I have concluded that converts. . .

[stanmaxkolbe]

Even though I was baptized into the Catholic Church when I was three weeks old. I never had any Church teachings. So I guess I consider myself a convert. I converted from secularism to Catholicism it was a fifteen year journey for me.

What first drawn me to the Catholic Church was reading secular history, I thought well I might as well study the original Church founded by Christ.

As I stated in post 26 I’ve learn so much from converts. I’ve also learned much from cradle Catholics. From my experience it seems like converts are more fired up.

Then you have cradle Catholics like Fr. Mitch Pacwa that are fired up.

I disagree that cradle Catholics are the best for RCIA I say we need both.

 

[BlestOne]

For the most part I agree… but I kind of think I would do a good job too and I am a cradle Catholic. I think the main thing is to have a great thirst for learning and an even greater love for God and his Church.

 

[Hastrman]

…taste like chicken.

Sorry, couldn’t resist finishing the sentence with something bizarre.

Anyway, I am not one to prejudge people. Anyone who actually knows the faith, including its formal philosophical basis, could make a good RCIA instructor. If you don’t know the philosophy, you will never be able to teach the faith to anyone who does know philosophy, and you may drive them away.

 

[starling]

“Fired up” may not be what you really want in an RCIA instructor. Sure, motivated and interesting, but fired up is usually what people are when they are new or recent converts to any religion… or any cause, for that matter. It takes a little while to mature in the Faith. Some of you may find this hard to believe, but it’s not really part of the Catholic tradition to be fired-up. It smacks of fundamentalism, and it probably turns more people off than it turns on. It’s just silly and childish, and not in keeping with the cerebral and philosophical underpinnings of Catholicism.

 

[Brian_C]

All charity considered, that has to be the **snobbiest **thing anyone has even said to me in a religious context. Quite honestly, I don’t know how to respond or even if I should-your post is pretty self-explanitory and enlightening.

You’re equating religious zeal with low intelligence, immaturity, and farce?

 

[NewGuyInChurch]

“Fired up” may not be what you really want in an RCIA instructor. Sure, motivated and interesting, but fired up is usually what people are when they are new or recent converts to any religion… or any cause, for that matter. It takes a little while to mature in the Faith. Some of you may find this hard to believe, but it’s not really part of the Catholic tradition to be fired-up. It smacks of fundamentalism, and it probably turns more people off than it turns on. It’s just silly and childish, and not in keeping with the cerebral and philosophical underpinnings of Catholicism.

I think it’s very sad that you’ve lost so much of your enthusiasm for God that you feel the need to insult and belittle those who are excited about their faith in Christ.

 

[Hastrman]

I think it’s very sad that you’ve lost so much of your enthusiasm for God that you feel the need to insult and belittle those who are excited about their faith in Christ.

Amen.

I’m enthusiastic about my faith, and I’m also very well-versed in Thomistic philosophy–the “cerebral and philosophical underpinnings of Catholicism”.

Jansenism’s a heresy, starling, did you know?

 

[starling]

It’s no more insulting than the constant and mostly unchallenged implications in these forums that “cradle catholics” are somehow deficient and don’t know their Faith, just because they may not seem in agreement with an extremely narrow definition of what that Faith is.

 

[Brian_C]

So you perceive that as license for you to be as uncharitable as you feel? You’re right, I don’t want to know YOUR definition of the FAITH.

So…if you have such a view (some might call it narrow) of converts, do you believe they should be allowed in? You know, if they never actually adopt what YOU perceive as true Catholicism…what’s the point? Why have RCIA, just for the folks who aren’t up to date on their sacraments?

It’s no more insulting than the constant and mostly unchallenged implications in these forums that “cradle catholics” are somehow deficient and don’t know their Faith, just because they may not seem in agreement with an extremely narrow definition of what that Faith is.

 

[starling]

I don’t think I said anything uncharitable. However, I do suggest that recent converts live as Catholics for a while before assuming that they know more than anyone else based only on completion of RCIA. I’m also not so foolish as to generalize that all converts have this attitude.

 

[Brian_C]

Yes, you’ve equivocated religious zeal with some sort of low-brow mentality. Need I remind you you happen to be posting on the website of a rather famous convert.

Carl wrote a rather relevant e-letter on this attitude some “cradles” have regarding the zeal of the new apologists.:

catholic.com/newsletters/kke_040217.asp

I suggest you read it and take it to heart. Don’t worry. It’s not too long an article for “cerebral” types.

 

[Jennifer_J]

I don’t think I said anything uncharitable. However, I do suggest that recent converts live as Catholics for a while before assuming that they know more than anyone else based only on completion of RCIA. I’m also not so foolish as to generalize that all converts have this attitude.

Actually you did say several uncharitable things about converts… for instance that they never really become Catholic and only pretend they are and don’t progress farther than quoting scripture. (I am paraphrasing, but look above to your first and second posting). Give me a break. As a convert, I knew nothing about the Catholic faith and basically started from the beginning. Of course I knew about Jesus and his teachings, how to find the chapter and verse in the bible and could quote a few psalms and verses (not many, not my strength). My RCIA program was weak at best and it took A LOT of individual study on my part to come to understand anything. I don’t know that my experience is unique, but I won’t speak for other converts. However, without the support of those ‘cradle’ Catholics around me, I might never have struggled through. I think for a balanced program you need BOTH! However, they BOTH need a strong foundation in what the Church teaches and the ability to explain it to those from various backgrounds. To exclude one thinking the other is superior is just plain silly and shortsighted.

