I have only two or three years left to live' Pope Francis

[John_Lazarus]

Hoosier Daddy, thanks for the spelling correction…the purpose of an internet forum, for the most part, is to offer up an opinion. That’s my take on the situation and you are free to give a rebuttal. You didn’t mention much of substance to refute my opinion. I don’t know the exact numbers but I would guess that 95% of all popes have died during their respective papacies. So this would be the traditional and I dare say the normal way a pope passes on his reign. In scripture, Jesus said to Peter, and I’m paraphrasing, you are Peter and upon this rock I shall build my Church. Jesus used the singular. Moreover, Jesus didn’t say, you are peter, and you are john, and upon such rocks I build my church.

Succession to the papacy on the death of the incumbent may be traditional, but I do not believe it’s Traditional.

The 1983 Code of Canon Law mentions papal resignation in Canon 332, where it states:

If it happens that the Roman Pontiff resigns his office, it is required for validity that the resignation is made freely and properly manifested but not that it is accepted by anyone.

This corresponds to Canon 221 of the Canon Law of 1917,

If it happens that the Roman Pontiff resigns his office, it is not required for validity that the resignation is accepted by the Cardinals or by anyone else.

…

The Catholic Encyclopedia notes the historically obscure resignations of Pontian (230–235) and Marcellinus (296–308), the historically postulated resignation of Liberius (352–366), and that one (unspecified) catalogue of popes lists John XVIII as resigning office in 1009 and ending his life as a monk.

A full list with details and citations at the Wiki article on papal resignation.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

People bring up JP II but I would point the Pope is more than a figure who gives Mass. It’s a real job that involves running a 1.2 billion member Church. One wonders how much Saint John Paul’s illness effected him in the last years and I have heard talk it did. Pope Benedict saw first hand. It’s a tough job that one should be able to do.

Many popes have died of old age. Older than Francis will be at 80. The Church has always been fine. When you look at the Papacy though eyes that are used to seeing governments and view it as a secular political office then you are correct. When you start seeing it as the Chair of Peter and the Vicar of Christ, then you are mistaken.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I so wonder if the Pope really was joking or if he has “inside” info from God about his death. JPII had access to prophesies about his attempted assassination.

Was he being cheeky, or will the conspiracy theorists seize upon this.

Somebody, but not me, needs to tell him to stop doing interviews on airplanes. Nothing good comes from it.

 

[Joe_5859]

I so wonder if the Pope really was joking or if he has “inside” info from God about his death. JPII had access to prophesies about his attempted assassination.

Was he being cheeky, or will the conspiracy theorists seize upon this.

Somebody, but not me, needs to tell him to stop doing interviews on airplanes. Nothing good comes from it.

I interpret it more as cheekiness. But I guess we’ll know for sure in four years.

I like his interviews.

 

[TypesAndShadows]

We may end up with a situation where the number of living popes outnumber living anti-popes!

And then we can just put them in a room together and solve the anti-pope problem while retaining at least one pope.

 

[J_Peterson]

What is with the comments about anti-popes? We don’t have any anti-popes now. Who are you referring to?

 

[Joe_5859]

What is with the comments about anti-popes? We don’t have any anti-popes now. Who are you referring to?

Google “Pope Michael”. The anti-popes we have now are of no historical significance, but there are some guys out there claiming to be pope.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

What is with the comments about anti-popes? We don’t have any anti-popes now. Who are you referring to?

I think people are just referring to the history of antipopes. Some legitimate popes have been antipopes at one time. Plus, there are several sedevacantist groups who do claim an antipope. There are a “few pretenders to the throne” now.

 

[NeedsMercy]

I certainly hope the Holy Father is well, but the fact of the matter is that he does not always look very well. He often looks tired. He has gained a lot of weight, which could be a heart problem. It could even be a “nerve problem” of which he himself speaks. The article does mention sciatica, which is often exceedingly painful. When one is in chronic pain, it becomes difficult to focus, and depression is often a complication. A person twenty years younger than Francis would have trouble keeping his schedule. It does make one wonder why the College of Cardinals does not vote for younger men…

 

[markomalley]

People who are uncomfortable or dismayed by things said by the Holy Father are probably marking their calendars, but I would not read too much into what seems like a casual remark. Such a statement might even be a kind of coping mechanism. To shoulder such an incredible burden as a pope must, it might help to tell oneself, “Only a little while longer,” and I’m sure he is ready to go whenever God calls him. At the same time, I’ve no doubt he will stay as long as God requires, and a blessing for us as long as he does.

