his posture of kneeling was correct. The OP was attacked unjustly in the name of the Catholic Church…he said "we don’t do that, and if you do it even during Sunday Mass, you will be kicked out of the group, and have no way of communicating through the ministry of the Church with any of the youth.

THE YOUTH MINISTER was wrong in that he is stepping way over the boundaries of a lay person, and he is affecting very strongly this young man’s life.

There is no post calling the kettle black on this thread by those who see the truth for what it is.

 

[Michael_Neal]

It would not be an issue at all if people just let others receive communion they way they wish. In America it is lawful to receive standing or kneeling. I don’t care if people stand, I don’t judge them or think anything of it.

So if I kneel, mind your own business. Simple as that.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

I wonder how many people would be defending my rights here, if I were to go to a TLM and insist on standing and receiving in the hand?

You are truly invited to start your own thread on this forum to find out. That is surely your prerogative.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

hamburglar’s first post in this thread said:For the past year or so, I have been kneeling to receive Communion. I have not been told not to, although it takes some of the EMHC’s by surprise sometimes. … [The youth minister] said that I was not allowed to kneel and that “we don’t do that here.” I stated that the documents say the one cannot be denied Communion because of kneeling, and he said that is not true. … Now, I realize that the norm is standing. But the GIRM does in fact say that I cannot be denied Communion because I am kneeling. What should I do about this?
I don’t think hamburglar considers his preference to receive while kneeling (which he has done for a year) “making a scene”. It was not disruptive until the youth minister made it an issue of contention. hamburglar is allowed to receive Communion while kneeling, and the Church has made it clear that people who do this are not to be made to feel like they are being disobedient or behaving illicitly. The youth minister’s “scare tactics” are the issue here.

And I think it is the youth minister who is “using the church as his weapon”, making hamburglar’s involvement with the youth ministry incumbent upon his receiving Communion how the youth minister dictates. What “attack” has hamburglar launched with his mighty weapon of the Church?

Furthermore, a Catholic has rights (namely here, the right to receive Communion while kneeling); but it sounds like some are saying he should just suck it up and deal with the fact that his rights are being denied him, and that, because they deal with the Church, pursuing those rights would be “using the church as his weapon”.

Thank you for saying it so much better than I. I truly appreciate it, as I never think that my words are enough to the point. I am glad you are involved in this conversation.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

Churches have been known to use weapons in the fight against kneeling. One family was actually arrested and charged with disturbing a religious service. The case went all the way to the Supreme Court of Canada, which ruled that they had not disrupted the service in any way (they had knelt to receive, been denied Communion and returned to their pew).

Canada is becoming a scary place for Roman Catholics. I am continuing to hear more and more Roman Catholics losing their ability to practice their faith in accordance with Rome.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

Actually, and I think youi would know better than that, the posture of standing is not licit in the EF. The posture is to kneel and receive on the tongue. You can’t mix and match between the OF and the EF. The valid options in the OF are to either kneel or stand. The only posture for the EF is to receive Holy Communion kneeling and on the tongue. Therefore, under the EF, you would not have the right to stand and receive Our Lord in your hand. The only exception to the kneeling, to my knowledge, would be if you had a serious impediment that would prevent you from kneeling.

Thank you for making that clear. It is what I thought, but you have taken away all doubt.

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

We are not called to give up reverence simply because someone else is uncomfortable being around it.

You have really crossed the line here.

Standing is NOT giving up reverence. This is just the attitude which causes people to believe that kneelers are just trying to say," Look at me–I am so much more reverent than you"

Lux

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

Originally Posted by Lux et Tenebrae
Universal norm is to kneel OR STAND ACCORDING TO THE INSTRUCTIONS OF THE BISHOPS CONFERENCE.

Hand or tongue is an option of the communicant. posture is instructed by the bishops. Kneeling is allowed in the US, but the norm is standing.

So, what is it that you are trying to say? No one is saying that you can’t stand, but some are trying to say that we cannot kneel. So, what is the point you are trying to make in the above quote.

Read the universal norm–perhaps you may understand…

but then again…maybe not.

Lux

 

[elgar]

Coming from the Anglican tradition, it goes against my every fiber to stand to receive our Lord. I suppose it is something I will become used to, but it just seems inherently wrong.

Paul

I’m still hanging on in the Anglican tradition and always kneel at the rail to receive the host and on the tongue. My priest would never make a scene by chastising parishoners over something like this.