Jennifer

 

[jmcrae]

I don’t think I said anything uncharitable. However, I do suggest that recent converts live as Catholics for a while before assuming that they know more than anyone else based only on completion of RCIA. I’m also not so foolish as to generalize that all converts have this attitude.

When we ask converts to serve in positions of leadership in the parish, there are a variety of factors in play.

1. The fact that these vacancies exist. Cradle Catholics who don’t want “them durn converts” to “take over” need to start picking up the slack. That means, pick up the phone, call the Church office, and ask them how you can help. (This is what your convert brothers and sisters are doing, by the way - there aren’t any “parish volunteer recruiters” out there contacting the converts and giving them all the fun jobs, while leaving you out.)
2. Converts know that in order to stay energized and be able to stick with the Catholic faith, they need to get involved and start getting to know people. The easiest way to do that is to volunteer for something.
3. They often choose RCIA because it’s something they already know something about. They’ve been part of it before, they have some idea how it works, and they have some new ideas.
4. The majority of converts are fully aware of the fact that they don’t know it all, or even most of it - they know that they’re lucky they know some of it. In my experience, even in cases where converts do start off thinking they know it all, after about six months of fielding questions in RCIA Inquiry, they are fully aware of their inadequacies. But they don’t let their own lack of knowledge stop them from doing their best, and they view it as an opportunity to learn something new, instead of thinking, “Well, I don’t know enough, so I can’t do this.” After all, being wrong about something and then learning a whole bunch of new things is how they got to be converts, in the first place.

 

[Brian_C]

Yep, I can say it energized me! Even if that is un-Catholic…

For me, it was a feeling of gratitude to God for showing me to full communion with the Church. I just want to give back! I attend a rather large parish so there are plenty of opportunities to give back…if you look for them! No one has seemed to mind, yet.

 

[starling]

Are you suggesting you have to be stupid to be a good Catholic? I hope not.

 

[starling]

Doesn’t it strike you as a little odd that, as evidenced on these forums, so many people make a deliberate, adult-age decision to become Catholics, presumably because they are attracted to the Church somehow, and then they proceed to complain that what they are thought at RCIA isn’t Catholic enough, that existing, mostly “cradle” Catholics who have been Catholic all their lives don’t know their own Faith (despite being raised in Catholic cultures that go back centuries and even a couple of millenia), or that they immediately start advocating for pre-Vatican II “traditions” as they perceive (or mis-perceive them), masses in Latin, tattle to the Bishop or the Vatican about whatever perceived abuse their parish Priest committed, etc.

Has it not occurred to you that perhaps you are too new to fully understand the Church in its entirety?

It begs the question, if you don’t like the Church as it really is today, why did you join it in the first place? Did you join some imaginary fundamentalist Church based on whatever you read on the internet or watched on TV, and then found that it wasn’t fundamentalist enough for you?

 

[Brian_C]

What converts don’t like are the mixed signals of what is orthodox and what isn’t. They see one set of rules coming down from the Holy See and another employeed by many American priests and to a lesser extint, bishops. How mature in the Catholic Faith do you have to be to understand that you don’t have to faithfully practice it?

People complain on forums b/c that’s what people do on forums. Converts, reverts, cradle Catholics-they all do. Please don’t imply that it is only converts that bring up these issues. With regard to “cradle Catholics” not knowing their own faith, no one can seriously argue that is a blanket condition. But it is apparently enough of an issue that the USCCB, the Vatican, and any number of “cradle” Catholics have complained about it. I can’t tell you how many RCIA sponsors I’ve met who proclaim how much THEY learned about their faith from the classes. I also (in as humble a manner as possible) would point out I’ve had countless “cradle Catholics” come up to me and tell me how much I and other converts reinvigorate them and their personal faith. That’s a long way from “You people just stay away.”

You’re posts indicate, however, that you just have some hang up on converts.

 

[homewardbound]

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with either cradle Catholics or converts teaching RCIA, though those Catholics who are on the verge of paganism should be thrown out! I quit my RCIA class this year due to the fact that the leader thought it just fine to pray to flowers and such. Also, mass is a time of community and people and not about prayer and worship!

Ugh.

I live next door to this parish, but I’m looking elsewhere for a Church that is actually following God, so I can join the Church correctly with people who are Catholic through and through.

Also, it would be great to have a teacher that is “fired up”! Always remember, nothing in the world could be better than knowing God’s truth! I don’t think I’ll ever not be excited about that.

 

[Brian_C]

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with either cradle Catholics or converts teaching RCIA, though those Catholics who are on the verge of paganism should be thrown out! I quit my RCIA class this year due to the fact that the leader thought it just fine to pray to flowers and such. Also, mass is a time of community and people and not about prayer and worship!

Ugh.

I live next door to this parish, but I’m looking elsewhere for a Church that is actually following God, so I can join the Church correctly with people who are Catholic through and through.

Also, it would be great to have a teacher that is “fired up”! Always remember, nothing in the world could be better than knowing God’s truth! I don’t think I’ll ever not be excited about that.

Silly you! Didn’t you know you were supposed to accept the fact that it’s okay to pray to flowers because you were told so by a “cradle” Catholic who knows more than you!

 

[Fidelis]

Yes, you’ve equivocated religious zeal with some sort of low-brow mentality. Need I remind you you happen to be posting on the website of a rather famous convert.

Carl wrote a rather relevant e-letter on this attitude

Correction: Karl Keating is not a convert, but a cradle Catholic.