I have been challenged by sedevacantists..

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As you do more research on this group, you will come to realize that they are extremely sectarian and thus they tend to have much infighting among each other to a fault. It is characteristic of this schismatic sect to have several if not many breaks within their ranks. You will find that to some among this sect that they have many cultic tendencies which also contribute to more schisms among these groups. Since they have rejected the principle of unity in the Church, namely the Pope of Rome, they cannot no matter how hard they try find unity among themselves or come to a consensus of agreement on Catholic teaching and practice.

Most of these groups will die off and be relegated to the shadows of history, much like the Jansenists. The devil knows that by getting people to reject the principle of unity in the Mystical Body, the Pope of Rome, they can end up in despair and disbelief. So many people who leave the Church to find what they consider traditionalism really end up following a form of congregationalism dressed up in Roman finery–since most independent chapels follow congregational forms of government so as to not lose the property if a chapel decides to leave this priest or Sedevacantist group for another or to go simply choose their own priests. Vatican II was a shock to the system for a minority of Catholics who did not either understand the reforms of the Council due to improper formation or who understanding the reforms quite well desired to rather reject the collective Voice of the Pope and bishops in an Ecumenical Council–which is sheer pride, although to them it was piety.

Whatever the case, the Lord has demonstrated continually through the ages that those who remain united to the Pope of Rome, whom the majority of Catholics follow, will be at peace and have the consolation of the Holy Spirit that they are with Peter.
Sedevantists may use the image of the Ark to validate their lack of members or that they are not as large as the Church united to the Pope in Rome, but this is due to their sectarianism and not due to their being the “Lord’s faithful remnant”.

The Church united to the Holy Father in Rome is the largest Church in the world; for the Lord calls the world to unity and within Her bosom they are finding the unity Christ prayed for and this consequently causes the Church of Christ to swell in numbers. When SV’s criticize the Roman Church for scandals, they themselves are no short of scandals. When they criticize the Catholic Church for abuses, they also have abuses. When they criticize the reformed rites of the Church, they themselves attack each other over rites, ceremonial, and liturgical methodology.

When they criticize the Roman Pontiff for his so-called modernism they follow the most modern and yet most ancient and diabolic principle: that is the rejection of legitimate authority. In the end once they read off the litany of defects for being in communion with the current Holy Father, they can only return to their chapels without the consolation of a true Shepherd, a true Papa, instead they are set at the whims of schismatic priests, who may have invalid orders and bishops who have no jurisdiction or who may not even have the apostolic succession–who are only leading them in rebellion against the Church Christ Founded and the Visible Head He gave the world until Our Lord comes again visibly to the world. One can believe all he wants that he is a Catholic, but if he is not in communion with the Holy See he is only deceiving himself–for to be Catholic one must be in communion with the Visible Head of the Church, the Pope of Rome and to state otherwise is plain self-deception.
 
Finally, he went too far and got my goat, so I blasted him and told him in no uncertain terms that he sounded exactly like Martin Luther…and he and is friends are of the same heretical ilk. He actually paled when I told him that Luther’s original intention was to “Save the Church”.
He has stopped bothering me, in fact, he has stopped talking with me entirely, which is fine by me. It gets sooooo boring coping with fanatics.

I once looked into sedevacantism, they can be pretty strident, then I heard a well know “sedie” priest in a sermon say; "Don’t assist at masses of SSPX, SSPV, CMRI, etc. They’re all as bad as the Novus Ordo! ". BINGO! The sedevacantists are just as divided as the Protestants! The marks of the true church are; One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic! The “sedies” are divided, therefore unholy, isolated, so not universal, (catholic,) and separated from Rome, therefore not apostolic!!! 'Nuf said!!!

The Church had problems in Luther’s day - he was still wrong. There are issues in the Church today, what’s new but those who reject Holy Mother Church to save Her are wrong, Wrong, WRONG!!!

Stay away from the sedevacantists - far away!

My Apologies if I overstepped or stepped on any toes - all I’m saying is the sedevacantists position is an epistle of straw to borrow from an earlier heritic.

Southwell
 
Today I was in a conversation with Sedevacantists who claimed the modern day Roman Catholic Church is in a great apostasy because it was supposely taken over by freemasons at Vatican II. They also claimed that the Pope is an “anti pope” and that the thrid secret of Fatima warned the Church would fall. I was wondering, how do I respond to such nonsense? Please help, because this kind of makes me want to leave the Church due to fear as in if this was true.

