I have found the last straw

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I’m really amazed at just how many people are ignorant of Church teachings…both in an overly liberal and overly conservative way.

A lot of people give out truly awful and incorrect advice that are completely against Church teachings.

I’ve had people message me and tell me I should use an IUD because it’s the “right thing to do” in my situation.

Now I see people claim that using the pill for medical reasons means you have to abstain from marital relations entirely.

No, it’s the couples choice to abstain…not Catholic teaching.
 
Here is a copy/paste of a my reply to another like thread. It applies here as well:

It’s easy for those who enjoy good health to say what they would do in a hypothetical situation. Following through to the bitter death is quite another.

You may say now that you’d abstain, but would you cease marital relations for 20-25 YEARS for your “cause?” When that is literally the only option available to you? Especially when the Church allows otherwise? I tried, I failed. I can’t be crucified to that cross. And thank God the Church isn’t making me!
 
Kelfa28 said:
I’m really amazed at just how many people are ignorant of Church teachings…both in an overly liberal and overly conservative way.

A lot of people give out truly awful and incorrect advice that are completely against Church teachings.

I’ve had people message me and tell me I should use an IUD because it’s the “right thing to do” in my situation.

Now I see people claim that using the pill for medical reasons means you have to abstain from marital relations entirely.

No, it’s the couples choice to abstain…not Catholic teaching.
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Thanks Kelfa! :hug3:
 
You must do what’s best for your health. Praying for you.
 
Many prayers for you, Convert. I’m glad you seem to be making progress!
 
The use of the pill for medical reasons may cause an UNintended miscarriage. Women often have unintended miscarriages—sometimes without even knowing it. It is only miscarriages that are INTENDED that the Church considers immoral. The Church never allows the pill to be used as an abortifacient. But it does allow the use of the pill for medical reasons with the possiblity of producing an unintended miscarriage—without obliging the couple to abstain from sexual relations during that time.

Father is wrong here. You don’t put your child in the way of danger for any reason.
 
sherimarie said:
The use of the pill for medical reasons may cause an UNintended miscarriage. Women often have unintended miscarriages—sometimes without even knowing it. It is only miscarriages that are INTENDED that the Church considers immoral. The Church never allows the pill to be used as an abortifacient. But it does allow the use of the pill for medical reasons with the possiblity of producing an unintended miscarriage—without obliging the couple to abstain from sexual relations during that time.

Father is wrong here. You don’t put your child in the way of danger for any reason.
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You’re out of line with Church teaching here and you’re getting very close to harassing the OP.

Also, the OP is barely fertile at all because of her condition (only one unsuccessful pregnancy in many years of trying). The conventional course of treatment may represent her only hope of restoring or preserving fertility and perhaps someday having a baby of her own.
 
Xantippe said:
**You’re out of line with Church teaching here and you’re getting very close to harassing the OP.**Also, the OP is barely fertile at all because of her condition (only one unsuccessful pregnancy in many years of trying). The conventional course of treatment may represent her only hope of restoring or preserving fertility and perhaps someday having a baby of her own.
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Yes.
It would be lovely and indeed, given her health history nothing short of miraculous if she were to conceive at all. Posting history. It’s worth a look. :rolleyes:
 
Forgive me, it’s futile to do the dueling quotes thing. The Church could be a little more clear here I suppose. I always thought it was obvious to stay away from the pill and other poisons, but maybe it could be stated more clearly.

Just use your common sense- forget everything, but instinct- Do you EVER put your child in danger? No. It’s that easy. And that hard. I hope you can find a better way.
 
sherimarie said:
Forgive me, it’s futile to do the dueling quotes thing. The Church could be a little more clear here I suppose. I always thought it was obvious to stay away from the pill and other poisons, but maybe it could be stated more clearly.

Just use your common sense- forget everything, but instinct- Do you EVER put your child in danger? No. It’s that easy. And that hard. I hope you can find a better way.
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The Church is pretty clear.
If you go swimming, do you endanger your unborn child, not being clairvoyant to know that you might ingest pool chemicals accidentally?
Is such a person culpable for a child who might not even be conceived in the first place?
Come on.
The Church is clear. Medical treatment is medical treatment. Contraception is contraception.
They are not one and the same.
If you would read her story in its entirety, you would know that she has exhausted every option. This is a last resort effort. At LIFE, I might add.
 
sherimarie said:
Forgive me, it’s futile to do the dueling quotes thing. The Church could be a little more clear here I suppose. I always thought it was obvious to stay away from the pill and other poisons, but maybe it could be stated more clearly.

Just use your common sense- forget everything, but instinct- Do you EVER put your child in danger? No. It’s that easy. And that hard. I hope you can find a better way.
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You need to be very careful here. You are making statements that are not in line with the Church’s teaching and, as a previous poster said, getting very close to harassment of a woman who is at the end of her rope with her illness.
 
pianistclare said:
The Church is pretty clear.
If you go swimming, do you endanger your unborn child, not being clairvoyant to know that you might ingest pool chemicals accidentally?
Is such a person culpable for a child who might not even be conceived in the first place?
Come on.
The Church is clear. Medical treatment is medical treatment. Contraception is contraception.
They are not one and the same.
If you would read her story in its entirety, you would know that she has exhausted every option. This is a last resort effort. At LIFE, I might add.
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Pool chemicals? As far as I know, going swimming is perfectly safe if your pregnant. YOU don’t have to be "clairvoyant " to know that. But the pill does kill babies and all you have to do to know that is read the pill insert.

I agree medical treatment does not equal contraception!