Tempus fugit, memento mori.

 

[christofirst]

Tempus fugit, memento mori.

Amen, frater mi

 

[FollowChrist34]

I certainly hope the Holy Father is well, but the fact of the matter is that he does not always look very well. He often looks tired. He has gained a lot of weight, which could be a heart problem. It could even be a “nerve problem” of which he himself speaks. The article does mention sciatica, which is often exceedingly painful. When one is in chronic pain, it becomes difficult to focus, and depression is often a complication. A person twenty years younger than Francis would have trouble keeping his schedule. It does make one wonder why the College of Cardinals does not vote for younger men…

I kind of wonder if younger candidates are seasoned or proven enough to be able to carry out the position with the necessary wisdom and dignity. That’s a little bit of a secular strategy too - going for the young to avoid this issue. Surely this decision is ultimately with God (Holy Spirit).

I also see the tiredness of the Pope and worry for his health under the strain. And as others have mentioned, if the Pope is not actively, effectively guiding the Church, that can lead to a lot of disorder and manipulation of the system. When the cat’s away…

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I kind of wonder if younger candidates are seasoned or proven enough to be able to carry out the position with the necessary wisdom and dignity. That’s a little bit of a secular strategy too - going for the young to avoid this issue. Surely this decision is ultimately with God (Holy Spirit).

I also see the tiredness of the Pope and worry for his health under the strain. And as others have mentioned, if the Pope is not actively, effectively guiding the Church, that can lead to a lot of disorder and manipulation of the system. When the cat’s away…

Do you have an example of when this might have happened? JPII was ill for some time…

 

[FollowChrist34]

Do you have an example of when this might have happened? JPII was ill for some time…

Yes, I think the irregularities in the Vatican banking system and the pedophile scandals are both really good examples of what happens when the Pope takes his eye off the ball. I personally believe that Pope Emeritus Benedict resigned not only for health reasons but also because he did not feel he had the strength to reform the Church in ways that he knew had to be addressed or to continue to push for a renewal or “New Evangelization” of the Church’s message to the world. I think it was his fervent hope and prayer that the next Pope would continue this work. Pope Francis has done this and if he too reaches a point of exhaustion or poor health, he would likely think along the same lines, for the sake of the Church.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Yes, I think the irregularities in the Vatican banking system and the pedophile scandals are both really good examples of what happens when the Pope takes his eye off the ball. I personally believe that Pope Emeritus Benedict resigned not only for health reasons but also because he did not feel he had the strength to reform the Church in ways that he knew had to be addressed or to continue to push for a renewal or “New Evangelization” of the Church’s message to the world. I think it was his fervent hope and prayer that the next Pope would continue this work. Pope Francis has done this and if he too reaches a point of exhaustion or poor health, he would likely think along the same lines, for the sake of the Church.

Interesting. I think the pedophile scandals happened with a Pope who was young. The light was shed later and even BXVI, a new Pope, has struggled with the scope of the abuses. I think it is quite a misunderstanding of the actual issue and falls into the secular lie that the Church is just led by old men who do not have a grasp on reality. I think that type of thinking while perhaps not exactly what many would say, infects our view of the office of the papacy as we look through it with strictly secular and political eyes.

As for the banking, I would note that misuse of funds and money has been a far worse problem with younger Popes, historically speaking.

I think though your intentions are good and there can be an argument made for your position, that type of thinking (that certain people are too old or sick to be Pope) is exactly what can lead to the curiae problems we are trying to fix.

The pope, as the vicar of Christ and Bishop or Rome is not something that is comparable to a modern democratic political office. It is more than that. In fact the primary purpose of the Pope is not administrative, but pastoral. But (especially) in this country we have moved beyond the priest being a father and more like a CEO… But that is for another thread…