God Bless,
BVMFatima
You could respond to this nonsense by telling them you’re very sorry to hear they’ve become Protestants. 😉
 
Today I was in a conversation with Sedevacantists who claimed the modern day Roman Catholic Church is in a great apostasy because it was supposely taken over by freemasons at Vatican II. They also claimed that the Pope is an “anti pope” and that the thrid secret of Fatima warned the Church would fall. I was wondering, how do I respond to such nonsense? Please help, because this kind of makes me want to leave the Church due to fear as in if this was true.

God Bless,
BVMFatima
You tell 'em to eff off. All joking aside, you politely tell them you’re not interested, and change the subject or move on, just as you’d do with Jehovas, Mormons, etc. Don’t even bother engaging in “dialogue” with them. It’s a lose-lose proposition.
 
Sedevacantism is simply a conspiracy theory among many others. It is just as deluded as any other conspiracy theory, where the same old and boring cliches are again mixed and recombined to produce a Hollywood-like scenario: illuminati, NWO, Jews, Masons, 666, kitschy crimes and plots worthy of B-series movies, various inexistent “secret documents” the knowledge of which makes the theorists feel better about themselves. Conspiracy theorists are a bunch of very vain guys, because believe that they are a privileged “elite” who knows more than the ordinary people and that their duty is to fight and save the world. All conspiracy theorists want is the frightened admiration of other people.

Unfortunately, conspiracy theorists are able to convince a lot of naive people, because they offer something that reality usually doesn’t offer: a SIMPLE, COHERENT scenario, with Bad Guys who plot to seize all the power and money in the world or to destroy the world and Good Guys who resist, fight and are keen to become glorious heroes and martyrs. Bad guys are usually strangers, aliens, creatures who we fear because we don’t know them (Jews, Moors, “savages”, “illuminati”, vampires, Masons). Good guys are like us (an elite composed of white civilized men who find out about the malefic plans and then start to gather an army and prepare their followers for some dangerous battles meant to save the world). But reality is always more complex than that. It doesn’t resemble a fairy tale or a Hollywood scenario.
 
Oops… I just deeply wanted to point out the absurdity of the claims that these people are making.

It makes me sad to think that there are people out there that are in the Catholic church who are looking at every dark corner of their minds to find a reason to complain - instead they should direct their sight to good and light. Indeed, as it stands now, the Catholic church is a light to the world.
 
=BVMFatima;10169377]Today I was in a conversation with Sedevacantists who claimed the modern day Roman Catholic Church is in a great apostasy because it was supposely taken over by freemasons at Vatican II. They also claimed that the Pope is an “anti pope” and that the thrid secret of Fatima warned the Church would fall. I was wondering, how do I respond to such nonsense? Please help, because this kind of makes me want to leave the Church due to fear as in if this was true.
God Bless,
BVMFatima
He who controls the dialog; usually “wins” the battle:D

These ARE there [unsubstnauated and ungrounded] claims THEREFORE it is UP TO THEM; not us to prove their claims.

IF they still accept the bible:shrug: These passages prove the absolute impossibility ogf there claims. I would not share these until and unless they can and Do provide verifible evidence of their highly self-opinioned claims:)

You can use the site for easy look up of the passages. PLEASE do so in the sequecence given and your case will be be made and verifible. Bible: Revised Standard Version

Mt.10:1-8 God grants and transfers HIS Authority to the deciple= APOSTLES
Mt. 16:15-19 Jesus Hands the Key’s to heavens access to PETER alone which is in Mt. 18-18 extenede to all of the Apostles and in Mt. 28:19-20 to the Successors by absolute necessity to TEACH THE ENTIRE WORLD WHAT I JESUS TAUGHT YOU [singular]
Mt. 28:26-20
Jn.14:16-17

Fulfilled in Jn.20:21-22
**Jn.17:15-*19 **Christ gives Himself [God] as the warranty of ALL Teaching truths on Faith and Morals Issues.

The following verses support God giving His very Own Godly Powers to The Apostles alone and throgh them by necessity of succession tom today’s Pope and the Maiastrium.

Mt. 10:1
Mt. 16:18-19
Mt.28:18-19
Jn.14: 16-17 [filled in Jn. 20:21-22]
Jn.20:21-*23
Jn.17: 18

IF they don’t accept this; all you can and ought to do [IMO] is pray for their souls!

God Bless,

Pat
 
The sedevacant theory is that a pope cannot be heretic: Then they look at the current pope and his heretic (or better they claim it is heretic) statement(for example vat2), the result is:
so this pope must be a antipope.
But the theory that a pope cannot be heretic is a misinterpretation of infallibly: for example pope Honorius I has always been seen as a true pope, although he was heretic:
Third Council of Constantinople:
Acts of the Thirteenth Session of the Council:
“And with these we define that there shall be expelled from the holy Church of God and anathematized Honorius who was some time Pope of Old Rome, because of what we found written by him to [Patriarch] Sergius, that in all respects he followed his view and confirmed his impious doctrines.”
Sixteenth Session:
“To Theodore of Pharan, the heretic, anathema! To Sergius, the heretic, anathema! To Cyrus, the heretic, anathema! To Honorius, the heretic, anathema! To Pyrrhus, the heretic, anathema!”
 