With the absence of communion rails in most Catholic churches contributes greatly to the problem. I say bring them back and give folks the option. And, I don’t understand why so many of the liberals have such a hard time with the kneeling issue in general. The only thing I can speculate is that the kneeling posture is a humble one and we’ll have “none of that” these days. Guilt is out. We’re much more advanced now. And don’t be singing “Let Us Break Bread Together On Our Knees” unless you are actually doing it!

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

Wow, that is a really tough situation (and sorry for referring to you as “she”…I was following the crowd). It doesn’t seem like your Youth Minister is handling the whole thing as well as he should (and the personal comments about you being a bad priest unless you change is a little uncalled for).

Now the question is, what do you do? I’d like to piggyback off of what Ted in Charlotte said:

First, to be fair, I’m not sure that it is the OP that is trying to prove that “he is right”. Rather, it seems more that some other posters are indingnant on his behalf.

That said, we cannot approach this situation in a vaccuum of Church documents and CDWDS letters. Yes, the Youth Minister did not handle the situation as well as he could have. And, yes, perhaps you are correct that you have every right to kneel and not be denied Communion. But, the fact is, in real life, people don’t always respond the way they should. So here are your options as I see them:

Talk to the pastor about the situation. And what are the possible results from this?

1. 
   *]The pastor agrees with you 100 % and immediately fires the Youth Minister for stepping out of line. This seems unlikely.
   *]The pastor agrees with the Youth Minister 100% and tells you exactly the same thing: stand or leave your position.
   *]The pastor takes some sort of pastorally middle ground. He doesn’t fire the Youth Minister, but he sits both of you down to talk (either separately, together, or both) and allows you to receive while kneeling without losing your position.
   *]The pastor does nothing and tells you to work it out amongst yourselves (thereby leaving you in the exact position you are in right now).
   
   Result #3 may look good on the surface, but you have to keep in mind that, even if you succeed in getting your way and not losing your position, your relationship with your Youth Minister will never be the same. This will have repercussions in that your working relationship will be strained (which may hurt the effectiveness of your Youth Ministry program as a whole). You may find your Youth Minister making things more difficult for you in other things.
   
   Your second option is:
   
   Follow the Youth Minister’s request. Based on the interaction you have posted, it seems likely that, even if you pull out a notarized, signed copy of the CDWDS’s letter, he still will not change his mind. So, if you opt not to take the issue to your pastor, it seems you will not likely convince the Youth Minister to change his mind. Maybe it would be “unjust” for the Youth Minister to let you go over this. That doesn’t mean it won’t happen.
   
   Your third option is:
   
   Voluntarily leave your position of Youth Ministry. This does not seem to be what you want to do, but it is an option, nonetheless.
   
   It’s easy for us here on the internet to shake our heads in righteous indignation that your “rights” are being violated, point to this or that Church document or Curial statement, and say “You’re right, OP. Case closed. Now, tell that Youth Minister where to get off!”
   
   But the reality is not so simple. You have to live with the consequences, and there are no easy answers. You have to decide what is likely to happen, what might possibly happen, and what you can live with. Can you stand your ground (no pun intended) and kneel, knowing that you will not be able to minister to the youth of your parish? Can you (perhaps temporarily) let go of your desire to kneel in favor of keeping the peace and keeping your position? Would you really rather not receive Jesus at all rather than receive Him standing? What’s more important, the posture, or the Sacrament?
   
   I can’t tell you what to do. No one here can. But I think it does you a disservice to paint the picture as clear cut, black and white. You could be 100% in the right. That doesn’t mean you still won’t get fired.
   
   IMO, it comes down to what is most important to you: the posture in which you receive? Your working relationship with your Youth Minister? The great privilege and responsibility of working with the youth of the parish to bring them closer to Christ? Only you can answer these questions.

1. 
   There is of course another way to handle it. If he is fired or forced out by bad relatioships due to this, he could write a letter to all of the parents and teenagers in the youth program.
   He could enclose in it the letter from Rome that explicitly states that anyone who recieved in the kneeling position is perfectly in their right to do so.
   And he could explain exactly what happened, what was said on both sides of the argument, and what the result was.
   At least in doing this, parents and teens will be aware of what is going on in the parish. And they can decide for themselves.
   I have left parishes where my reverent behaviour was totally unwelcomed. I found other parishes during the years who are in total accordance with Rome.