I know she is doing this with the best possible motives. I’m glad she is seeking care for her ailments, if she truly thinks the BCP is her best bet than God help her, but it would be wrong headed to let her go on thinking that she can have sex at the same time and thus put any child that would come into the situation in danger.
 
sherimarie said:
Pool chemicals? As far as I know, going swimming is perfectly safe if your pregnant. YOU don’t have to be "clairvoyant " to know that. But the pill does kill babies and all you have to do to know that is read the pill insert.

I agree medical treatment does not equal contraception!

I know she is doing this with the best possible motives. I’m glad she is seeking care for her ailments, if she truly thinks the BCP is her best bet than God help her, but it would be wrong headed to let her go on thinking that she can have sex at the same time and thus put any child that would come into the situation in danger.
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Pope Paul VI, speaking in Humanae Vitae, said that hormonal treatment of medical conditions is entirely acceptable morally, even if in doing so it may have contraceptive affects. It wouldn’t have contraceptive affects if the couple were abstaining entirely. In Catholic tradition, can you cite a higher source than *Humanae Vitae *for your position?
 
sherimarie said:
Pool chemicals? As far as I know, going swimming is perfectly safe if your pregnant. YOU don’t have to be "clairvoyant " to know that. But the pill does kill babies and all you have to do to know that is read the pill insert.

I agree medical treatment does not equal contraception!

I know she is doing this with the best possible motives. I’m glad she is seeking care for her ailments, if she truly thinks the BCP is her best bet than God help her, but it would be wrong headed to let her go on thinking that she can have sex at the same time and thus put any child that would come into the situation in danger.
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That is your opinion.

This is the answer from Fr Serpa, who I would venture to say, is more knowledgeable than you about Church teaching on such issues: forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=52560&postcount=2
 
UbiCaritas said:
Pope Paul VI, speaking in Humanae Vitae, said that hormonal treatment of medical conditions is entirely acceptable morally, even if in doing so it may have contraceptive affects. It wouldn’t have contraceptive affects if the couple were abstaining entirely. In Catholic tradition, can you cite a higher source than *Humanae Vitae *for your position?
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He did not mean “You can use the pill but only i your sick and you don’t intend the abortion” IF he had meant that, then don’t you think the media would have picked up on it at the time?

What that means is you are not REQUIRED to be pregnant all the time.Every sexual act does not HAVE to result in a pregnancy. And if a treatment were to render you temperarely infertile then it may be justified. Like radiation for cancer treatments.
 
UbiCaritas said:
Pope Paul VI, speaking in Humanae Vitae, said that hormonal treatment of medical conditions is entirely acceptable morally, even if in doing so it may have contraceptive affects. It wouldn’t have contraceptive affects if the couple were abstaining entirely. In Catholic tradition, can you cite a higher source than *Humanae Vitae *for your position?
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That is true and a very good catch.
 
sherimarie said:
He did not mean “You can use the pill but only i your sick and you don’t intend the abortion” IF he had meant that, then don’t you think the media would have picked up on it at the time?

What that means is you are not REQUIRED to be pregnant all the time.Every sexual act does not HAVE to result in a pregnancy. And if a treatment were to render you temperarely infertile then it may be justified. Like radiation for cancer treatments.
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  1. The media tends not to be very nuanced in its treatment of Catholic morals. So, you need to look elsewhere for detailed explanations of Catholic treatment of “hard cases.”
  2. It’s not just temporary infertility that is acceptable–a Catholic woman can have a hysterectomy in the pursuit of treatment of an illness.
  3. The pill does create only temporary infertility.
 
Xantippe said:
  1. The media tends not to be very nuanced in its treatment of Catholic morals. So, you need to look elsewhere for detailed explanations of Catholic treatment of “hard cases.”
  2. It’s not just temporary infertility that is acceptable–a Catholic woman can have a hysterectomy in the pursuit of treatment of an illness.
  3. The pill does create only temporary infertility.
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  1. That’s my point, if the media got the idea at all that there was some wiggle room on the pill ruling they would have made some hay with it. It didn’t happen because there was no wiggle room.
  2. Yes, if it is an extreme case (uncontrolled bleeding, cancer etc.) not for a problem with other, better solutions.
  3. The pill also causes abortion. So if you are determined to use it to cure your acne (I know the OP has bigger problems than acne) make sure you don’t have sex while it is in your system.
 
sherimarie said:
reply
  1. That’s my point, if the media got the idea at all that there was some wiggle room on the pill ruling they would have made some hay with it. It didn’t happen because there was no wiggle room.
  2. Yes, if it is an extreme case (uncontrolled bleeding, cancer etc.) not for a problem with other, better solutions.
  3. The pill also causes abortion. So if you are determined to use it to cure your acne (I know the OP has bigger problems than acne) make sure you don’t have sex while it is in your system.
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I get really irritated that the bolded part of #3 gets thrown around. I used to consider myself pro-choice, and it’s stuff like those statements that allowed me to continue thinking pro-lifers were stupid for a long, long time (I was a teen and early 20-something who thought I knew everything :p). CAN hormonal contraceptives act as an abortifacient? Yes. That matters. But it’s not their primary mechanism, and that matters too. The primary mechanism is to prevent ovulation. If ovulation does not occur, abortion cannot occur. But you have folks trying to say the above and it makes us sound ignorant and uneducated. The distinction matters. We need to be clear about facts.

Now, if you want to talk about a contraceptive method that only works by causing abortion, you’ve got one - the copper IUD (not all IUDs). But that’s not how it works for hormonal methods.
 
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