Today I was in a conversation with Sedevacantists who claimed the modern day Roman Catholic Church is in a great apostasy because it was supposely taken over by freemasons at Vatican II. They also claimed that the Pope is an “anti pope” and that the thrid secret of Fatima warned the Church would fall. I was wondering, how do I respond to such nonsense? Please help, because this kind of makes me want to leave the Church due to fear as in if this was true.

God Bless,
BVMFatima
You respond by rolling your eyes and smiling at the utter lunacy of such an argument. Then you pray for the people who believe such awful nonsense.

I wonder whose work it is to separate devout people from the Church by causing them to believe it is in a state of apostasy? Certainly not God’s work. Bitter frightened angry people who cling to one another in dark isolation. Sad. Pray for them.
 
=Boy Wonder;10201693]You respond by rolling your eyes and smiling at the utter lunacy of such an argument. Then you pray for the people who believe such awful nonsense.
I wonder whose work it is to separate devout people from the Church by causing them to believe it is in a state of apostasy? Certainly not God’s work. Bitter frightened angry people who cling to one another in dark isolation. Sad. Pray for them.
I agree “BW”;

With charity *; then give the attention and time this position deservers. Darn little.:o

Either God lied;
was uniformed;
the bible is wrong
or they are
🙂

Matthew 16:18-19 "And I [God who AM Perfect] say to thee: That thou art Peter; [MY choice to lead “My {singular} chirch” and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I [God] will give to thee [YOU and You alone] the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven"
 
Thanks for your answers! I was also told from the Sedevacantists that Pope Paul VI changed the name Roman Catholic to Latin Rite because he felt Rome was full of smoke of the devil :rolleyes:
 
From yesterday’s daily mass reading (first Letter of Saint John, Chapter 2): “Beloved: Who is the liar?** Whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Whoever denies the Father and the Son, this is the antichrist.** Anyone who denies the Son does not have the Father, but whoever confesses the Son has the Father as well.”

I guess that would not fit Pope Benedict- they will have to find another to charge with being the antichrist. 🙂
 
From yesterday’s daily mass reading (first Letter of Saint John, Chapter 2): “Beloved: Who is the liar?** Whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Whoever denies the Father and the Son, this is the antichrist.** Anyone who denies the Son does not have the Father, but whoever confesses the Son has the Father as well.”

I guess that would not fit Pope Benedict- they will have to find another to charge with being the antichrist. 🙂
👍
 
The basis for Sedevacantists is that after V2 the Church went so far astray it nearly destroyed the Church. Look at all the things that happened around that time-- contraceptive use increased, the cover up for the sex abuse scandal started, droves of people left the Church due to increased liberalism, and now we’re stuck with the old hippie priests and nuns who want “equality” and all this other rubbish. Sedes are still faithful to the Holy See.

I for one, sympathize with them. I didn’t become a Catholic to be part of a lukewarm faith where a Mass is like a social hour around a water cooler.
 
The basis for Sedevacantists is that after V2 the Church went so far astray it nearly destroyed the Church. Look at all the things that happened around that time-- contraceptive use increased, the cover up for the sex abuse scandal started, droves of people left the Church due to increased liberalism, and now we’re stuck with the old hippie priests and nuns who want “equality” and all this other rubbish. Sedes are still faithful to the Holy See.

I for one, sympathize with them. I didn’t become a Catholic to be part of a lukewarm faith where a Mass is like a social hour around a water cooler.
So you are a sedevacantist? That explains the rubbish you are spewing. Evil and sin did not start with Vatican 2. Try the Fall.

Nothing wrong with equality. Christ preached and lived it.

You have insulted most Catholics by your statement of how we see the Mass.

Sedes are not faithful to the Holy See.
 
Today I was in a conversation with Sedevacantists who claimed the modern day Roman Catholic Church is in a great apostasy because it was supposely taken over by freemasons at Vatican II. They also claimed that the Pope is an “anti pope” and that the thrid secret of Fatima warned the Church would fall. I was wondering, how do I respond to such nonsense? Please help, because this kind of makes me want to leave the Church due to fear as in if this was true.

God Bless,
BVMFatima
A non-response to nonsense is a perfectly acceptable. Some ideas are just not worth addressing.
 
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